Fitzgerald risking the cardinals near future with a smile on his face

[WildBB]

Bernard Berrian.. Bernard ****ing Berrian... Is asking for 8 million dollars a year... Berrian isn't on the same stratosphere as Fitzgerald talent-wise, let alone in the same breath.

Different position, but Tommy Kelly just signed a 7 year extension at over 50 million.. The same Tommy Kelly who had a whopping 30 tackles and 1 sack last season.

You wonder why Fitz is holding out for high demand megabucks?

The exhorbitant prices in sports, that we are paying premium prices compared to what average Joe makes, has put more pressure than ever to put competitive teams out on the field. So contracts like that to marginal players will continue.

Maybe it's time for fans in NFL cities to organise.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Actually, when Joe broke down the Clements contract, it wasn't nearly as bad as everybody thought. It LOOKED big, but it was structured so that it wasn't that bad and that he wouldn't see a lot of that money.

Exactly. The Niners let Clement sign a contract with incentives. Those incentives would only get reached if Clements played INSANE ball for the years he was a Niner.

Enter Larry Fitzgerald who gets signed to a huge contract. But most of it he will never see because the incentives are almost impossible to reach. Yet, here we are with a player who is so good he has accomplished the "almost impossible" while here at the desert. No one in the organization saw this coming, obviously Rod Graves didn't.

Now instead of rejoicing at the fact we hit the jack pot in a draft with a player we lament it because "he costs too much".

Five years ago people screamed at the sky that the Cardinals never kept good talent around, and were cheap. Now the organization is spending money, and keep good talent around AZ. And the Cardinals are STILL getting bashed. But now it is we sign good talent for too much, and that we should let talent walk out the door so we can sign some average overpaid free agents!!!!!!

That is pure hypocracy right there and leaves the organization in a catch-22. Quite unreasonable and unfair if you ask me.

How bout we forget about Fitzgerald and cut Marcel Shipp and his insance cap number ?

What about Marcel Shipp "taking one for the team" since he is due to make a number WAY more than he has produced ?

 

[WildBB]

"Fitz should bear what the market will bear". That is prevalent in todays world not only in sports but in life. It was not always this way. There are things beyond making 32 mil in two years that will in the end give you lasting satisfaction. It is not like he is poor or is working for his future in case he gets hurt. If he left football next year he would likely have more money than all of us will ever make in our lifetimes. How much is enough. At least Bill Gates gives away billions and billions to worthy causes while we see some of our athletes insisting they be the highest paid player in the NFL. Is there something wrong with this? You dam right there is. It is called GREED. Dam the rest of you and full speed ahead. I come from a military back ground where you counted on people to watch your back. I am not so sure I want some greedy people watching my back. Fitz is the exact opposite of Pat Tillman who was a man's man in spirit and in life.

Exactly, Fitz and all the other glamor boys need to remember that it's other hard working Jo's who are ultimately paying their salaries. And it ain't easy buying $8 beers/brats either. So be realistic.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I can't get over this. You are a Suns fan, No? You think Boris Diaw would be playing like a waif if his contract wasn't guaranteed? How about Jermaine Oneal, Vince Carter, Bobby Simmons, Tim Thomas, Jerome James, Oliver Miller and on and on and on. This is not a "good system" - its an epedimic problem that the NBA would do away with in a second if the players union wasn't so powerful. It KILLS the game.

Now imagine that in the NFL? Trust me the level of play would be no where the same and teams would be all suffocated by dead cap space. Fans would not come out like they do either as no one wants to pay for tickets with half ass play.

I would things like 8 million guaranteed upfront would be more then enough. Then keep in shap and stay hungary if you want to collect the rest. There should be provisions for injuries and such but other then that I LOVE the current system.

I am a Suns fan. They signed that contract in good faith. They should be obliged to pay it. If you and I were to go back on a contract in any other setting but in the NFL, we could get sued. Why should the NFL be any different?

 

[WildBB]

Exactly. The Niners let Clement sign a contract with incentives. Those incentives would only get reached if Clements played INSANE ball for the years he was a Niner.

Enter Larry Fitzgerald who gets signed to a huge contract. But most of it he will never see because the incentives are almost impossible to reach. Yet, here we are with a player who is so good he has accomplished the "almost impossible" while here at the desert. No one in the organization saw this coming, obviously Rod Graves didn't.

