Fixing our O-Line

[Reddog]

If we followed the Dallas example, they had weaker tackles and very solid interior linemen. As I said in the off season when USA Today ranked linemen and LD was way down the list, he is an underachiever at LT. He was totally moved by a rookie DE. He still jumps offsides too much as if he were still a rookie. Shift him to left guard and overpay for the most dominant LT available. If we don’t have anyone that will be rock solid at the other Guard go get one of those too. Fill in with the best available at RT. In other words build a solid left side and interior and give our RBs a chance.

 

[JeffGollin]

There probably isn't much we can do this year except to ride herd on the guys we've got and try to develop and motivate them.

Next year is a different story. I'm in favor of employing a very wide broom - starting at the top of the unit - spare no expense to bring in the very best offensive line coach we can get.

The O-line coach should have the authority on all personnel decisions pertaining to his unit. And management should support him and be willing to pay top dollar to implement whatever moves the new coach wants to make.

If it were me, I'd (a) lay out job profiles for each position (including regular roster and training camp backups) that would comprise my "perfect" offensive line. (b) do an exhaustive review of the guys we've got to determine whether or not anyone can either fill a position right now or if anyone can be coached-up within 3 - 4 months so that he'd be ready to fill a slot, (c) I'd lay out a strategy for bringing in the guys we need to fill empty positions and (d) depending on how successful we were adding those guys via free agency, trades or the draft, jettison the guys who aren't going to work out.

If I could at least see directional progress among the linemen we currently have, I might be more inclined to opt for stability and keep the unit intact to give them a chance to jell. But there's a point in time when you have to admit that "it just isn't working out", bite the bullet and move onward.

 

[AntSports Steve]

The Cards might have to start from scratch on the O-Line. I think Big's contract calls for an $8 million base salary next year. Well, that's just not going to happen as his play is way to poor for that kind of money. So, he gets cut.

Ross is under contract, but he sucks as a RT. Maybe he can play RG? Or is he also overpaid and you just cut him and consider the signing bonus a stupidity penalty that the Cards just pay and get rid of him and continue.

So, no OT possibly of starter level on the roster next year.

Guards, Wells under performs, easily replaced?

Rookie Guard, improving, does he start again next year? Or make him the 1st backup and hope to give him another year to improve?

So, no OG of starting quality on the roster next year.

Center? The Cards have 2 full years of training in Stef, should we write this year off to injury and make him the starter next year?

Basicly, the Cards have almost nothing to build on for the OL next year. How did this ever get so bad?

 

[joeshmo]

Re-structure Davis deal.

Hire Mike Tice when he gets fired to be OL coach.

Move Davis to LG and Ross to RG, surrounding Step with guys with more talent and more suited to play OG anyways, doing so should improve his game leaving him more comfortable to handle line calls instead of worring about the DT to the right or left of him.

Sign Jon Runyan to play LT.

Draft Marcus McNeil in the first round to play RT.

The End.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Basicly, the Cards have almost nothing to build on for the OL next year. How did this ever get so bad?

Failure to make real splash wit FA's and releasing Shelton... I do not care how much he was paid, he was better than anyone we brought in or drafted for that much. Heck even keeping Clement and putting him in a guard would be better than what we have now...

 

[Pariah]

LT: FA/Draft (Big is probably gone if indeed he's due an $8M base salary next season.)
LG: Ross (Ross is a G playing T, so let's give him a shot to earn his keep; it's going to be too hard to replace 3 of 6 line positions with new players, IMO)
C: Steponovich (IMO, step has been adequate. I'm okay with starting him unless someone clearly better falls into our laps)
RG: Brown (Brown is improving, and I don't see any reason he won't/shouldn't start in the same position next year.)
RT: FA/Draft (Wakefield and Ross are not NFL tackles.)

Whatever we do concerning personel in the offseason, I hope we've learned our lesson and don't cut a player until we know we have a plan in place to replace them.

