Free Agency 2018

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I still think they will try to get Capela. If Houston wants CP3 they just might not match. I think it's to much money for us to give him.

I don’t see this. He’s be redundant with Ayton. He’s not a stretch anything.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Some news on Marcus Smart.

I'm not liking him for the Suns because he is not a good shooter and I'm sure Danny Ainge wants too much for him. Also I do not like the idea of dealing with Ainge.

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Paaaaaaaaaaaaaass

 

[Chaplin]

What evidence do you have that leads you to the conclusion Warren has “very little value?” We haven’t tried to trade him to my knowledge. He’s an efficient proven scorer on a reasonable contract. I don’t think he’s a high value guy, but I don’t think I’d characterize him as “very little value.”

I've read/heard various things from Suns and non-Suns pundits talking about Warren as being expendable. He has a nice contract, but that's good for us if we keep him, but not great for us if we trade him. He can score mid-range, but that is it. He can't do anything else with any skill.

How much value do you think he has in this league? And why? He has not improved. Plain and simple.

 

[Mainstreet]

What do you mean dealing with Ainge? Unless you're talking sign and trade, we wouldn't have to "deal" with Ainge, just figure out if he will match a contract. That said, I don't want to go through the inherent problems with signing an RFA and then being tied to it for several days while business goes on around them. I remember that being the worst part of signing Eric Gordon to that contract a few years ago.

I think it would likely be a sign and trade for Smart. Ainge is too smart to let a player go for nothing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've read/heard various things from Suns and non-Suns pundits talking about Warren as being expendable. He has a nice contract, but that's good for us if we keep him, but not great for us if we trade him. He can score mid-range, but that is it. He can't do anything else with any skill.

How much value do you think he has in this league? And why? He has not improved. Plain and simple.

I think he’s a valuable scorer off the bench for most teams. I think he could net a mid round 1st in a normal draft. Or could be part of a nice package for a valuable player.

 

[Chaplin]

I think he’s a valuable scorer off the bench for most teams. I think he could net a mid round 1st in a normal draft. Or could be part of a nice package for a valuable player.

The problem with putting him in a package is that he automatically, at least for us, is the most valuable part of that package. And that's not saying much. I think he has some value, but not as much as many believe. Not sure he's worth a mid-round 1st straight up, so we disagree there.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking at the last draft, I'm reassured Warren is worth at least a mid first round pick as Ouchie noted.

And the last draft was a very good one.

 

[Hoop Head]

I've read/heard various things from Suns and non-Suns pundits talking about Warren as being expendable. He has a nice contract, but that's good for us if we keep him, but not great for us if we trade him. He can score mid-range, but that is it. He can't do anything else with any skill.

How much value do you think he has in this league? And why? He has not improved. Plain and simple.

Whether he's improved much or not since he's entered the league really only matters to the Suns and not a team acquiring him. They'd view him as he is, which is a 20 ppg scorer in a reasonably efficient manner considering he doesn't shoot a lot of 3's. Since he doesn't shoot a lot of 3's, he doesn't miss many, and he shoots from the field pretty good for a wing player. He's a 50% shooter who can score 20 ppg and rebound reasonably well also. So I definitely think he has value around the league for a team looking to add a scoring punch either in their starting lineup or off the bench. Probably best for a team with a PF who can stretch the floor already so he's not clogging things up inside.

Still, at $11 million a year or so, that's a quality contract and should be able to get a midround pick if we shopped him. He's signed for 4 more years, so a team with salary issues may even be interested since he's on a controlled deal. Similar wing players that don't score as much earn twice as much, like Otto Porter making $24 million a season or Robert Covington making $18 million. So Warren's deal makes him a value. He's not a terrible defender either. He's paid what most would like to pay for a good 6th man. He's definitely making less than most teams pay on the open market for quality starting wing.

 

[Chaplin]

Whether he's improved much or not since he's entered the league really only matters to the Suns and not a team acquiring him.

Simply not true.

They'd view him as he is, which is a 20 ppg scorer in a reasonably efficient manner considering he doesn't shoot a lot of 3's. Since he doesn't shoot a lot, he doesn't miss many, and he shoots from the field pretty good for a wing player.

LOL . Since he doesn't shoot it, he doesn't miss many? Really? That's a positive? That's just a made up positive. He's not a terrible defender, but he's not a good defender either.

We'll just disagree on this--if McD can bamboozle someone to give us something of good value, I'll be happy, but don't be disappointed when he doesn't. Either way, I think Warren is done as a Phoenix Sun, so hopefully we can get something useful in return.

 

[WildBB]

Simply not true.

LOL . Since he doesn't shoot it, he doesn't miss many? Really? That's a positive? That's just a made up positive. He's not a terrible defender, but he's not a good defender either.

We'll just disagree on this--if McD can bamboozle someone to give us something of good value, I'll be happy, but don't be disappointed when he doesn't. Either way, I think Warren is done as a Phoenix Sun, so hopefully we can get something useful in return.

I think they'll use him as 6th man. And he'll be very valuable in that role, especally since the roster will be much more developed next season. Looking forward to seeing this.

