It's very likely he never sees year 2. Especially with labor situation. Could be 35 by the time 2nd season rolls around.
For the money we are paying Porter he had better...
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It's very likely he never sees year 2. Especially with labor situation. Could be 35 by the time 2nd season rolls around.
Zeno
Ancient
He can be a productive player without totalling a bunch of sacks...putting a number on it is irrelevant, he can produce by being an important part of the defense. I could care less what his contract is, I am not writing the checks, so I wouldn't judge his production based on stats--his impact could be felt in several ways. All he has to be a productive and not a non-factor/deadbeat.
Does anyone really doubt he is an upgrade over Okeafor & Berry?
If he doesn't get at least 8 sacks I'll personally think the signing was a dissapointment.
Buckybird
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OP
OP
Not just the 8 sacks. The hurries and attitude he supposedly will bring.
cardsfanmd
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Why not? He got 9 sacks last year playing only the run-downs in his 11th year. He was allowed to stay on the field for 3rd downs the year before and netted 17. He has a great reputation for taking care of his body and working his tail off. I expect 10-15 sacks this year and 20 over the next two wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Buckybird
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I hope he gets 20, but age does play a factor. We'll see.
LoyaltyisaCurse
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10 sacks + is what I would consider producing.
joeshmo
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Dont know if it pricey yet or not. 3 years 17.5 mill doesn't tell me anything.
What is the signing bonus, roster bonuses, and overall structure.
What is the signing bonus, roster bonuses, and overall structure.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
shane - you're right in your assessment that it could mean two things
the reason I like it is because I think the guy at his best can be average at this point in his career - which means you are using resources to pay a volatile average guy instead of finding a young guy
the contract size makes me think that the cards think he will be an important player
i hope they are banking on him to do something - mainly because I don't think he can .... i follow the dolphins a decent amount (as my brother is a dolphins fan and I'm a bills hater) and his season two years ago was a bit of an abberation .... i think if he had much left the tuna would of kept him around
then again, i was hoping you guys would sign foote as well
the reason I like it is because I think the guy at his best can be average at this point in his career - which means you are using resources to pay a volatile average guy instead of finding a young guy
the contract size makes me think that the cards think he will be an important player
i hope they are banking on him to do something - mainly because I don't think he can .... i follow the dolphins a decent amount (as my brother is a dolphins fan and I'm a bills hater) and his season two years ago was a bit of an abberation .... i think if he had much left the tuna would of kept him around
then again, i was hoping you guys would sign foote as well
TheHopToad
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Unsterblich856
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3yr/$17.5mil averages out to $5.83mil a year. That not as pricey as people make it out to be for a pass rusher who could net you double digit sack numbers. Hell, that's roughly what Chike made last year.
LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
two words: Charlie Whitehurst.
Were pretty happy with that signing as well m.o.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
those two are mutually exclusive
as for me - I'm not sure what he'll bring - seattle doesn't need a QB this year, but they need one soon
who knows what would be there at #6 - personally i'm a big fan of the potential of sam bradford - but once again, that's just my thoughts
i can almost guarantee that there will be another QB in the competition as seahawks QBOF
the move for seattle is a gamble, but doesn't really impact them beyond draft positioning for this year
to me it sounds like you're going to try to get 2 years out of porter as a starter and a key contributor - i don't think that's very likely
as for me - I'm not sure what he'll bring - seattle doesn't need a QB this year, but they need one soon
who knows what would be there at #6 - personally i'm a big fan of the potential of sam bradford - but once again, that's just my thoughts
i can almost guarantee that there will be another QB in the competition as seahawks QBOF
the move for seattle is a gamble, but doesn't really impact them beyond draft positioning for this year
to me it sounds like you're going to try to get 2 years out of porter as a starter and a key contributor - i don't think that's very likely
OP
OP
I am with you Joe. Curious to see the real numbers.
OP
OP
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I think people are already expecting WAY too much from Porter.