And, as far as Big goes, I'd be tempted to overpay him if we can't find a replacement. The last thing we need is to cut him and then go into the season with Wakefield starting at LT.

 

[Evil Ash]

Re-structure Davis deal.

Hire Mike Tice when he gets fired to be OL coach.

Move Davis to LG and Ross to RG, surrounding Step with guys with more talent and more suited to play OG anyways, doing so should improve his game leaving him more comfortable to handle line calls instead of worring about the DT to the right or left of him.

Sign Jon Runyan to play LT.

Draft Marcus McNeil in the first round to play RT.

The End.

So what do we do with Elton Brown? Bench him?

 

[joeshmo]

So what do we do with Elton Brown? Bench him?

Depth

 

[Wild Card]

...as far as Big goes, I'd be tempted to overpay him if we can't find a replacement. The last thing we need is to cut him and then go into the season with Wakefield starting at LT.

 

[Pariah]

Is it the prospect of overpaying Big or starting Wakefield at LT that's hairraising?

 

[joeshmo]

Is it the prospect of overpaying Big or starting Wakefield at LT that's hairraising?

Both

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Team Report: Inside Slant

Inside Slant | Notes and Quotes | Strategy and Personnel


With a pathetic running game, too much pressure is being placed upon quarterback Josh McCown to make plays. And the situation doesn't figure to improve any time soon.


The problems begin up front. Right tackle Fred Wakefield, who started the past four games in place of the injured Oliver Ross, has not played well. He's struggled in both pass and run blocking.



Wakefield moved to tackle from defensive end just last spring, so his struggles aren't a surprise. The problem is that he shouldn't be the team's backup tackle. Coach Dennis Green made huge mistakes when he cut Anthony Clement and L.J. Shelton in the off-season.

Neither player is a Pro Bowler, but they certainly are better than Wakefield.

The offense did receive a bit of good news Monday, however. Initial indications are that the knee injury receiver Anquan Boldin suffered against Dallas last Sunday isn't as severe as the one he suffered a year ago.

Boldin missed six games last year after suffering a torn meniscus in his right knee. He suffered an injury Sunday to his right knee in the third quarter, but he later revealed the knee had been bothering him all last week. Coaches and the front office remain hopeful that Boldin will be able to play this Sunday against Seattle.

 

[Wild Card]

Is it the prospect of overpaying Big or starting Wakefield at LT that's hairraising?

Pariah:

Installing Fred Wakefield at left tackle, of course. In a league where the best players at that position routinely get the franchise tag, though, it would make perfect sense for the Cards to try and line up a converted defensive lineman at OLT.

WC

 

[coyotesareback]

Whats the big deal trade wakefield for walter jones staight up! (sarcasm)

 

[Russ Smith]

Whats the big deal trade wakefield for walter jones staight up! (sarcasm)

Green would probably convert Jones to a DT.

 

[coyotesareback]

true Russ his tinkering seems to be what gets him in trouble. thinks he can just put guys where he wants and it will all work out well. WRONG DENNY!!!!!

 

[earthsci]

true Russ his tinkering seems to be what gets him in trouble. thinks he can just put guys where he wants and it will all work out well. WRONG DENNY!!!!!

Oh Jeez, he did the same thing with the defense and you aren't complaining about that.

I guess that he should have just left that dominating offensive line alone. I know that he wasn't successful but it's not for lack of effort.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

My biggest fear is that Green gets jumpy, cuts Davis, and the 9ers snap him up. They put him at RT, and he whoops our butts twice a year for 7 years.

I'm not sure if you'd necessarily need to move him to Guard. He could play RT with a little help with his footwork. But there is the problem, who is going to help him with his footwork?? Our OLine coaching has been abyssmal.

Draft D'Brickshaw Ferguson, move Davis to RT, move Brown to LG, Ross to RG.

 

[AZCB34]

Hire Mike Tice when he gets fired to be OL coach.

I have asked this before...

