Fitzgerald says his role limits his production

ajcardfan

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How is it the Fitzgerald is never fast enough yet last year I saw him take a slant to the house ?


If this was such a big deal to Fitzgerald why would he stay with the Cardinals when he has the opportunity to play anywhere he wants.


This is a mountain out of a mole hill. Guy has never said anything that would make a person believe he is a "me" player, and does everything asked of him by the coaching staffs he has had over his career.

Yet, haters are going to hate.

Exactly. If all he cared about at this point was stats he'd be a Patriot now.

Imagine if Fitz had pulled the stuff Boldin did, before and after he left the Cards. He would be far more hated than Boldin is, and it makes no sense to me.
 
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ajcardfan

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1) Money
2) Stats
3) Hall of Fame Candidacy
4) Winning football games

He wouldn't be making as little as you probably say he would. And I think it would almost a unanimous opinion across the NFL that 2-4 he would be much better off in NE.
 

kerouac9

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He wouldn't be making as little as you probably say he would. And I think it would almost a unanimous opinion across the NFL that 2-4 he would be much better off in NE.

Is Andre Johnson a rough equivalent to Larry Fitzgerald? Let's say yes.

Andre Johnson was not look at by the New England Patriots following his release.
Andre Johnson only got $10M guaranteed from the Indianapolis Colts.

The foundational understandings that Fitz would've played for $6M a year for New England to chase a ring or something are completely and utterly without basis. The foundational understanding that Fitz was worth anything approaching the $22M fully guaranteed that he got from the Cards for 31 other NFL teams is ridiculous.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Because the Cards paid him 50% more than he would've gotten anywhere on the open market, without the stain of having been released?

OK.

So he is getting paid to do said job, and do the job he does.

What is the problem ? Are we, as fans, worried about his stats ?

He certainly is not, he just came out and said not to expect 1000 yard season from him.
 

RugbyMuffin

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1) Money
2) Stats
3) Hall of Fame Candidacy
4) Winning football games

Based on what ?

That is a little presumptuous, isn't it.

Not to mention if that is the case, it is the case with a vast majority of athletes.
 

kerouac9

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Based on what ?

That is a little presumptuous, isn't it.

Not to mention if that is the case, it is the case with a vast majority of athletes.

Based on his decision-making. I agree that it's the case with the vast majority of athletes. I'm just putting Fitz with that group. If you think he's exceptional for some reason, tell me how, and then back it up with some evidence.
 

ajcardfan

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Is Andre Johnson a rough equivalent to Larry Fitzgerald? Let's say yes.

Andre Johnson was not look at by the New England Patriots following his release.
Andre Johnson only got $10M guaranteed from the Indianapolis Colts.

The foundational understandings that Fitz would've played for $6M a year for New England to chase a ring or something are completely and utterly without basis. The foundational understanding that Fitz was worth anything approaching the $22M fully guaranteed that he got from the Cards for 31 other NFL teams is ridiculous.

These judgments don't change the fact that you just stated an opinion which isn't worth more than anyone else's .02 cents.

Besides, 10 million is hardly chump change.
 

kerouac9

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These judgments don't change the fact that you just stated an opinion which isn't worth more than anyone else's .02 cents.

Besides, 10 million is hardly chump change.

Stated an opinion backed up by more than wishful thinking.

$10M is less than half of the $22M that Fitz got from the Cards. C'mon.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Based on his decision-making. I agree that it's the case with the vast majority of athletes. I'm just putting Fitz with that group. If you think he's exceptional for some reason, tell me how, and then back it up with some evidence.

Can I come up with reasons based on his actions ?

One can say he is a team player, and does the job he is paid to do with little to no complaints.

I really cannot remember a time Fitzgerald has ever complained about his touches over wins in a public forum. I may have forgotten when it happened but a better face of the franchise you would be hard pressed to find in my opinion. I can say that based on his actions.

Yet, does this separate him from other athletes......not really sure, and don't really expect that out of him. As a fan I couldn't ask more from Fitzgerald. Its a business so making his money is par for the course.

There had been plenty of athletes that make big money and still are a pain in the butt, and publically throw hissy fits on the field and off of it when it comes to yards, and what not.

In reference to the topic, I do not care about Fitzgerald's stats. The guy catches just about anything you throw at him, and I think his role for this team is perfect.
 
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ajcardfan

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Stated an opinion backed up by more than wishful thinking.

$10M is less than half of the $22M that Fitz got from the Cards. C'mon.

"wishful thinking"? Nope, just an opinion. I can't get too wishful about the unknowable. We do know he's here, and the reason he is doesn't really matter anymore.
 

oaken1

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How is it the Fitzgerald is never fast enough yet last year I saw him take a slant to the house ?

If this was such a big deal to Fitzgerald why would he stay with the Cardinals when he has the opportunity to play anywhere he wants.

This is a mountain out of a mole hill. Guy has never said anything that would make a person believe he is a "me" player, and does everything asked of him by the coaching staffs he has had over his career.

Yet, haters are going to hate.



not hatin'....and never said he was a "me" player.

he took one to the house because....... it happens.