FrustratedFan04
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Brother you said a mouthful! For three weeks on this board it was "get him....sign him..... don't let him leave w/o a contract...OMG the a++holes let him leave w/o a contract....OMG he's going to Washington" and now we sign him and it's "what's he got left...he better produce...how much did we pay him...we paid too much". Give the guy a break. If he's a flop he won't be the first throughout the league. If he gets 8-10 sacks I'll be happy. If he gets in the heads of the other teams players, so much the better.
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JeffGollin
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Misc. Thoughts on Porter, His Role and Our Roster
First of all, it isn't our money - we're fans. If the Bidwills (not famous for throwing wads of cash around) are willing to part with $17.5 (going on 22) million, it's their call.
Second, we don't how much of the dollars are guaranteed.
Third, do we know what Joey's role will be? Will it be full-service LB (who has to spend a lot of time playing the run and dropping into coverage? Or will he be used "Freeney-like" as a pass-rush specialist? (I'd think - for the money we'll be paying him - we'd want him to be on the field more than just to rush the passer).
Fourth - On that last note - beware of overemphasizing sack-production; for two reasons: (1) there are other aspects of playing LB that we don't want Joey to lose sight of and (2) if there are huges incentives based on sacks and then we don't always leave him in the game in passing situations (for rotational or matchup reasons), he's likely to get cranky.
Finally, when you watch the nightly highlight shows on ESPN and NFL Network, they love to put up a chart showing (a) all the players we lost followed by (b) Kerry Rhodes as the only player we picked up. It conveys a false impression.
Lets review the actual bidding:
We lost Warner. We picked up Anderson. Leinart gets his shot.
We lost Boldin. We were deep at WR anyway.
We lost Dansby. We picked up Lenon.
We lost Berry and won't re-sign Chike. We signed Joey Porter.
We probably won't re-sign Gandy. We added Hadnot.
We lost Rolle. We picked up Kerry Rhodes.
You can argue about whether we netted out weaker (& by how much) but I also think a pretty decent case can be made that the FO has done a pretty good job of plugging the leaks - position by position.
Which means we can go into the Draft with our options pretty wide open.
First of all, it isn't our money - we're fans. If the Bidwills (not famous for throwing wads of cash around) are willing to part with $17.5 (going on 22) million, it's their call.
Second, we don't how much of the dollars are guaranteed.
Third, do we know what Joey's role will be? Will it be full-service LB (who has to spend a lot of time playing the run and dropping into coverage? Or will he be used "Freeney-like" as a pass-rush specialist? (I'd think - for the money we'll be paying him - we'd want him to be on the field more than just to rush the passer).
Fourth - On that last note - beware of overemphasizing sack-production; for two reasons: (1) there are other aspects of playing LB that we don't want Joey to lose sight of and (2) if there are huges incentives based on sacks and then we don't always leave him in the game in passing situations (for rotational or matchup reasons), he's likely to get cranky.
Finally, when you watch the nightly highlight shows on ESPN and NFL Network, they love to put up a chart showing (a) all the players we lost followed by (b) Kerry Rhodes as the only player we picked up. It conveys a false impression.
Lets review the actual bidding:
We lost Warner. We picked up Anderson. Leinart gets his shot.
We lost Boldin. We were deep at WR anyway.
We lost Dansby. We picked up Lenon.
We lost Berry and won't re-sign Chike. We signed Joey Porter.
We probably won't re-sign Gandy. We added Hadnot.
We lost Rolle. We picked up Kerry Rhodes.
You can argue about whether we netted out weaker (& by how much) but I also think a pretty decent case can be made that the FO has done a pretty good job of plugging the leaks - position by position.
Which means we can go into the Draft with our options pretty wide open.
OP
OP
Good input like always Jeff.
You are correct in saying that there is more to OLB play than just sacks. I have to assume that Whiz had a talk with Porter on being an all around player and Porter must have requested to be in for more than just passing downs. Looking forward to how it all works out, but at least we have a player that can get to a QB and/or apply pressure which will help the others around him to get more opportunities.