What came first, Tice the OL coach in MIN or the talented Pro Bowl OL? If I recall the timeline correct, most of that line was in place and performing well before Tice every had anything to do with it but I am not 100% sure.

 

[Russ Smith]

My 2 cents, draft Ferguson and Nick Mangold.

Start Big at LT, Ross at LG, Mangold at C, Brown at RG and Ferguson at RT. Give Ferguson a year at RT unless he just comes in right away and makes it obvious he can play LT in which case you switch him and Big.

If we can't get Ferguson draft McNeil or Max Jean Gilles. If it's McNeil, he plays RT, Big LT, Ross LG. If it's Gilles, he plays LG, Big LT, Ross RT.

To be honest I am not sure you can win starting 2 rookies and a 2nd year player on the OL so we should probably sign one in FA.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I have asked this before...

What came first, Tice the OL coach in MIN or the talented Pro Bowl OL? If I recall the timeline correct, most of that line was in place and performing well before Tice every had anything to do with it but I am not 100% sure.

Randall McDaniel and Gary Zimmerman were both in Minnesota before Green got there in '92. A couple of beasts like that make any coach, and other linemates for that matter, look great.

He spent 1st round picks in '94 and '95 to get Steussie and Stringer.

 

[AZCB34]

Randall McDaniel and Gary Zimmerman were both in Minnesota before Green got there in '92. A couple of beasts like that make any coach, and other linemates for that matter, look great.

It seems to me, if my memory serves me right, that Tice coached TE's first and didn't take over the OL until maybe 98 at which point, that line was already established performers. I would have to question how much influence he had with Stringer'sevelopment because Stringer was a damn good OL before being drafted.

Now, I am not saying Tice would be a bad OL coach but I think it is important to establish some sort of reality check on whether getting would really improve the OL THAT much. Surely I would expect he would be an improvement over Lindsay but how much since I am not sure we can point to MIN and say "Tice took over the owrst OL in the league at MIN and turned them into a blocking juggernaut with his genius".

 

[Russ Smith]

I have asked this before...

What came first, Tice the OL coach in MIN or the talented Pro Bowl OL? If I recall the timeline correct, most of that line was in place and performing well before Tice every had anything to do with it but I am not 100% sure.

Per the Vikings site and Tice's bio. He coached the OL from 97-2001. IN 1997 he had 2 probowlers, McDaniel and Steussie. Steussie was in his 4th year and 97 was his first pro bowl appearance. McDaniel was a 12 time pro bowler and had already been to 8 when Tice took over.

In 98 they set an NFL scoring mark, McDaniel, Steussie and Jeff Christy(ex Card pick) were in the pro bowl. 99 McDaniel and Steussie made it. 2000 Birk made the probowl playing C for the first time in his career, Stringer made his first pro bowl that year too.

It would appear Tice was a pretty good OL coach, obviously McDaniel and Steussie were good players but he put 5 different players in the Pro bowl while coaching OL there so if he were willing to step back to OL coach I'd hire him.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I honestly don't think Tice would accept a job as an OLine coach. If he gets fired he probably just takes the year off.

In '98 they had a heck of Oline....and Green deserves some credit for it.

McDaniel (already there)
Steussie (acquired in the 1st....in a pick that came from Den for Zimmerman)
Stringer (1st Round Pick)
Christy (pickup in '93)
Birk (6th round pick)

The problem is I don't see a quality OLineman on this team like McDaniel. I also don't see a piece like Zimmerman that he can trade to get more draft picks.
He tried with Shelton and Clement, but because of their contracts nobody offered anything.

 

[Assface]

I honestly don't think Tice would accept a job as an OLine coach. If he gets fired he probably just takes the year off.

I dunno about that. The Vikings are the only team he has been a HC of so he has nothing but that on his resume if he wants another HC job. He's going to have to work his way back up to that. He's probably more likely to recieve a position coach/assistant head coach position (like Vitt with the Rams) than a coordinator position.