Now instead of rejoicing at the fact we hit the jack pot in a draft with a player we lament it because "he costs too much".

Five years ago people screamed at the sky that the Cardinals never kept good talent around, and were cheap. Now the organization is spending money, and keep good talent around AZ. And the Cardinals are STILL getting bashed. But now it is we sign good talent for too much, and that we should let talent walk out the door so we can sign some average overpaid free agents!!!!!!

That is pure hypocracy right there and leaves the organization in a catch-22. Quite unreasonable and unfair if you ask me.

How bout we forget about Fitzgerald and cut Marcel Shipp and his insance cap number ?

What about Marcel Shipp "taking one for the team" since he is due to make a number WAY more than he has produced ?

The thing is , they're offering top $$$$ and they're not budging. It's disgraceful at this point. They should be singing the the FO praises right now IMO, but they're not. Because it's not going to be easy absorbing that deal from the team standpoint competitively.

 

[john h]

The Fitz' situation is NOT about the Cardinals being cheap. Having been a long time fan (40+ years) it's been refreshing to see the Cards step-up in the past few years. (ie; retaining their solid "core" players. ...And even a good coach this year (ie; Haley). These days they seem more than willing to treat their players fairly. If you're an All-Pro you get paid as an All-Pro. ...And continuity is so important to winning.

But getting back to the current state of things in the NFL. Truth is, it saddens me to see what it's become. I miss the days of Jim Hart, Jackie Smith, Terry Metcalf, Roger Wehrli, & Jim Bakken. I never worried about these guys "jumping ship". But "free agency" changed everything. What I see now is the NFL's version of "legalized prostitution". In short, "PAY me and I'll perform for you." I love the game of football, but for me, the "innocence" is gone.

Well put. I was never more a Cardinal fan than when that group represented the Cardinals. Free agency has opened Pandora's box. It has shown how greedy people can be. If I made 4 million dollars in one year I could become very loyal. I could live high on the hog and would try and pick a team in an area I liked, a coach I liked, and make a home for my life. I do not need 15 million a year to make me happy. I cannot imagine being more happy with 15 mil a year than 4 mil a year. How many Hummers do you need? How many million dollar homes do you need? What drives men like a million dollar DB to quit the NFL and join the Special Forces and go to Afghanistan for a few thousand a month? Ted Williams and Lee Marvin joined the military at the height of their careers. They did not wait to be drafted. I never heard them say they wanted to be the highest paid player in baseball or Hollywood. They were not that arrogant. Williams was proud to play for the same teams for a life and will forever be remembered as a Sox hero. Money does not buy that. No matter how good Fitz is he will likely never be able to walk in the shoes of people like this. We have become a nation of me me me me.

 

[Pariah]

Bernard Berrian.. Bernard ****ing Berrian... Is asking for 8 million dollars a year...

And that's a shame, because Berrian would be a nice compliment to Boldin and/or Fitz.

JMHO

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Exactly. The Niners let Clement sign a contract with incentives. Those incentives would only get reached if Clements played INSANE ball for the years he was a Niner.

.... which is exactly why these deals have insane signing bonuses.. To compensate for incentive bonuses that will never be met. You'll either see that or the contract be rediculously front loaded.. Either way, the deals are never what they appear on paper.

Five years ago people screamed at the sky that the Cardinals never kept good talent around, and were cheap. Now the organization is spending money, and keep good talent around AZ. And the Cardinals are STILL getting bashed. But now it is we sign good talent for too much, and that we should let talent walk out the door so we can sign some average overpaid free agents!!!!!!

That is pure hypocracy right there and leaves the organization in a catch-22. Quite unreasonable and unfair if you ask me.

I couldn't agree more...t's almost amazing.. All year, we've heard nothing but non-stop bitching about how cheap and idiotic the Cardinals were for not re-signing Leonard Davis. Now, Fitzgerald, who HAS produced, who has been every bit as good as advertised is up for contract re-negotiation because he met incentives, and everyone's talking about how much of an "cornholio" he is and how the Cardinals are better off without him.. Truly baffles my mind.

 

[chickenhead]

I have no problems with Fitz here. I don't think either side (players/owners) has the high ground when it comes to principle.

I am comfortable with the fact that we may not see Fitz play out his career as a Cardinal, or even the majority of it. As I alluded to in another thread, what I am angry about is the team's inability to resolve this, and the fact that it's limiting an already limited ability to sign or retain free agents.