You are correct in saying that there is more to OLB play than just sacks. I have to assume that Whiz had a talk with Porter on being an all around player and Porter must have requested to be in for more than just passing downs. Looking forward to how it all works out, but at least we have a player that can get to a QB and/or apply pressure which will help the others around him to get more opportunities.
Arizona's Finest
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I think M.O. is way off base. Here are the real reasons Porter is worth every dime.
1) He has to be accounted for. Which our previous OLB's you couldn't say the same. I follow the Dolphins quite a bit myself being here in Fort Lauderdale and Joey isn't an all world player, but 9 sacks are 9 sacks. When he is on the field you better get him blocked, and even send double teams at him. And this opens up the field for Wilson, Campbell, and Dockett. You won't be able to measure Porters "success" by his numbers alone. You will have to look around the roster.
2) I am one who believes quite a bit in a players motivation, and Porter, coming into a system he is familiar with, is going to be in full on eff you mode. The Dolphins brass and fans have been killing this guy at every turn and I guarantee he will come out with a chip on his shoulder to proves he was right about not being needed to come off the field.
3) Our defense is big on rotating players. If we would have drafted a OLB we would then have two players whom in good reason we would have NO IDEA what to expect in Brown and rookie OLB. Especially from a liability perspective. That's not good. This way we can bring along Davis and Brown at their own pace and rotate them into situations that are going to maximize their success.
4) And this is most important to me. We can now address our draft not needing a OLB. With those first 4 picks we can truly go BPA at numerous positions which we all know is the best methodology for landing stars in the draft. Especially with Wiz and Kiem. This alone makes Porter worth every penny IMO.
5) What else were we going to spend the money on?
As a Seahawks fan its kind of bad form to think that you "happy" we signed an aging Porter. I like Whitehurst more then most but my cousin is a diehard Seahawk fan and is apolectic at the offseason so far. You aren't playing for next year. You are doing what Holmgren is doing in Cleveland. You are playing for 2012.
And Porter likely won't be on the team in 2012. So you'll have someone else to worry about at that point
1) He has to be accounted for. Which our previous OLB's you couldn't say the same. I follow the Dolphins quite a bit myself being here in Fort Lauderdale and Joey isn't an all world player, but 9 sacks are 9 sacks. When he is on the field you better get him blocked, and even send double teams at him. And this opens up the field for Wilson, Campbell, and Dockett. You won't be able to measure Porters "success" by his numbers alone. You will have to look around the roster.
2) I am one who believes quite a bit in a players motivation, and Porter, coming into a system he is familiar with, is going to be in full on eff you mode. The Dolphins brass and fans have been killing this guy at every turn and I guarantee he will come out with a chip on his shoulder to proves he was right about not being needed to come off the field.
3) Our defense is big on rotating players. If we would have drafted a OLB we would then have two players whom in good reason we would have NO IDEA what to expect in Brown and rookie OLB. Especially from a liability perspective. That's not good. This way we can bring along Davis and Brown at their own pace and rotate them into situations that are going to maximize their success.
4) And this is most important to me. We can now address our draft not needing a OLB. With those first 4 picks we can truly go BPA at numerous positions which we all know is the best methodology for landing stars in the draft. Especially with Wiz and Kiem. This alone makes Porter worth every penny IMO.
5) What else were we going to spend the money on?
As a Seahawks fan its kind of bad form to think that you "happy" we signed an aging Porter. I like Whitehurst more then most but my cousin is a diehard Seahawk fan and is apolectic at the offseason so far. You aren't playing for next year. You are doing what Holmgren is doing in Cleveland. You are playing for 2012.
And Porter likely won't be on the team in 2012. So you'll have someone else to worry about at that point
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Arizona's Finest
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Oh yeah one more thing. Anything that makes team pillars like Fitz and Dockett happy (who are both going to be in line for extensions the next two years) is all good in my book.
OP
OP
Very well put. You really broke it all down the way I see it also.
PJ1
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Good posts AF. No way our opposition in the NFC West are happy we signed Porter. We have very little proven on the outside and Porter will be a pain in the arse to our opponents at a minimum. Good signing for the Cards.
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