For Cards, another missed opportunity

[Jetstream Green]

Rothlisslobber

Great defense, super line and running game...can you say an above average QB in a good situation but great QB? Hell no.

 

[JeffGollin]

Same woulda-coulda crap is all over the NYC airways with regard to Roethlisburger and Eli Manning - only it's more warranted there.

What Gambo fails to understand is that, if you were to change one component of history, it affects a whole lot of other things - like, say, Roethlisburger having to throw to guys like Jason McAddley and Kevin Kasper (instead of Randall-El, Plax Burress and Hines Ward) after Boldin got injured in his second year.

Or like having to chuck 'n duck behind that vaunted Big Red tissue paper offensive line.

Spare me.

 

[john h]

I'm just the messenger..........

For Cards, another missed opportunity


John Gambadoro
Special for azcentral.com
Jan. 23, 2006 12:00 AM


The Arizona Cardinals have made more than their fair share of mistakes over the years. From draft busts to free-agent busts to failing to develop their players, the Cardinals have seen and done it all.

But even when the Cardinals believe they got it right, they got it wrong. In 2004 the Cardinals selected Larry Fitzgerald with the third overall pick in the NFL draft. A very good draft choice, one that has worked out when compared with first-round busts like Tom Knight, Wendell Bryant, Calvin Pace, Leonard Davis, Bryant Johnson, Thomas Jones and others. But while Fitzgerald has proven to be one of the best young receivers in the league, the Cardinals would have been much better had they taken Miami of Ohio quarterback Ben Roethlisberger with the third overall pick.

Arizona already had a talented wideout in Anquan Boldin when they selected Fitzgerald. What they didn't have was a quarterback. That year the Cardinals rolled out Josh McCown as the starter with Shaun King as the backup. The Cardinals did use a draft pick on a quarterback in the 2004 draft, but it came in the seventh round on Michigan's John Navarre.

Roethlisberger should have been the clear choice for Denny Green, who was in his first year with the team and going through his first draft. Roethlisberger would have given Green the quarterback with which to build around and given Arizona its first true franchise signal caller.

The numbers for Roethlisberger in college were gaudy. He threw for 10,829 yards with 84 touchdown passes and just 34 interceptions, shattering almost every school record. He had prototypical size at 6feet 4, 242 pounds and a strong arm. That Eli Manning went ahead of Roethlisberger in the draft is understandable. That Phillip Rivers did is unconscionable.

The Chargers selected Manning first overall and promptly traded him to the New York Giants for Phillip Rivers, whom the Giants selected fourth. Roethlisberger somehow fell to 11th overall, where the Steelers grabbed him and anointed him their quarterback of the present and future. Like Arizona, Pittsburgh had questions at quarterback with Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch in the system. But unlike Arizona, Pittsburgh realized the importance of drafting a franchise quarterback and didn't hesitate to spend the pick on Big Ben.

In his first season in the NFL, Roethlisberger started 13 regular-season games and didn't lose one, throwing for 2,621 yards with 17 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He was voted the Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year and the Sporting News Rookie of the Year. Roethlisberger also bucked tradition by playing so much in his first season, a time when most rookie quarterbacks are supposed to watch and learn but rarely play.

The Steelers' system was a perfect fit for Roethlisberger with a good running game and strong offensive line. But Big Ben proved that he was the real deal. He came back this year to guide the Steelers to the Super Bowl. He is 26-4 as a starter. In his three playoff games this season, Roethlisberger has been outstanding with seven touchdown passes to just one interception. And he did all of that on the road.

Against the Cincinnatti Bengals in the opening round of the playoffs, Roethlisberger threw for 208 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions. The next week at Indianapolis he passed for 197 yards with two scores and one pick. And in Denver on Sunday he was a remarkable 21 for 29 for 275 yards with two touchdown passes and no interceptions.

Roethlisberger is the best quarterback the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw led the team to four Super Bowls in the '70s. He has pinpoint accuracy, is tough as nails and intelligent. And to think he is just in his second year. Tom Brady may get more attention and Peyton Manning may have better stats, but Roethlisberger is every bit as good a quarterback as those two and has to be considered among the top five signal callers in the league right now.