Larry has never been fast,...what one would call a "speed receiver"....... if he were...he would be behind the defense BEFORE he catches the ball.....
he does however play faster after he catches the ball,...as many players do.
 

oaken1

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Can I come up with reasons based on his actions ?

One can say he is a team player, and does the job he is paid to do with little to no complaints.

I really cannot remember a time Fitzgerald has ever complained about his touches over wins in a public forum. I may have forgotten when it happened but a better face of the franchise you would be hard pressed to find in my opinion. I can say that based on his actions.

Yet, does this separate him from other athletes......not really sure, and don't really expect that out of him. As a fan I couldn't ask more from Fitzgerald. Its a business so making his money is par for the course.

There had been plenty of athletes that make big money and still are a pain in the butt, and publically throw hissy fits on the field and off of it when it comes to yards, and what not.

In reference to the topic, I do not care about Fitzgerald's stats. The guy catches just about anything you throw at him, and I think his role for this team is perfect.



case in point:

last season in a postgame interview Larry was asked about his reduced roll and how he had so few catches...
Larry said,..(paraphrased) "Those are champagne problems so I aint even gonna worry about that,..the team is winning and that is what we have to be excited about"

don't remember the exact words,...but I do remember being very impressed when I saw that.
Larry is a good dude, great face of the franchise, and has some of the best hands football has ever seen................. he just aint blazing fast...
 

wa52lz

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What's new to me is the utter lack of personal responsibility in his production. Sorry, big guy, but you weren't running a ton of deep routes with Kevin Kolb and John Skelton in 2011. You still managed to get 1400 yards and 8 TDs.

Your job is to make as much out of every opportunity that you can. **** and play football.
You sure about that? 2011 his Y/R was a career high 17.6, in 12 of the 16 games his longest reception was 25+ yds, including 34, 73, 47, 31, 66, 42, 41, 53 (also had a 46 yd TD this game), 32, 39 and 41. I know its only anecdotal evidence, who knows maybe that was all YAC? Here is something I found that show's he had the 2nd most number of 20+ yard passes thrown to him in 2011.

Looking at the receiving breakdown by distance (from Pro Football Focus), it looks like a big part of the year-to-year variability is from what Fitzgerald did on deep passes (20+ yards downfield):
2008: 12/18 for 456 yards
2009: 3/20 for 87 yards
2010: 9/37 for 254 yards
2011: 14/34 for 496 yards
2012: 2/26 for 61 yards
 

RugbyMuffin

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case in point:

last season in a postgame interview Larry was asked about his reduced roll and how he had so few catches...
Larry said,..(paraphrased) "Those are champagne problems so I aint even gonna worry about that,..the team is winning and that is what we have to be excited about"

don't remember the exact words,...but I do remember being very impressed when I saw that.
Larry is a good dude, great face of the franchise, and has some of the best hands football has ever seen................. he just aint blazing fast...

On that, I agree. I think Larry Fitzgerald is fast enough to take it to the house given the opportunity.

Now is he "NFL Fast" ? No, not even close.

NFL fast is guys like Deon Sanders, Jamaal Charles, Devin Hester, DRC, and Eric Dickerson.

Yeah, NFL fast is just ridiculous, those guys are so dangerous because of speed that is just at another level. Jamaal Charles in his prime was so flippin' fast, it was a joke. He still is fast, but not like he was in the prime of his career.
 

kerouac9

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You sure about that? 2011 his Y/R was a career high 17.6, in 12 of the 16 games his longest reception was 25+ yds, including 34, 73, 47, 31, 66, 42, 41, 53 (also had a 46 yd TD this game), 32, 39 and 41. I know its only anecdotal evidence, who knows maybe that was all YAC? Here is something I found that show's he had the 2nd most number of 20+ yard passes thrown to him in 2011.

Looking at the receiving breakdown by distance (from Pro Football Focus), it looks like a big part of the year-to-year variability is from what Fitzgerald did on deep passes (20+ yards downfield):
2008: 12/18 for 456 yards
2009: 3/20 for 87 yards
2010: 9/37 for 254 yards
2011: 14/34 for 496 yards
2012: 2/26 for 61 yards

The challenge is that those big plays don't screen out the big runs after the catch; they include them.

Hard to get YAC data based on season: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch/year/2011

Fitz was 12th in the NFL in total YAC yards in 2011. 493 yards on 80 receptions is 6.16 average YAC. 17.6 YPC. 35% of Fitz's yards came after the catch.

Last year, Fitz was 46th in the NFL in total YAC with 331. 5.25 average YAC on a 12.4 YPC. 42.3% of Fitz's yards last year came after the catch.

Fitz in 2008: 96 rec, 1431 yards, 14.9 YPC, 446 YAC, 4.64 AYAC, 31% of yards after catch.

Fitz in 2009: 97 rec, 1092 yds, 11.3 YPC, 285 YAC, 2.94 AYAC, 26% of yards after the catch.
 

oaken1

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if I recall...wasn't Larry getting most of his big yardage plays via the deep jump ball back then? he did a whole lot of going up over two guys, catching the ball, then going down...but just happened to be 40 yds down field...
 

