Former Cardinals on Keim

[Chris_Sanders]

One of the most important things you learn in management is that the key to recruiting and retaining employees isn't salary. The real key factors are trust, manager engagement, work environment, growth opportunity, company success, and a feeling of value.

These key factors are what triggers things like "Hometown Discounts", taking cap friendly deals, or simply refusing more money from a competitor. How do you think the Bucs brought back their entire roster from last year despite winning the super bowl? Arians embodies trust and manager engagement. They just won a super bowl so success is a check.

I am one of the biggest light siders on this board but every one of these players trashing us is hitting those above qualities when it comes to our upper management (I will include Michael in that).

 

[juza76]

I've been at the same job for over 34 years. I've seen quite a few come & go. I've been the boss for the last 17 years & I've had to let a few go. Each one has told me I was the best boss they've had. I'm still friends with a few. I've always been straight with my guys though. Had tears with one or two. I'm sorta like Norm when it comes to firing lol.

U can be good at your job but being a good boss is a different thing
A good leader lives by a set of rules, its the only way to earn the respect of your staff and makes them accountable
I m not defending players like peterson who obviously showed to be full of himself, but when a leader avoid the confrontation is a terrible leader

 

[Krangodnzr]

One of the most important things you learn in management is that the key to recruiting and retaining employees isn't salary. The real key factors are trust, manager engagement, work environment, growth opportunity, company success, and a feeling of value.

These key factors are what triggers things like "Hometown Discounts", taking cap friendly deals, or simply refusing more money from a competitor. How do you think the Bucs brought back their entire roster from last year despite winning the super bowl. Arians embodies trust and manager engagement. They just won a super bowl so success is a check.

I am one of the biggest light siders on this board but every one of these players trashing us is hitting those above qualities when it comes to our upper management (I will include Michael in that).

My thoughts are that whether the slights are real, perceived, or ridiculous, the Cardinals have a poor perception from a labor standpoint historically.

The team probably should go out of their way to change this perception. Winning more will cure some of it, but if so many people are saying this about Keim, there is probably some truth to it.

 

[Zeno]

Yeah. There is a way to deliver bad news to grown professionals that treats them like a professional. They are generally not happy about it, but they respect that you were honest and let them know where they stand.

Even Rosen commented that he never got a call from Keim before or after they drafted Kyler, not even after he was traded, he did speak to Kingsbury but it was like Keim was avoiding conflict. No matter your opinion of Rosen that still is a crappy thing to do.

Keim may be good at building relationships with his peers but I question his ability to communicate effectively to those who work for him.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Fair point. I mean ultimately Keim is just there to take the heat for Michael's decisions.

Ding ding ding.

Were it not for the Cardinals then Keim would be a middling scout so he's wise enough to go along with MB's meddling as his salary gets nuked 80% the second he gets canned (and with an expensive divorce in process!). No real GM around the league would suffer MB's interference and no owner would suffer Keim's roster management incompetence and off-the-field issues. Combine that with Kliff (another guy who wouldn't get hired by any other NFL organization) and there isn't a worse trifecta of leadership in the league. We are so blessed.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ding ding ding.

Were it not for the Cardinals then Keim would be a middling scout so he's wise enough to go along with MB's meddling as his salary gets nuked 80% the second he gets canned (and with an expensive divorce in process!). No real GM around the league would suffer MB's interference and no owner would suffer Keim's roster management incompetence and off-the-field issues. Combine that with Kliff (another guy who wouldn't get hired by any other NFL organization) and there isn't a worse trifecta of leadership in the league. We are so blessed.

LOL on the Kingsbury point considering the Jets were trying to hire him when the Cardinals did. Mind you....that's not necessarily a great thing when you consider that the Jets are known for making poor coaching hires, but you're not correct in the statement that no other NFL organization would hire Kingsbury.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Keim may be good at building relationships with his peers but I question his ability to communicate effectively to those who work for him.

Everyone likes the guy paying for drinks and lap dances!!!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

LOL on the Kingsbury point considering the Jets were trying to hire him when the Cardinals did. Mind you....that's not necessarily a great thing when you consider that the Jets are known for making poor coaching hires, but you're not correct in the statement that no other NFL organization would hire Kingsbury

They were interviewing him not hiring him.

And after two years of film on the guy's coaching in addition to his time at Tech - the answer is no. Zero NFL teams would hire Kingsbury in 2021

 

[juza76]

Everyone likes the guy paying for drinks and lap dances!!!

The best is having a girl paying for drinks and doing lap dance

 

[TJ]

They were interviewing him not hiring him.

And after two years of film on the guy's coaching in addition to his time at Tech - the answer is no. Zero NFL teams would hire Kingsbury in 2021

Kliff will likely be fired at the end of this season. The most logical fallback will be as an OC in college. He shoudlve never left USC.

 

[juza76]

Kliff will likely be fired at the end of this season. The most logical fallback will be as an OC in college. He shoudlve never left USC.

I was mild when he was hired but the more i listened his interviews, the settled stage at his home during the draft, so metrosexual,... his inability to finish games with his playcalling and his college record, i m skeptical he will keep the job

 

[Krangodnzr]

They were interviewing him not hiring him.

And after two years of film on the guy's coaching in addition to his time at Tech - the answer is no. Zero NFL teams would hire Kingsbury in 2021

Yeah trying to keep him from going to the Cardinals interview meant they weren't going to hire him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ding ding ding.