Had the Cardinals done the right thing and snatched Roethlisberger with the third pick in the 2004 draft, the Steelers most likely wouldn't be getting ready for the Seattle Seahawks right now. Arizona certainly wouldn't be coming off of seasons of 6-10 and 5-11, and there most certainly would be tremendous hope for the future by having one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

And while Roethlisberger clearly wouldn't have been as successful in Arizona's system as he has been in Pittsburgh's, his talent still would have wowed the fans and the organization and he would be the one player the Cardinals were building a team around.

While building a team is not easy the one thing that can be said is that you can't pass on franchise quarterbacks in the draft. They don't come around that often. And Arizona clearly missed in 2004. Maybe this year they will get it right and draft Jay Cutler with the 10th pick in the draft.

This is not hindsight but I and many others on the board wanted Roethlisberger. Unfortunately Fitz was close to Denny and it would not have mattered if we could have drafted Manning in my opinion. I do not think Denny realized just how long we have suffered for lack of a QB and just how unlikely McCown was going to take this team to a playoff. Water over the dam now but someday we are going to have to bite the bullet and go for a QB with a 1st rd pick or get lucky in a later round.

 

[phillycard]

And I'm willing to bet Gambo would've been the first to pile on the Cardinals for taking an unproven, small-school QB over the sure thing in Heisman runner-up Larry Fitzgerald. Hindsight is always 20/20. For a franchise littered with first round draft busts and only a year removed from the Pace/Johnson fiasco, taking Fitzgerald was the safest choice and probably ther best bet at the time. They couldn't afford another letdown.

Exactly Mao! It's so easy to be impressed with Ben (as I am) but damn give DG a break here. There's no guarantee Ben would have lit it up in AZ, but the odds are that Fitz would have been a beast wherever he went. We'll do this right this offseason, I'm almost positive.

 

[cdex99]

I'm just the messenger..........

For Cards, another missed opportunity


John Gambadoro
Special for azcentral.com
Jan. 23, 2006 12:00 AM


The Arizona Cardinals have made more than their fair share of mistakes over the years. From draft busts to free-agent busts to failing to develop their players, the Cardinals have seen and done it all.

But even when the Cardinals believe they got it right, they got it wrong. In 2004 the Cardinals selected Larry Fitzgerald with the third overall pick in the NFL draft. A very good draft choice, one that has worked out when compared with first-round busts like Tom Knight, Wendell Bryant, Calvin Pace, Leonard Davis, Bryant Johnson, Thomas Jones and others. But while Fitzgerald has proven to be one of the best young receivers in the league, the Cardinals would have been much better had they taken Miami of Ohio quarterback Ben Roethlisberger with the third overall pick.

Arizona already had a talented wideout in Anquan Boldin when they selected Fitzgerald. What they didn't have was a quarterback. That year the Cardinals rolled out Josh McCown as the starter with Shaun King as the backup. The Cardinals did use a draft pick on a quarterback in the 2004 draft, but it came in the seventh round on Michigan's John Navarre.

Roethlisberger should have been the clear choice for Denny Green, who was in his first year with the team and going through his first draft. Roethlisberger would have given Green the quarterback with which to build around and given Arizona its first true franchise signal caller.

The numbers for Roethlisberger in college were gaudy. He threw for 10,829 yards with 84 touchdown passes and just 34 interceptions, shattering almost every school record. He had prototypical size at 6feet 4, 242 pounds and a strong arm. That Eli Manning went ahead of Roethlisberger in the draft is understandable. That Phillip Rivers did is unconscionable.

The Chargers selected Manning first overall and promptly traded him to the New York Giants for Phillip Rivers, whom the Giants selected fourth. Roethlisberger somehow fell to 11th overall, where the Steelers grabbed him and anointed him their quarterback of the present and future. Like Arizona, Pittsburgh had questions at quarterback with Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch in the system. But unlike Arizona, Pittsburgh realized the importance of drafting a franchise quarterback and didn't hesitate to spend the pick on Big Ben.