Chopper0080

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Can I come up with reasons based on his actions ?

One can say he is a team player, and does the job he is paid to do with little to no complaints.

I really cannot remember a time Fitzgerald has ever complained about his touches over wins in a public forum. I may have forgotten when it happened but a better face of the franchise you would be hard pressed to find in my opinion. I can say that based on his actions.

Yet, does this separate him from other athletes......not really sure, and don't really expect that out of him. As a fan I couldn't ask more from Fitzgerald. Its a business so making his money is par for the course.

There had been plenty of athletes that make big money and still are a pain in the butt, and publically throw hissy fits on the field and off of it when it comes to yards, and what not.

In reference to the topic, I do not care about Fitzgerald's stats. The guy catches just about anything you throw at him, and I think his role for this team is perfect.

You don't believe Fitzgerald has leveraged his production, role, and status in every contract negotiation he has had? You don't believe all of his comments about his role, understanding the system, and how many QBs he has played with aren't smartly placed to try and convince the public that he is still a top player despite his lack of production? Come on. Fitz is a competitor, and has always been concerned with where he ranks in the league financially, and what his leagacy after football looks like. He was never going to go to another team because he would have bean paid like an average WR, and would have still produced like an average WR.

Revis pretty has done to the league what Fitzgerald has done to the Cardinals. Cleverly used the media to remain in the spotlight and maintain his reputation despite the circumstances he is in while maximizing every opportunity to getthe most money possible.
 

RugbyMuffin

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You don't believe Fitzgerald has leveraged his production, role, and status in every contract negotiation he has had? You don't believe all of his comments about his role, understanding the system, and how many QBs he has played with aren't smartly placed to try and convince the public that he is still a top player despite his lack of production? Come on.

That sure is a lot of opinion, and assumption to try can say that my thoughts are ridiculous.

The NFL is a business, if a player doesn't use his skill and production to negotiate his contract then he is a fool.

As for his comments, I think the man is answering the questions posed to him. He seems to be quite comfortable with his role the way I see, and it seems it is the fans/media that are not. If he says he is fine with his lowered production then he is called out for not being competitive, if he says he is not happy with his production then he is called out for being selfish. It is a no win situation for him. Thus I do not see what he gains through complaining.

In my opinion, the guy does everything you can ask for. As for the business side of things, my opinion is noted here and in previous posts. I cannot debate your assumptions.



Fitz is a competitor, and has always been concerned with where he ranks in the league financially, and what his leagacy after football looks like. He was never going to go to another team because he would have bean paid like an average WR, and would have still produced like an average WR.

Revis pretty has done to the league what Fitzgerald has done to the Cardinals.

LOL. Cause Fitzgerald wrote up the original contract right, and then put a gun to Graves' head to sign it right ?

Fitzgerald got a standard contract for his draft placement and hit every escalator in the contract. Since then he has done what you do in business situations and take the opportunities that are put before you. Again, just like every other professional athlete does. If you personally have a problem with how the Cardinals handled Fitzgerald, then you should send them a letter for your discontent.

Cleverly used the media to remain in the spotlight and maintain his reputation despite the circumstances he is in while maximizing every opportunity to get the most money possible.

A player who used to leave the locker room early so he didn't have to talk to the media, all of a sudden is a master of weaving a web of media for negotiation purposes ? If you believe that then those are your words.

Also, I think that Fitzgerald's personality, his ability to be a gentleman, to be a spokesman, the fact he is one of the best receivers of all time, put himself on the map by having one of the best playoff runs in front of the nation, and through hard work, dedication, and even in the face of playing with some of the worst QB's that have ever played in the NFL, has the respect of his peers, coaches, and fans, have something to do with him staying in the spot light.

How about a little respect for the skill the guy brings to the game, at this point if you read this entire thread, its like people are saying Fitzgerald is a over hyped Bryant Johnson. Which is not even worth debating cause it is just plain not true.

:hatersgonnahate:
 

splitsecond

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Is he though? Or do guys like John Brown reap the benefits of having him on the roster? We saw how bad our offense was when he was out last year.
 

Buckybird

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How is it the Fitzgerald is never fast enough yet last year I saw him take a slant to the house ?

If this was such a big deal to Fitzgerald why would he stay with the Cardinals when he has the opportunity to play anywhere he wants.

This is a mountain out of a mole hill. Guy has never said anything that would make a person believe he is a "me" player, and does everything asked of him by the coaching staffs he has had over his career.

Yet, haters are going to hate.

:thumbup:
 

RugbyMuffin

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Rugby, do you think that Fitz has any capacity to play up to his $11M contract?

Mike Wallace had a superior season to Larry Fitzgerald last season.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

9 receivers average $10M+ per season. Fitzgerald is the least productive of those guys.

Nope.

But he is going to be paid that anyway. He is going to be a hell of a player for the Cardinals as well.

Again, how is it Fitzgerald's fault what he gets paid?

Roger Goodell is going to get paid hundreds of millions of dollars next year and he will continue to suck at his job.

Please keep in mind we are talking about the oringal post that talks about production in his current role with the team.

Sent from my intergalactic transmorgapher
 
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