Flight Plan 2022

[BurqueCardFan]

"Easily addressed." Mm hmm, sure.

This.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Look, I still think CJ can produce if HE wants to. But, we certainly didn’t get that last year. It was as though he didn’t even attempt to make tackles in the attempt to preserve himself for a decent contract. Which, in fact, he actually did. He knew he was never going to get that money from the Cardinals regardless of his production. So he saved himself. We put more pressure on the QB the year before when he didn’t play. I expect the same this year. Our DL will be better without him, even though he may have a very good season in Vegas. Unless we paid him, we were never going to see the old CJ. And we were NEVER going to pay him. And that’s ok.

I like CJ...but let's not pretend he wasn't part of the problem stopping the run. And he disappeared against some of the best teams we faced.

I'm pretty certain Andrew Whitworth is walking around somewhere with a pimp cane because he consistently made CJ his...

 

[BritCard]

Boye Mafe and Jermaine Johnson interviewed.

Yeah I picked up Jermaine Johnson later.

 

[Stout]

The Cardinals aren't the Saints. Few teams are running the cap the way Darksiders on this board are advocating.

No one's advocating that, but you're advocating just punting on the season, which is ridiculous. This halfhearted "run it back" schtick we're trying, with (some of) the same players, just older, is weak sauce. There's a weak NFC and we're...punting. It's nice that you're okay with us giving up on the season before it starts, but I'm not.

Any substance to add, or just another "It's not Madden, bro" style post?

 

[Dayman]

People used the same argument about Reddick getting all of his sacks in 1 game to justify letting him go for nothing. How did that work out?

CJ isn't what he was a few years ago, but the gap between him and Kennard/Gardeck, who combined for 0 sacks last year, is a lot bigger than some people want to believe.

 

[cardpa]

C'mon guys we have Jones replacement in house ready to go.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Krangodnzr]

No one's advocating that, but you're advocating just punting on the season, which is ridiculous.

Not advocating that at all LOL. STRAW MAN.

This halfhearted "run it back" schtick we're trying, with (some of) the same players, just older, is weak sauce.

Older isn't always worse. Older Murray means better Murray. The Cardinals will be better if Murray is better. The Cardinals will be better if they don't get hit with a rash of injuries.

There's a weak NFC and we're...punting. It's nice that you're okay with us giving up on the season before it starts, but I'm not.

So what would you do? Eat away at future flexibility by making what would be mostly BAD cap decisions?

Any substance to add, or just another "It's not Madden, bro" style post?

I've said it over and over again, but I guess I had to repeat one more time for you.

Keim and Michael even made comments alluding to what I'm talking about. Michael threw out the statistics on how many free agents last year busted. It's complete and total fools gold...always has been, but the uninformed fan doesn't pick up on it. It's not even debatable, it's pretty much fact.

The real growth of the team will be through the draft. And with Keims record we shouldn't be too optimistic, but then again, this team was a playoff team last year with only a few losses

 

[Krangodnzr]

People used the same argument about Reddick getting all of his sacks in 1 game to justify letting him go for nothing. How did that work out?

CJ isn't what he was a few years ago, but the gap between him and Kennard/Gardeck, who combined for 0 sacks last year, is a lot bigger than some people want to believe.

Kennard didn't really get the opportunities and neither did Gardeck.

 

[BritCard]

People used the same argument about Reddick getting all of his sacks in 1 game to justify letting him go for nothing. How did that work out?

CJ isn't what he was a few years ago, but the gap between him and Kennard/Gardeck, who combined for 0 sacks last year, is a lot bigger than some people want to believe.

Remember when the season was over when CJ was injured and missed 12 games? I we finished something like 4th in the league for team sacks?

Well, I'm thinking more of that. Nobody thought Reddick was going to do anything. We will find a way and almost certainly add someone in the draft.

Gardeck has a very similar physical profile to Reddick.

Gardeck

242lb
4.57 40 yard dash
7.35 3 cone
4.32 Shuttle
36.5 VJ
31 Bench reps

Reddick

237lb
4.52 40 yard dash
7.02 3 cone
4.37 Shuttle
36.5 VJ
24 Bench

I don't want to go into the season banking on Gardeck, Kennard and Dimukeji and I don't think we will. But if we did I don;t think there will be any drop off from what CJ gave us the last 2 years.

 

[BritCard]

C'mon guys we have Jones replacement in house ready to go.

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You jest, but Reddick didn't do crap until given the chance.

Gardeck is physically very similar to Reddick, maybe he just needs the same chance?

At least Gardeck has a 7 sack season which was more than Reddick had before getting a shot.

 

[Stout]

Not advocating that at all LOL. STRAW MAN.