In his first season in the NFL, Roethlisberger started 13 regular-season games and didn't lose one, throwing for 2,621 yards with 17 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He was voted the Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year and the Sporting News Rookie of the Year. Roethlisberger also bucked tradition by playing so much in his first season, a time when most rookie quarterbacks are supposed to watch and learn but rarely play.

The Steelers' system was a perfect fit for Roethlisberger with a good running game and strong offensive line. But Big Ben proved that he was the real deal. He came back this year to guide the Steelers to the Super Bowl. He is 26-4 as a starter. In his three playoff games this season, Roethlisberger has been outstanding with seven touchdown passes to just one interception. And he did all of that on the road.

Against the Cincinnatti Bengals in the opening round of the playoffs, Roethlisberger threw for 208 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions. The next week at Indianapolis he passed for 197 yards with two scores and one pick. And in Denver on Sunday he was a remarkable 21 for 29 for 275 yards with two touchdown passes and no interceptions.

Roethlisberger is the best quarterback the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw led the team to four Super Bowls in the '70s. He has pinpoint accuracy, is tough as nails and intelligent. And to think he is just in his second year. Tom Brady may get more attention and Peyton Manning may have better stats, but Roethlisberger is every bit as good a quarterback as those two and has to be considered among the top five signal callers in the league right now.

Had the Cardinals done the right thing and snatched Roethlisberger with the third pick in the 2004 draft, the Steelers most likely wouldn't be getting ready for the Seattle Seahawks right now. Arizona certainly wouldn't be coming off of seasons of 6-10 and 5-11, and there most certainly would be tremendous hope for the future by having one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

And while Roethlisberger clearly wouldn't have been as successful in Arizona's system as he has been in Pittsburgh's, his talent still would have wowed the fans and the organization and he would be the one player the Cardinals were building a team around.

While building a team is not easy the one thing that can be said is that you can't pass on franchise quarterbacks in the draft. They don't come around that often. And Arizona clearly missed in 2004. Maybe this year they will get it right and draft Jay Cutler with the 10th pick in the draft.

This arguement is so lame. Sure Big Ben turned out well for Pitt, but Fitz turned out well for the Cards. Now, with Boldin and Fitz, we can add that young QB to the mix, and help ease his growing pains.

And Cutler at 10? Maybe in the 2nd or an Omar Jacobs in the 2nd or 3rd.

To just rehash the Big Ben theory is old. Without Fitz the Cards would not have the best WR duo in the NFL. It's time to move on Gambo.

 

[duckfallas]

Green will not draft a player in the first round to sit on the bench for 2 -3 seasons. He does that with second day players. He expects his top round picks to play right away.

 

[john h]

Even I don't think BEn is as good as Brady and Manning yet.

Better than Eli yes, as good as Peyton, not yet.

Probably not, but he sure seems headed in the right direction. Besides the arm,size,etc the guy seems to be foot ball smart beyond his experience. We do not have a guy on the horizon who is anywhere near what any of these three guys are and they were all drafted. When is the last decent QB we drafted? Must be Neil Lomax and he was a 2nd or 3rd round pick. That is a lot of years to go without a good QB. We are between a rock and a hard place. You will never be very good without a good QB and as fans we want instant gratification. Even the best of QB rarely mature in the first or second year. Coaches who are on a bubble are not likely to go for the QB as they also need to win immediately. That is one reason I like the approach where the GM has the final say on a draft choice as he will likely have a longer view.

 

[duckfallas]

I'd take Big Ben over either Manning. Much like Brady, the kid is a winner.

 

[john h]

I think Cutler will be taken too early in this draft.

I agree.

 

[john h]

I think Cutler will be taken too early in this draft.

I agree. In first round almost anywhere depending on a teams needs.

 

[john h]

Totally agree. I find it very hard to believe that Roth would of been as good here as he is in PIT. The same people who are wetting their pants over him at the moment would probably be calling him out as a bust if he where a Cardinal.

Fitz is awesome. And is in some elite company right now. Not many have put up the numbers he has at his age. And if he continues to progress and play like he is he will probably be looking at the HOF at the end of his career.