Were it not for the Cardinals then Keim would be a middling scout so he's wise enough to go along with MB's meddling as his salary gets nuked 80% the second he gets canned (and with an expensive divorce in process!). No real GM around the league would suffer MB's interference and no owner would suffer Keim's roster management incompetence and off-the-field issues. Combine that with Kliff (another guy who wouldn't get hired by any other NFL organization) and there isn't a worse trifecta of leadership in the league. We are so blessed.

lol... tell us how you really feel Mao!

 

[football karma]

Keim or Bidwill absolutely should have leveled with P2 at some point prior to free agency -- P2 wasnt some short termer with the team.

i suppose Keim could make a competitive advantage argument in keeping their plans to themselves, but its not like it was some secret that they were looking for corners

 

[kerouac9]

Ding ding ding.

Were it not for the Cardinals then Keim would be a middling scout so he's wise enough to go along with MB's meddling as his salary gets nuked 80% the second he gets canned (and with an expensive divorce in process!). No real GM around the league would suffer MB's interference and no owner would suffer Keim's roster management incompetence and off-the-field issues. Combine that with Kliff (another guy who wouldn't get hired by any other NFL organization) and there isn't a worse trifecta of leadership in the league. We are so blessed.

LOL. I live for Mao's bi-weekly drive-by shootings.

Kliff will likely be fired at the end of this season. The most logical fallback will be as an OC in college. He shoudlve never left USC.

It's an interesting question. Kliff's new NFL experience would likely make him a hot commodity as a college head coach. I dunno if he'd want to go back, though. I think he could resuscitate his reputation as an OC/QBs coach in the NFL, build more relationships, and come back stronger in four or five years (this is called the Full Whisenhunt).

 

[Jetstream Green]

I have a straight question, not that either two are 'smart', but who would you want making decisions for you on any wise or intellectual basis, Peterson or Keim? Exactly, Peterson's intelligence leaves a lot to be desired and if you think differently you have a soft spot for stupid and a blind eye for practical observations

 

[kerouac9]

I have a straight question, not that either two are 'smart', but who would you want making decisions for you on any wise or intellectual basis, Peterson or Keim? Exactly, Peterson's intelligence leaves a lot to be desired and if you think differently you have a soft spot for stupid and a blind eye for practical observations

What is this even based on?

 

[legend]

Anyone catch the not so subtle response from Vance Joseph today?
He talked about his current secondary being guys who tackle, who embrace the hard stops.
He addressed the difficulty of stopping a team if your corners can't put a guy on the ground.
He now has guys that do their job.

 

[Jetstream Green]

What is this even based on?

Well, just as much as any other fan is spouting out on... sorry that I have no PFF stat for that lol

 

[gimpy]

What do you mean what is it based on? This is the Cardinals forum. It doesn't have to be based on anything. Hahahah!

 

[Solar7]

Agreed with those who are saying this is a poor signal of Keim's ability to treat outgoing players with respect and open communication. He seems like the kind of guy who has suddenly made his decision and then hits people with the cold shoulder treatment.

 

[daves]

Seems as though it's the nature of the business that in some cases you want a player back, but then the opportunity presents itself to upgrade and the GM has to go back on what he may have told a player. Or alternatively, the GM might think he's going to be able to upgrade at a position but doesn't want to cut a player or tell him he won't be back... because the upgrade might fall through. And you don't want to tell a player you're moving on, then "nevermind - we were hoping to do better but we failed so now we want you back & have 100% faith in you!"

Being open & honest with players can easily backfire in a league where you're always trying to maximize talent & save cost, and facts on the ground are always changing. If you're too open, you end up basically having to keep players in the loop about every possibility you pursue and every negotiation as it progresses.

Since a GM can't do that, it's inevitable that while trying to keep options open and wait to see how things play out, feelings will be hurt. Tough business for these millionaires!

...dave

[Edit: wow, there were a lot of danged auto"correct" typos!]

 

[BritCard]

Seems as though it's the nature of the business that in some cases you want a player back, but then the opportunity presents itself to upgrade and the GM has to go back on what he may have told a player. Or alternatively, the GM might think he's going to be able to upgrade at a position but doesn't want to cut a player or tell him he won't be back... because the upgrade midge fall through. And you don't want to tell a player you're moving on, then "nevermind - we were f to do better but we failed so now we want you back & have 100% faith in you!"

Being open & honest with players can easily backfire in a league where you're always trying to maximize talent & see cost, and facts on the ground are always changing. If you're too open, you end up basically having to keep players in the loop about every possibility you pursue and every negotiation as it progresses.

Since a GM can't do that, it's inevitable that while trying to keep options open and wait to see how things play out, feelings will be hurt. Tough business for these millionaires!

...dave

I was thinking the same thing. And this is magnified even more this offseason with the cap reduction, players getting cut late etc

It's highly possible Keim intended to have P2 back but the situation changed. And let;s not ignore that fact that Peterson's agent would have put his ask in months before Keim moved on. If Keim is trying to juggle the cap, Petersons agent is asking for $14m+ (which is highly likely) then Malcomn Butler gets cut and you can suddenly replace P2 with a 1/4 the price the situation has changed.

Some will say he should have spoke to Peterson when that happened, but then you have the CB2 situation. Is Alford fit? Can he come back? Will he come back cheaper if cut? So on and so forth. The cut and resign of Alford only happened a couple of days before P2 signed with the Vikings.

With Peterson I can see it as simply keeping his options open in a shifting market and by the time he had the CB room figured out P2 was already signing with the Vikings.

 

[vince56]

Many of you will be very disappointed when the Cardinals make the playoffs this year and you’re forced to root for a Keim/Kliff team for a few more years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Many of you will be very disappointed when the Cardinals make the playoffs this year and you’re forced to root for a Keim/Kliff team for a few more years.