 

[WildBB]

I have no problems with Fitz here. I don't think either side (players/owners) has the high ground when it comes to principle.

I am comfortable with the fact that we may not see Fitz play out his career as a Cardinal, or even the majority of it. As I alluded to in another thread, what I am angry about is the team's inability to resolve this, and the fact that it's limiting an already limited ability to sign or retain free agents.

The team has steped up. A big offer was made.

 

[Duckjake]

The team has stepped up. A big offer was made.

As I understand it the issue is not money but the length of the contract.

Is that not correct?

 

[slanidrac16]

As I understand it the issue is not money but the length of the contract.

Is that not correct?

Bottom line is we DON"T know. Everything is speculation. Many people here have taken a stance on who is right and who is wrong based on speculation.

 

[Duckjake]

Bottom line is we DON"T know. Everything is speculation. Many people here have taken a stance on who is right and who is wrong based on speculation.

I knew I'd read about the deal being about years more than anything else.

Here's a quote from the AZ Republic.

The two sides remain apart on years and money, according to sources. The Cardinals' original offer was a six-year deal, while Fitzgerald's agent, Eugene Parker, prefers a four-year term. Under Parker's deal, the fourth year included a huge salary, which would force the sides to return to the bargaining table after three years.

Fitzgerald is only 24, so a four-year deal would put him in line for another huge payday while still in his prime.

The Cardinals don't want to pay huge money and be in the same position three years from now, so they rejected Parker's offer, and it is believed that the sides are discussing a five-year deal.

Doesn't look to me like it is Fitzgerald's side that is holding up the deal.

 

[WildBB]

As I understand it the issue is not money but the length of the contract.

Is that not correct?

They've compromised on a five yr. deal from what I've heard. Fitz' agent was demanding a 4 yr. deal. So that's one point.

Skorrp posted this on another thread. The Cardinals are pretty much offering bank to Fitz, making him the third highest paid player in the league, other than the top QB's.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10669535

 

[DaisyCutter]

Exactly. The Niners let Clement sign a contract with incentives. Those incentives would only get reached if Clements played INSANE ball for the years he was a Niner.

Actually, this isn't the case. There aren't any incentives in Clement's "8 year, $80 million" contract. He has $500K workout bonuses every season, but he got a $10 million roster bonus last year (like the Cards gave out for Johnson and Holt and others), and another $10 million "option" bonus this year that acts as a "signing bonus" for cap purposes. The option bonus voids the last two years of the contract (which total over $20 million), and his cap figure doesn't go over $6 million until year four or five.

We all read 8 Years, $80 million, but it's really seven years, $62.02 million, and his cap value doesn't exceed $8 million until 2010. This is why it's hard to do contracts in the NFL.

 

[Captain Matt]

The disdain on this board is unreal. I guess it is easy to forget that these players risk death (albeit small) every snap and are pretty much guaranteed to have some lasting physical effects after the age of 40.

Alright, after I wrote the following and re-read it I see that it is rather harsh, but I really don't feel like it isn't the God's honest truth.

.......................................................................................................................

Ummm..... Firemen risk death. Policemen risk death. My buddies in Iraq are risking death. To say a football player risks death is just freaking silly. Truck drivers and factory workers have a much, much more hazardous job than a football player. To even suggest that they are risking life and limb is silly!!!!!

Ohhhhh and lasting effects..... Any and all WWII/Vietnam/Gulf War vets have some baggage. Some worse than others. Dave Wheat got shot down in his F-4 in 1965. Upon ejection his knee exploded and he destroyed his back. But then he endured 2765 days of torture, starvation, and mental anguish at the Hanoi Hilton. When he finally was released he STAYED IN THE NAVY for another 15 years. I know this because he's my father-in-law. Other friends have paid even higher prices. Look up LT Ed Fassnacht (buddy of mine from Whiting Field) - he died on a training mission (along with his entire crew) off the coast of Texas because of a mechanical failure. Or maybe Pat Tillman! Look up that name! Or the thousands of others who get $40-50,000/year who risk everything everyday.