Older isn't always worse. Older Murray means better Murray. The Cardinals will be better if Murray is better. The Cardinals will be better if they don't get hit with a rash of injuries.

So what would you do? Eat away at future flexibility by making what would be mostly BAD cap decisions?

I've said it over and over again, but I guess I had to repeat one more time for you.

Keim and Michael even made comments alluding to what I'm talking about. Michael threw out the statistics on how many free agents last year busted. It's complete and total fools gold...always has been, but the uninformed fan doesn't pick up on it. It's not even debatable, it's pretty much fact.

The real growth of the team will be through the draft. And with Keims record we shouldn't be too optimistic, but then again, this team was a playoff team last year with only a few losses

So you think we have a good shot in the NFC right now? We don't have to just catch lightning in a bottle ATM, we need everything--and I mean everything--to go right to go on a run. We didn't have to mortgage the future to improve those chances. We were never going to drastically improve, but we could have improved versus regressing. Basically, we need 3 solid starters in our first three picks, that are starters right out of the gate, to be as good as we even were last year. That's not good. We could've mitigated that, easily, by signing some mid-level role players. Now we're going to be picking through the garbage bin for 1-year prove it deals that, even if they do alright, will leave us with the same damn depth problems next season.

You might not see it as us punting on the season like I do, so let me re-frame it for you. If we're not punting, the team's approach to the coming season is kind of, "Meh, we've kinda done enough to kinda give us a shot at making the playoffs, then who knows?" That's been the Steelers approach in recent seasons, and brother, let me tell you, it doesn't work.

 

[BritCard]

So you think we have a good shot in the NFC right now? We don't have to just catch lightning in a bottle ATM, we need everything--and I mean everything--to go right to go on a run. We didn't have to mortgage the future to improve those chances. We were never going to drastically improve, but we could have improved versus regressing. Basically, we need 3 solid starters in our first three picks, that are starters right out of the gate, to be as good as we even were last year. That's not good. We could've mitigated that, easily, by signing some mid-level role players. Now we're going to be picking through the garbage bin for 1-year prove it deals that, even if they do alright, will leave us with the same damn depth problems next season.

You might not see it as us punting on the season like I do, so let me re-frame it for you. If we're not punting, the team's approach to the coming season is kind of, "Meh, we've kinda done enough to kinda give us a shot at making the playoffs, then who knows?" That's been the Steelers approach in recent seasons, and brother, let me tell you, it doesn't work.

If teams just loading up with FA's won the superbowl the league would be pretty boring. How many "dream teams" actually worked out?

The Pats never had the best rosters when they won their rings. There is more goes into winning than just accumulating talent. Talent has a role too of course, but then we were 7-0 and 10-2 last year before injuries and stomped some big teams. Including the superbowl winners in their own yard. So I'm confident we have talent.

 

[Stout]

If teams just loading up with FA's won the superbowl the league would be pretty boring. How many "dream teams" actually worked out?

The Pats never had the best rosters when they won their rings. There is more goes into winning than just accumulating talent. Talent has a role too of course, but then we were 7-0 and 10-2 last year before injuries and stomped some big teams. Including the superbowl winners in their own yard. So I'm confident we have talent.

Who's talking about dream teams? I'm talking about adding mid-level role players instead of garbage bin 1-year wonders. The Pats did pretty good doing exactly that, finding the right fit to bolster their talent with role players.

You love citing our GOOD records last season while utterly ignoring the bad part of our season, always citing injuries as the SOLE reason for it. Injuries played a part, but aren't close to being the full explanation. Plus, we're running it back with far less talent on the roster than last season. We have some talent; we have less talent and depth than last year, when we fell apart like a cheap watch in pretty much every aspect of the game. We need a historically good top end of the draft to even be as good as we were last year.

But, nah, we're good lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chandler Jones may not be what he once was but we have done absolutely nothing to address the hole. CJ was deemed a top 5-10 FA heading into this FA season. Not saying I wanted to spend the money at the going rate but he is still considered an upper echelon defender.

Yup. In terms of a “where are we right now” perspective we removed a guy that many of you apparently hated last season and have not replaced him. At present the guys slated to take his snaps were on the team last season. And played behind jones. They couldn’t supplant him. I’m sure some will now say that’s bc vance wouldn’t play them. In anticipation of that gripe, are we now at a point where it’s not just rookies vance won’t play but even multiple year vets that some of you deem as better than jones? So Vance’s philosophy is “I’m going to play worse talent because I say so and blah blah blah.” At present losing jones is a net negative. Can we still sign/draft replacement? Of course we can. Are we going to? Who knows. Is that guy on the roster today? Nope.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean he was bad at defending the run and was rarely doubled teamed. We need a replacement but I doubt we'll miss him. He wasn't game changer last year outside of a single game. Paying him what the Raiders paid him would be an unspeakably bad move.