 

[Chaplin]

I think they'll use him as 6th man. And he'll be very valuable in that role, especally since the roster will be much more developed next season. Looking forward to seeing this.

If we don't trade him, I'd certainly hope so. I'd also like to see him improve just ONE other skill.

 

[Hoop Head]

LOL . Since he doesn't shoot it, he doesn't miss many? Really? That's a positive? That's just a made up positive. He's not a terrible defender, but he's not a good defender either.

Would you rather have a player who shoots 20% from 3 throwing up 4 or 5 3's a game or maybe 1 3pt attempt a game? He knows his limits and doesn't shoot shots from areas where he doesn't make them regularly. A lot of players around the league don't know their limitations and just chuck up 3's regardless of how well they shoot them. Since Warren doesn't make 3's, he doesn't shoot them. That's a positive thing. It's not making something up. It's a player who understands what he's good at and doesn't play outside of his skillset. He's an efficient scorer because he's not chucking up a bunch of shots from areas that he doesn't shoot well from.

Maybe I didn't word it that well but it's definitely not something I just made up as a positive. It's a negative that Knight takes a bunch of deep 2's he doesn't make, so why can't it be a positive for a player not to take bad shots very frequently?

 

[Chaplin]

Would you rather have a player who shoots 20% from 3 throwing up 4 or 5 3's a game or maybe 1 3pt attempt a game? He knows his limits and doesn't shoot shots from areas where he doesn't make them regularly. A lot of players around the league don't know their limitations and just chuck up 3's regardless of how well they shoot them. Since Warren doesn't make 3's, he doesn't shoot them. That's a positive thing. It's not making something up. It's a player who understands what he's good at and doesn't play outside of his skillset. He's an efficient scorer because he's not chucking up a bunch of shots from areas that he doesn't shoot well from.

Maybe I didn't word it that well but it's definitely not something I just made up as a positive. It's a negative that Knight takes a bunch of deep 2's he doesn't make, so why can't it be a positive for a player not to take bad shots very frequently?

Why is this an either/or? Why is the alternative to TJ Warren a terrible shooter? He knows his limits, which is basically everything except mid-range shooting. You like the 20ppg, of course, but it would be interesting to know how much he gives up.

Your logic is faulty IMO.

Since Warren doesn't make 3's, he doesn't shoot them. That's a positive thing.

Positive to who? He doesn't do something he isn't skilled at? That's not a positive, that's just common sense. I'm not a murderer because I am no good with guns. Is that a positive to why you should hire me?

 

[GatorAZ]

Would you rather have a player who shoots 20% from 3 throwing up 4 or 5 3's a game or maybe 1 3pt attempt a game? He knows his limits and doesn't shoot shots from areas where he doesn't make them regularly. A lot of players around the league don't know their limitations and just chuck up 3's regardless of how well they shoot them. Since Warren doesn't make 3's, he doesn't shoot them. That's a positive thing. It's not making something up. It's a player who understands what he's good at and doesn't play outside of his skillset. He's an efficient scorer because he's not chucking up a bunch of shots from areas that he doesn't shoot well from.

Maybe I didn't word it that well but it's definitely not something I just made up as a positive. It's a negative that Knight takes a bunch of deep 2's he doesn't make, so why can't it be a positive for a player not to take bad shots very frequently?

If only JJ had that mindset...

 

[Hoop Head]

Positive to who? He doesn't do something he isn't skilled at? That's not a positive, that's just common sense. I'm not a murderer because I am no good with guns. Is that a positive to why you should hire me?

Let's compare Warren to PJ Tucker. You should be familiar with him. He tries to do too much, which hurts his value as a player. He did here frequently. He'd try taking players off the dribble, chucking up contested shots from 3, or just doing things outside of his skillset quite frequently and Suns fans would comment on that a lot. Warren is a much smarter player. He knows his limits and doesn't try to do things that he doesn't do efficiently. How often does he do things during the game that leaves everyone scratching their head or yelling at their TV? Not very often, at all. He plays within himself.

We're talking sports and how a player performs while they're playing a game, to try and compare it not being a murderer in your life is ridiculous. A player who knows their limits and plays within themselves in the NBA is a good thing. Not every player is like that. A lot of players try to do too much or they don't do enough. Warren knows who he is as a player and plays to his strengths, offensively. He does not get goaded into taking bad shots from 3 simply because he's given space, like a lot of wings do. He knows it's not a skill he possesses and plays intelligently, only playing to his skills. If you don't get that, fine, I think it's odd but whatever. You trying to equate it to being the same as not being a murderer or even a criminal though is ridiculous.

 

[Hoop Head]

If only JJ had that mindset...

Apparently that mindset doesn't exist, or isn't something that's good for a basketball player. I guess it's like not being a murderer so it shouldn't be applauded.



Thanks for commenting though, it makes sense, right? I'm not imagining something?

 

[Mainstreet]

Shelvin Mack will become a free agent. I liked him some with the Jazz but he is mostly a backup PG.