Man I get pissed whenever we cannonize athletes and sometimes it just isn't worth it, because most of America cares more about what happens on Sunday than they do about the boys and girls getting blwon away in some far off desert. Sure the owners of sports franchises are rolling in it, but to suggest that the $10 million or so a player might make in a career is justified because he's tearing up his body just pisses me off. Please watch "Valley of Elah" or "Jarhead" or "Blackhawk Down" or "the Kingdom" or "Saving Private Ryan" to re-calibrate your mind. Fitz's $30 million over the next 2 years is equal to the salaries of 30 soldiers for the next 22 years. Let me say that another way.... Fitz will make as much in the next 2 years that 30 soldiers will make over their entire 20 year careers. Then when it's all done Larry still has $20 million in the bank (if he's smart) for therapy, a handicap ready home, a nursing staff, house cleaners, cooks, drivers, and etc. Oh, and he also gets his NFL pension, his money from sports casting or a lecture circuit and so on. Meanwhile Lance Corporal got-his-leg-blown-off-in-Iraq and his 29 buddies will get the government pension checks (about enough for a modest mortgage payment), a trip to the VA hospital once a month or so, nightmares and mental problems for the rest of their lives, divorces and etc, AND THE PRIDE THAT ONLY PEOPLE WHO WORE A UNIFORM WILL EVER KNOW.

Is that pride worth a crappy salary and all the baggage that comes with it. Yep, you bet. Every single day. But don't expect me to feel sorry for anyone like Fitz. I like him as a player, I respect him as a person, and I admire the good that he has done with his wealth and influence (he's one of the guys who goes out and spends time with the soldiers and their families in far off places), but I'll never suggest that Larry (or any athlete) deserves the money they get because they risk life and limb. That is just stupid!

Yes he deserves it because it's market value and our society is screwed up to make the market that high. But he absolutely does not deserve it because he risks life and limb. No way. Never. Not in a million years. If he did, then every single boy who set foot in Iraq deserves a check for $15 million. And that isn't ever gonna happen.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Alright, after I wrote the following and re-read it I see that it is rather harsh, but I really don't feel like it isn't the God's honest truth.

.......................................................................................................................

Ummm..... Firemen risk death. Policemen risk death. My buddies in Iraq are risking death. To say a football player risks death is just freaking silly. Truck drivers and factory workers have a much, much more hazardous job than a football player. To even suggest that they are risking life and limb is silly!!!!!

Ohhhhh and lasting effects..... Any and all WWII/Vietnam/Gulf War vets have some baggage. Some worse than others. Dave Wheat got shot down in his F-4 in 1965. Upon ejection his knee exploded and he destroyed his back. But then he endured 2765 days of torture, starvation, and mental anguish at the Hanoi Hilton. When he finally was released he STAYED IN THE NAVY for another 15 years. I know this because he's my father-in-law. Other friends have paid even higher prices. Look up LT Ed Fassnacht (buddy of mine from Whiting Field) - he died on a training mission (along with his entire crew) off the coast of Texas because of a mechanical failure. Or maybe Pat Tillman! Look up that name! Or the thousands of others who get $40-50,000/year who risk everything everyday.

Man I get pissed whenever we cannonize athletes and sometimes it just isn't worth it, because most of America cares more about what happens on Sunday than they do about the boys and girls getting blwon away in some far off desert. Sure the owners of sports franchises are rolling in it, but to suggest that the $10 million or so a player might make in a career is justified because he's tearing up his body just pisses me off. Please watch "Valley of Elah" or "Jarhead" or "Blackhawk Down" or "the Kingdom" or "Saving Private Ryan" to re-calibrate your mind. Fitz's $30 million over the next 2 years is equal to the salaries of 30 soldiers for the next 22 years. Let me say that another way.... Fitz will make as much in the next 2 years that 30 soldiers will make over their entire 20 year careers. Then when it's all done Larry still has $20 million in the bank (if he's smart) for therapy, a handicap ready home, a nursing staff, house cleaners, cooks, drivers, and etc. Oh, and he also gets his NFL pension, his money from sports casting or a lecture circuit and so on. Meanwhile Lance Corporal got-his-leg-blown-off-in-Iraq and his 29 buddies will get the government pension checks (about enough for a modest mortgage payment), a trip to the VA hospital once a month or so, nightmares and mental problems for the rest of their lives, divorces and etc, AND THE PRIDE THAT ONLY PEOPLE WHO WORE A UNIFORM WILL EVER KNOW.

Is that pride worth a crappy salary and all the baggage that comes with it. Yep, you bet. Every single day. But don't expect me to feel sorry for anyone like Fitz. I like him as a player, I respect him as a person, and I admire the good that he has done with his wealth and influence (he's one of the guys who goes out and spends time with the soldiers and their families in far off places), but I'll never suggest that Larry (or any athlete) deserves the money they get because they risk life and limb. That is just stupid!