Roth would not have been as good with the Cardinals. Manning wound not either but he still would be what he is and that is a very good young QB. I think any team starts with a good QB not a good WR or a good RB or a good OL. The QB remains the most important ingredient on any winning football team. When you get a chance to get what appears to be a QB of the future you take him no questions asked as he in the long run will make more difference over a longer period of time than any other position. Guys like these come along rarely and are few and far between.

 

[john h]

Fitz was the surest thing in that draft. Two years later, it's hard to argue that still. In fact, I think Fitz looks like a better WR than Ben R as a QB (although he's done very, very well in Pittsburgh.)


A lot of people were wanting us to take a QB, but Ben R. was a solid third place behind Rivers and Manning. And, I'm talking media. I'd bet someone else's house that Gambo never said Ben R. was the best QB in and we should take him. People knew he was talented, but they questioned his level of competition. In fact, had Pittsburgh not taken him at 11 (or 12?) he could've dropped into the 20's.

Would I swap Fitz today for Roth headsup. You bet I would. We are heavy in good receivers who are young but have no QB even on the horizon. This is the question that answers the questions. Who would help the Cardinals most today and next year?

 

[john h]

Big Ben was the guy that I wanted. In my mock draft I had us taking him. Still, Fitzgerald has turned out to be a great player for us. At least we came away with a solid pick instead of a bust.

There is no question Fitz was a solid pick but so was Roth. Both are still solid picks today but what do we need most today? Which would you rather have today considering our needs?

 

[ajcardfan]

Would I swap Fitz today for Roth headsup. You bet I would. We are heavy in good receivers who are young but have no QB even on the horizon. This is the question that answers the questions. Who would help the Cardinals most today and next year?

QBs are more valuable than WRs. No doubt about it, you have to take that deal IMO. Of course, there's absolutely no chance in hell of it happening.

I still think Fitz is going to be a better WR than Ben R. is going to be a QB. But, yeah, I'd trade Fitz for him.

 

[john h]

This arguement is so lame. Sure Big Ben turned out well for Pitt, but Fitz turned out well for the Cards. Now, with Boldin and Fitz, we can add that young QB to the mix, and help ease his growing pains.

And Cutler at 10? Maybe in the 2nd or an Omar Jacobs in the 2nd or 3rd.

To just rehash the Big Ben theory is old. Without Fitz the Cards would not have the best WR duo in the NFL. It's time to move on Gambo.

The problem you pose "we can add a young QB to the mix" is the fly in the ointment. We have not done that since Neil Lomax and we will not, in the immediate future, draft high enough to get the 1 or 2 decent QB's that might come out of a draft. For every all pro QB that comes out of a draft there are probably 10 all pro receivers. The odds are against us. We could sit here for the next 5-10 years and not come up with a good QB. When did Lomax go down (1987?). That is 18 years ago. Something to think about. When you get the rare opportunity to draft a QB that most experts think is special you do it. DG is unlikely to draft a QB as his contract is up in two years. Who can blame him? A GM who is comfortable with his position in the organization would lay the law down at some point and draft a QB who has the best probability of making it. One might point to our style of management and point to that as the reason we do not have a QB. That would be my position as our organization has never functioned like most NFL teams. The last QB that I was excited about was Jim Hart and we got lucky with him. From a small school in Illinois and came off the bench when our starter got hurt and never looked back. Maybe we are still suffering from the Kelly Stouffer syndrome?

 

[john h]

This arguement is so lame. Sure Big Ben turned out well for Pitt, but Fitz turned out well for the Cards. Now, with Boldin and Fitz, we can add that young QB to the mix, and help ease his growing pains.

And Cutler at 10? Maybe in the 2nd or an Omar Jacobs in the 2nd or 3rd.

To just rehash the Big Ben theory is old. Without Fitz the Cards would not have the best WR duo in the NFL. It's time to move on Gambo.

It is never to old to look back and see where things went wrong. If you do not recognize your past mistakes you are doomed to repeat them. Football games are played on history of past games. Coaches look at films for countless hours looking at how teams played in past games. We as an organization would do well to look at our draft history and see just where we have gone wrong. Is it poor player evaluation? Is it because we have no GM who has the final say on draft picks? Just what have we done wrong over the years to make us the worst franchise in the NFL. Do not brush it off as just the past or history. Learn from it and then learn from it some more. We are not the worst NFL team for five decades by accident. There are specific reasons and they need to be addressed. I think it goes beyond just having Michael Bidwill in charge. That is just a start.

