Flight Plan 2022

[BritCard]

Tell that to our run defense.

I would but it wouldn't change the 3rd of snaps thing

 

[QuebecCard]

Nice try. They are using a rotation because neither player are good enough.

Football in the 21st century.

All teams use a defensive line rotation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You get the GOOD mid-level role players--you know, someone who can fill in as a low-end starting edge player, for one--earlier in the process. You don't dig through the misfit toys bin.

Bro the Cardinals signed a player who made the Pro Bowl and scored EIGHTEEN TDs after the draft.

Melvin Ingram could come in at 2 million and probably create 3/4s the pass rush Jones did.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You always point out "ifs"... honestly it makes me question whether you've ever followed sports lol.

Every team has "ifs". The vast majority of an 11 win team is coming back...and this is a team that did have significant injuries down the stretch. Before you point that out as an excuse...healthy teams often end up better in the end. The Cardinals lone Super Bowl team was a pretty damn heathy team. It is what it is...it's something that can't be controlled, but it is a predictor of success.

No you always seem to state ifs as being definitive. Makes me question whether you’ve ever watched sports. More often than not ifs fail in pro sports.

 

[Stout]

Bro the Cardinals signed a player who made the Pro Bowl and scored EIGHTEEN TDs after the draft.

Melvin Ingram could come in at 2 million and probably create 3/4s the pass rush Jones did.

I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm disputing the "relax, we'll totally fill all those holes AFTER the draft" rationale.

 

[Stout]

Good job there are loads of them available

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Mm hm. Go on with your "everything is awesome and we're approaching the offseason perfectly" take. I'll be over here disagreeing with you. I think my healthy distrust of Keim to successfully pull of what you're saying with multiple starting holes on this roster is much more warranted.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You always point out "ifs"... honestly it makes me question whether you've ever followed sports lol.

Every team has "ifs". The vast majority of an 11 win team is coming back...and this is a team that did have significant injuries down the stretch. Before you point that out as an excuse...healthy teams often end up better in the end. The Cardinals lone Super Bowl team was a pretty damn heathy team. It is what it is...it's something that can't be controlled, but it is a predictor of success.

While the injuries are an excuse (that the best teams overcome), I do understand how recovered players come into account in subsequent seasons. For instance a lot of us (including myself) have asked how we replace moore’s production if we are counting on him to replace kirks production and the easiest answer is that Hopkins is returning and we didn’t have all the production he would’ve generated has he not gotten injured.

But saying that “x” is going to effectively happen to fill a real life existing hole isn’t reality. It’s fairy dust hopeful land. And bc keim didn’t effectively fill jones’ shoes prior to the draft now we kinda have to draft someone - thereby precluding us from taking an inferior lineman, a wide receiver, or a corner, because we have four holes instead of three - or waiting for the post draft collection misfit broken toy free agents to fill the role. Can it happen? Sure. But we’re cardinals fans, how often has that worked out? Hint: not often enough.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

OK, Stout, (I had a long meandering post written, but changed it). What, in your opinion, is the "full explanation" of our total year end collapse, besides injuries?

I'll answer. Other than Kyler playing like crap, the front office and coaches not being proactive or even reactive to these injuries. The Rams had Robert Woods go down and they brought in OBJ. They brought in Von Miller. They could have sat on their hands and said hey "next man up", blah, blah, blah. But they didn't and where did it get them? A Super Bowl Championship. How did our coaches and front office respond? Same way they are going into this season. Thinking what we currently have on the roster is good enough since it worked at the beginning of last year. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Football in the 21st century.

All teams use a defensive line rotation.

Give me a break. Sure defensive lines are rotated, even edge players. Doesn't make it less of a gaping hole on our team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Great point on Peters, but he wasn't the player last year that he was in years past.

Like it or not but it looks like the Cardinals aren't going to be chasing free agents like they have in the past and I don't fully blame them. The Cardinals have had their most success with guys on smaller, prove it contracts.

My concern isn’t so much we haven’t chased “star” FAs, but it’s that we haven’t even looked to sign the Corey peters type FAs. His signing back in the day didn’t get big headlines but he was a solid addition to the team that defies the whole “free agents are worthless” drum that you and Brit have been banging all offseason. Guys like he and Frostee Rucker. Solid vets.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You list the so-called 'major' holes and then I'll do the math for you.

And you can't factor in what has yet to play out in this draft.

Correct, in either direction. So hanging your hat on what might happen is lot more tenuous than hanging it on what is the actuality today.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good job there's a crap tonne of FA's still out there then

True. None of whom are beholden to the cardinals.

 

[jf-08]

My concern isn’t so much we haven’t chased “star” FAs, but it’s that we haven’t even looked to sign the Corey peters type FAs. His signing back in the day didn’t get big headlines but he was a solid addition to the team that defies the whole “free agents are worthless” drum that you and Brit have been banging all offseason. Guys like he and Frostee Rucker. Solid vets.

Agree 100%. Signings like them "made up the underbelly of the team" and were solid.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yay, let's go to the bargain bin for some 1-year Keim time specials!

Ladies and gentlemen, your Filene’s Basement Cardinals!


(But tickets still at high end retail prices!)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The term used was 'starter'. Jones is most certainly the starter that has yet to be adequately replaced, and we definitely need to add to our DL/NT mix with the loss of Phillips. Hicks is replaced by Collins; Kirk by Moore; Alford by Gladney and he may return following the draft and finding competition for the RB-2 role is hardly difficult. WE can expect a host of Draft picks and FA additions to add to the competitive mix.