Yes he deserves it because it's market value and our society is screwed up to make the market that high. But he absolutely does not deserve it because he risks life and limb. No way. Never. Not in a million years. If he did, then every single boy who set foot in Iraq deserves a check for $15 million. And that isn't ever gonna happen.

Just because other professions have a higher risk of death, doesn't mean that football players don't. Look at Kevin Everett.

 

[Shane]

Screw that. Fitz should demand what the market will bear. Any of you who say you wouldnt do the same, be sure to march into your bosses office tomorrow and demand a pay cut.

Why would I do that when Im already underpayed. The market sucks.

 

[Duckjake]

Why would I do that when Im already underpaid. The market sucks.

I thought that depended on where you were. I don't know what our local guys make but APD has cruisers parked on the major highways with huge "now hiring" signs in the front window.

 

[Captain Matt]

Just because other professions have a higher risk of death, doesn't mean that football players don't. Look at Kevin Everett.

Whatever....

Every single night mortar rounds fly over the fence line on (insert camp name here) in Iraq. In one such instance a dud round flew into a tent and hit a soldier in the chest killing him instantly..... the guy was going home in a month.

My point was more to do with the fact that risking life and limb is a weak ass argument. And stupid even to suggest. More teachers have died in the past year from violence than players have died in then entire history of the NFL. Do teachers deserve higher salaries because they risk life and limb. I've nver hgeard that suggested. Maybe they should. Maybe 7-eleven workers should get $15 million a year. A lot of farmers die every year from accidents. Maybe they should get $15 millioon a year. My neighbor, Ted Yontz, was a pilot in Vietnam (escaped without a scratch) then came home and lost his leg in a farming accident. Maybe farming is more dangerous than the military.

Do you see how silly those arguments are?

 

[Captain Matt]

You know what.... never mind. People disagree. If you think football players deserve $$$ cause they risk life and limb, then so be it. I'll respect your opinion. Infact, I'll apologize for calling the suggestion stupid. I disagree vehemently, but it's an opinion and I'm not one to judge the validity of it. It was petty of me to jump down someone's throat because of an opinion.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Whatever....

Every single night mortar rounds fly over the fence line on (insert camp name here) in Iraq. In one such instance a dud round flew into a tent and hit a soldier in the chest killing him instantly..... the guy was going home in a month.

My point was more to do with the fact that risking life and limb is a weak ass argument. And stupid even to suggest. More teachers have died in the past year from violence than players have died in then entire history of the NFL. Do teachers deserve higher salaries because they risk life and limb. I've nver hgeard that suggested. Maybe they should. Maybe 7-eleven workers should get $15 million a year. A lot of farmers die every year from accidents. Maybe they should get $15 millioon a year. My neighbor, Ted Yontz, was a pilot in Vietnam (escaped without a scratch) then came home and lost his leg in a farming accident. Maybe farming is more dangerous than the military.

Do you see how silly those arguments are?

You know what.... never mind. People disagree. If you think football players deserve $$$ cause they risk life and limb, then so be it. I'll respect your opinion. Infact, I'll apologize for calling the suggestion stupid. I disagree vehemently, but it's an opinion and I'm not one to judge the validity of it. It was petty of me to jump down someone's throat because of an opinion.

Again, I have the highest respect for those in public service, but that doesn't mean that football players don't risk their bodies in entertainment.

And yes, I think that football players deserve $$$, if owners make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Oh, and for the record, I don't take much of what gets said about me personally. If I did, my self esteem would be shot by now.

Thanks again for what you do.

 

[WildBB]

You know what.... never mind. People disagree. If you think football players deserve $$$ cause they risk life and limb, then so be it. I'll respect your opinion. Infact, I'll apologize for calling the suggestion stupid. I disagree vehemently, but it's an opinion and I'm not one to judge the validity of it. It was petty of me to jump down someone's throat because of an opinion.

Salute Lieutenant! Big of you to say. Bigger for what you do. Thanks alot. Thank your father-in-law and buddies now. Godspeed.

 

[Captain Matt]

I just thought it was a weak argument. Yes, they deserve cash cause the owners make carzy cash (didn't I already say this?), but the life and limb stuff seemed very, very weak.

 

[Captain Matt]

Thanks BB.