Agreed that we shouldn’t have paid him that. What we should’ve done was be prepared with a plan to replace him with someone other than the guys who couldn’t beat him out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

???

We have three draft picks which can conceivably give us a pass rusher, and there are still some VETS out there that will come in at a price point well below CJ.

We have more major holes than draft picks; it is simple math.

This doesn't even factor in Keim's pitiful success rate on these draft picks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Boye Mafe.

A) if he’s there - no guarantee
B) if he pans out - Keim’s track record on identifying talent in draft isn’t exactly legendary for the right reasons
C) if we draft him I hope he’s good so during games I can tell “YEEAAAH BOYYYYYYYYYE”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kennard didn't really get the opportunities and neither did Gardeck.

Because they weren’t deemed good enough to play over a mediocre jones. Terrific to see that’s who we are counting on as of today.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If teams just loading up with FA's won the superbowl the league would be pretty boring. How many "dream teams" actually worked out?

The Pats never had the best rosters when they won their rings. There is more goes into winning than just accumulating talent. Talent has a role too of course, but then we were 7-0 and 10-2 last year before injuries and stomped some big teams. Including the superbowl winners in their own yard. So I'm confident we have talent.

I hate when people use the patriots as a benchmark for anything. No one else has belicheck and Brady. That, imo, ends any reasonable read of the point the poster is trying to make.

 

[DVontel]

I hate when people use the patriots as a benchmark for anything. No one else has belicheck and Brady. That, imo, ends any reasonable read of the point the poster is trying to make.

The Mitch special.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A) if he’s there - no guarantee
B) if he pans out - Keim’s track record on identifying talent in draft isn’t exactly legendary for the right reasons
C) if we draft him I hope he’s good so during games I can tell “YEEAAAH BOYYYYYYYYYE”

You always point out "ifs"... honestly it makes me question whether you've ever followed sports lol.

Every team has "ifs". The vast majority of an 11 win team is coming back...and this is a team that did have significant injuries down the stretch. Before you point that out as an excuse...healthy teams often end up better in the end. The Cardinals lone Super Bowl team was a pretty damn heathy team. It is what it is...it's something that can't be controlled, but it is a predictor of success.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I hate when people use the patriots as a benchmark for anything. No one else has belicheck and Brady. That, imo, ends any reasonable read of the point the poster is trying to make.

I do agree with this. That team is an extreme outlier across all sports. They won a bunch of titles using very different formulas. Probably their best team actually didn't win a Super Bowl.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Yup. In terms of a “where are we right now” perspective we removed a guy that many of you apparently hated last season and have not replaced him. At present the guys slated to take his snaps were on the team last season. And played behind jones. They couldn’t supplant him. I’m sure some will now say that’s bc vance wouldn’t play them. In anticipation of that gripe, are we now at a point where it’s not just rookies vance won’t play but even multiple year vets that some of you deem as better than jones? So Vance’s philosophy is “I’m going to play worse talent because I say so and blah blah blah.” At present losing jones is a net negative. Can we still sign/draft replacement? Of course we can. Are we going to? Who knows. Is that guy on the roster today? Nope.

Yes. This is my point exactly. I'm not saying Chandler Jones was worth what he got from the Raiders but we had no fall back plan. To just re-sign Dogbe and Gardeck and think that solves the problem is ridiculous.
Why didn't we try to re-acquire Hassan Reddick or a similar younger edge rusher? To just do nothing is not the answer.

 

[BritCard]

Yes. This is my point exactly. I'm not saying Chandler Jones was worth what he got from the Raiders but we had no fall back plan. To just re-sign Dogbe and Gardeck and think that solves the problem is ridiculous.
Why didn't we try to re-acquire Hassan Reddick or a similar younger edge rusher? To just do nothing is not the answer.

We did. Apparently the Cards offered Reddick 13m per year but they didn't want to go higher.

 

[gimpy]

Who's talking about dream teams? I'm talking about adding mid-level role players instead of garbage bin 1-year wonders. The Pats did pretty good doing exactly that, finding the right fit to bolster their talent with role players.

You love citing our GOOD records last season while utterly ignoring the bad part of our season, always citing injuries as the SOLE reason for it. Injuries played a part, but aren't close to being the full explanation. Plus, we're running it back with far less talent on the roster than last season. We have some talent; we have less talent and depth than last year, when we fell apart like a cheap watch in pretty much every aspect of the game. We need a historically good top end of the draft to even be as good as we were last year.

But, nah, we're good lol

OK, Stout, (I had a long meandering post written, but changed it). What, in your opinion, is the "full explanation" of our total year end collapse, besides injuries?