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https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/macksh01.html

 

[pokerface]

I've read/heard various things from Suns and non-Suns pundits talking about Warren as being expendable. He has a nice contract, but that's good for us if we keep him, but not great for us if we trade him. He can score mid-range, but that is it. He can't do anything else with any skill.

How much value do you think he has in this league? And why? He has not improved. Plain and simple.

He's an efficient scorer Chaplin...and he wouldn't cost the moon plus he's under contract for a while. He's locked in. That has some value to a team that needs some stability and scoring.

 

[Chaplin]

Let's compare Warren to PJ Tucker. You should be familiar with him. He tries to do too much, which hurts his value as a player. He did here frequently. He'd try taking players off the dribble, chucking up contested shots from 3, or just doing things outside of his skillset quite frequently and Suns fans would comment on that a lot. Warren is a much smarter player. He knows his limits and doesn't try to do things that he doesn't do efficiently. How often does he do things during the game that leaves everyone scratching their head or yelling at their TV? Not very often, at all. He plays within himself.

We're talking sports and how a player performs while they're playing a game, to try and compare it not being a murderer in your life is ridiculous. A player who knows their limits and plays within themselves in the NBA is a good thing. Not every player is like that. A lot of players try to do too much or they don't do enough. Warren knows who he is as a player and plays to his strengths, offensively. He does not get goaded into taking bad shots from 3 simply because he's given space, like a lot of wings do. He knows it's not a skill he possesses and plays intelligently, only playing to his skills. If you don't get that, fine, I think it's odd but whatever. You trying to equate it to being the same as not being a murderer or even a criminal though is ridiculous.

He doesn't take crazy 3s. Fine. But that's NOT on the checklist of reasons to sign him or trade for him. He doesn't do what he shouldn't do. Again, that's just common sense. If he takes a lot of mid-range jumpers and hits a good percentage, that's a positive. If he doesn't get blocks, and by that measure doesn't try to make any blocks, that's NOT a positive or a negative. That's just common sense. Although, maybe that CAN be seen as a negative, because again, he doesn't do anything other than score.

You are absolutely correct, a lot of players try to do too much. If he did try to do too much and wasn't successful, that would be a negative, the fact that he doesn't isn't so much a positive as it is just good common sense. You keep trying to compare a high usage guy making bad mistakes to a guy who is basically just a scorer and doesn't do anything else to fill up the stat sheet. You are definitely overrating Warren the player. I never said he has NO value, I just don't think he has as much value as you think he does, especially to teams that aren't the Suns -- who coincidentally also want to get better.

 

[Chaplin]

He's an efficient scorer Chaplin...and he wouldn't cost the moon plus he's under contract for a while. He's locked in. That has some value to a team that needs some stability and scoring.

Some value, but enough to be the jewel of a trade for a good, if not great, player? No. He's a good throw-in, not a centerpiece. And that's a problem, because outside of him, we don't have any "centerpieces" we'd want to trade.

The problem here is your interpretation of my opinion as him not being as valuable as you think to him not being valuable at all, and that's simply not true. He has some value, just not as much as you and a lot of others think.

And we ALL know that fans tend to overvalue their players, so is it really a surprise?

 

[pokerface]

Some value, but enough to be the jewel of a trade for a good, if not great, player? No. He's a good throw-in, not a centerpiece. And that's a problem, because outside of him, we don't have any "centerpieces" we'd want to trade.

Ok fair enough. I wouldn't begin to say he's some center piece jewel. He's one dimensional but he is a scorer and he is locked in for a while. At a minimum we can get out of his contract and get a first rounder back. If he's packaged with a pick(s) then maybe we are on to something more substancial.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's an efficient scorer Chaplin...and he wouldn't cost the moon plus he's under contract for a while. He's locked in. That has some value to a team that needs some stability and scoring.

His TS% last season met league average so I wouldn’t say he’s any more efficient than the average NBA scorer.

 

[GatorAZ]

Apparently that mindset doesn't exist, or isn't something that's good for a basketball player. I guess it's like not being a murderer so it shouldn't be applauded.



Thanks for commenting though, it makes sense, right? I'm not imagining something?

Well that’s what impresses me about Simmons. Everyone talks about his inability to shoot 3’s but he knows it would hurt the team unless he’s in the mid-30’s. His efficiency numbers are high because of it and he doesn’t waste possessions. Of course he has other elite skills unlike TJ so it’s not as much of a problem.

I think JJ should get a pass for that because he was a rookie on a garbage offensive team. If he’s attempting over 200 three’s again next year at 25% he should be sat down.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why is this an either/or? Why is the alternative to TJ Warren a terrible shooter? He knows his limits, which is basically everything except mid-range shooting. You like the 20ppg, of course, but it would be interesting to know how much he gives up.

Your logic is faulty IMO.

Positive to who? He doesn't do something he isn't skilled at? That's not a positive, that's just common sense. I'm not a murderer because I am no good with guns. Is that a positive to why you should hire me?

Unfortunately in a day and age of many idiot athletes, having common sense is a positive.

 

[Chaplin]

Unfortunately in a day and age of many idiot athletes, having common sense is a positive.

LOL No doubt.