 

[chickenhead]

I'm a fan of Ben. And Gambo says in the article that Ben was perfect for the Steelers system. At #11 it was a great pick. But he is not necessarily perfect for the Cardinals system, a system that is malfunctioning, and at #3 he would have been a HUGE risk, IMO. Meanwhile, Fitz just rolled up over 1400 yards with our carousel of QBs. It's really hard for me to accept the idea that the Cardinals got it wrong.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I'm a fan of Ben. And Gambo says in the article that Ben was perfect for the Steelers system. At #11 it was a great pick. But he is not necessarily perfect for the Cardinals system, a system that is malfunctioning, and at #3 he would have been a HUGE risk, IMO. Meanwhile, Fitz just rolled up over 1400 yards with our carousel of QBs. It's really hard for me to accept the idea that the Cardinals got it wrong.

Agreed, also I believe that Fitz was the BPA at the time. We obviously could have traded down and still got BR if he was our guy. I wanted BR at the time of the draft also, I wanted us to trade down a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd. But as of now I can't fault the pick DG made. With our WR'S they are going to make QB'S looked better. All that said I believe this is the year to get a QBOTF.

 

[cdex99]

It is never to old to look back and see where things went wrong. If you do not recognize your past mistakes you are doomed to repeat them. Football games are played on history of past games. Coaches look at films for countless hours looking at how teams played in past games. We as an organization would do well to look at our draft history and see just where we have gone wrong. Is it poor player evaluation? Is it because we have no GM who has the final say on draft picks? Just what have we done wrong over the years to make us the worst franchise in the NFL. Do not brush it off as just the past or history. Learn from it and then learn from it some more. We are not the worst NFL team for five decades by accident. There are specific reasons and they need to be addressed. I think it goes beyond just having Michael Bidwill in charge. That is just a start.

I honestly do not have a problem with looking back and evaluating where things went wrong. But this is a case where things did not go wrong. For once, the Cards should not have egg on their face for taking Fitz. The problem I have is that Gambo is stating that the Cards completely missed the boat on Big Ben when they took Fitz instead. Don't get me wrong, I like Ben, loved him in college, and would have liked to have him on our team. But we also have the best WR duo in the NFL for the next 5 years.

I'm not trying to brush it off. All I'm saying is that, this time, the Cards got a great player instead of another great player. Now if Fitz was a bust, then it would be a different story. But he's not. He's an Pro Bowl WR and there should be no arguement.

 

[CardLogic]

All I'm saying is that, this time, the Cards got a great player instead of another great player. Now if Fitz was a bust, then it would be a different story. But he's not. He's an Pro Bowl WR and there should be no arguement.

Correct!

Except it's argument. :BIM:

 

[john h]

I honestly do not have a problem with looking back and evaluating where things went wrong. But this is a case where things did not go wrong. For once, the Cards should not have egg on their face for taking Fitz. The problem I have is that Gambo is stating that the Cards completely missed the boat on Big Ben when they took Fitz instead. Don't get me wrong, I like Ben, loved him in college, and would have liked to have him on our team. But we also have the best WR duo in the NFL for the next 5 years.

I'm not trying to brush it off. All I'm saying is that, this time, the Cards got a great player instead of another great player. Now if Fitz was a bust, then it would be a different story. But he's not. He's an Pro Bowl WR and there should be no arguement.

I still think one way to assess how the deal went down is to answer the question: "Today, would you trade Fitz for Big Ben?" I know this is not going to happen but if the trade were to be made would the Cardinals be a better team this year? I think the answer is a solid YES. We are loaded with good receivers and have no QB. Both of these guys are pro bowl type players but our need at this moment in time is a young QB who is very good. We could live without one of our receivers. As many say this is what it is and we will have to find a QB in la la land as it does not seem we will ever draft one in the upper rounds.