See I think there’s kinda faulty logic at play here.

Collins didn’t force hicks out. So it’s not like a lateral or upgrade move. It’s an unknown. Collins has the athleticism to be an upgrade but didn’t prove capable last year. It’s not like bringing in an established vet to fill a hole where you know the hole is filled. Here you’re hoping.

Same can be said of gladney, except maybe worse because he hasn’t even played in an entire year. Hoping.

Slightly more convincing on the Moore for kirk swap except we didn’t see much of Moore running kirk routes, so this is educated conjecture (higher than hoping) imo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

While the injuries are an excuse (that the best teams overcome), I do understand how recovered players come into account in subsequent seasons. For instance a lot of us (including myself) have asked how we replace moore’s production if we are counting on him to replace kirks production and the easiest answer is that Hopkins is returning and we didn’t have all the production he would’ve generated has he not gotten injured.

But saying that “x” is going to effectively happen to fill a real life existing hole isn’t reality. It’s fairy dust hopeful land. And bc keim didn’t effectively fill jones’ shoes prior to the draft now we kinda have to draft someone - thereby precluding us from taking an inferior lineman, a wide receiver, or a corner, because we have four holes instead of three - or waiting for the post draft collection misfit broken toy free agents to fill the role. Can it happen? Sure. But we’re cardinals fans, how often has that worked out? Hint: not often enough.

My mind is already prepared for a keim swing and miss lol.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My concern isn’t so much we haven’t chased “star” FAs, but it’s that we haven’t even looked to sign the Corey peters type FAs.

Those guys can be found after the draft....for less money.

His signing back in the day didn’t get big headlines but he was a solid addition to the team that defies the whole “free agents are worthless” drum that you and Brit have been banging all offseason.

LOL Akkkchuatly. It fits my narrative fully.

Guys like he and Frostee Rucker. Solid vets.

Yep. Those guys are had for a fraction of the cost that the Darksiders are pining for.

 

[Stout]

Those guys can be found after the draft....for less money.

LOL Akkkchuatly. It fits my narrative fully.

Yep. Those guys are had for a fraction of the cost that the Darksiders are pining for.

We're "pining" for high-cost players? Fantasize much?

 

[Krangodnzr]

See I think there’s kinda faulty logic at play here.

Collins didn’t force hicks out. So it’s not like a lateral or upgrade move. It’s an unknown. Collins has the athleticism to be an upgrade but didn’t prove capable last year.

Or the Cardinals understood that they are a medium sized market who needs to get value out of their signings when they can...

It’s not like bringing in an established vet to fill a hole where you know the hole is filled. Here you’re hoping.

Again. It's always hoping. The Suns were hoping that Chris Paul didn't regress like most players his age did.

Same can be said of gladney, except maybe worse because he hasn’t even played in an entire year. Hoping.

Teams are literally always hoping...and they also have actually met these people and done background checks...whereas you haven't...but continue.

Slightly more convincing on the Moore for kirk swap except we didn’t see much of Moore running kirk routes, so this is educated conjecture (higher than hoping) imo.

Hopkins 30%
Ertz 25%
Green 20%
.
.
.
Do you see how teams might view their weapons in the passing game? Once I started looking at it this way I started understanding why this isn't the issue you are making this out to be.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We're "pining" for high-cost players? Fantasize much?

Nah just pointing out how silly these arguments are.

 

[Stout]

Yeah, relax, Ouchie. There's nothing about the Cards to stress about, bro. We're Super Bowl contenders, didn't you know it? Or we will be after June 1st lol Keim's got this.


Oh, just in case someone here is new:

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those guys can be found after the draft....for less money.

LOL Akkkchuatly. It fits my narrative fully.

Yep. Those guys are had for a fraction of the cost that the Darksiders are pining for.

Sorry this comment is just stupid and has zero truth or evidence to support it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Or the Cardinals understood that they are a medium sized market who needs to get value out of their signings when they can...

Again. It's always hoping. The Suns were hoping that Chris Paul didn't regress like most players his age did.

Teams are literally always hoping...and they also have actually met these people and done background checks...whereas you haven't...but continue.

Hopkins 30%
Ertz 25%
Green 20%
.
.
.
Do you see how teams might view their weapons in the passing game? Once I started looking at it this way I started understanding why this isn't the issue you are making this out to be.

Man it appears you see everything in black and white and don’t understand how a spectrum works. There is kind hope, educated hope, more than likely hope, etc. a couple of those items I listed differ but to you it’s all just hope. No differentiation. And that’s where you lose any intellectual support for your position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah, relax, Ouchie. There's nothing about the Cards to stress about, bro. We're Super Bowl contenders, didn't you know it? Or we will be after June 1st lol Keim's got this.


Oh, just in case someone here is new:

These takes are going to look really silly later.

Chickenlittleism.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Man it appears you see everything in black and white and don’t understand how a spectrum works. There is kind hope, educated hope, more than likely hope, etc. a couple of those items I listed differ but to you it’s all just hope. No differentiation. And that’s where you lose any intellectual support for your position.

Now this looks silly, no?

What have I said all offseason. The offseason goes from beginning of free agency until the beginning of the regular season.

Adding Hollywood was a fantastic move.