Free Agency 2018

[ColdPickleNachos]

So, my memory might be off, so feel free to fact-check me, but as I remember, Evans had an outstanding year or maybe even two in Sacramento as a point guard. Kings ended up moving him to 2 and sometimes 3. He is a big point guard, and he plays PG, he plays well. Now, I'd need to look at him closely again before I start advocating for the Suns to sign him or trade for him, but I seem to remember him playing very well as a point guard.

That's my recollection as well. He was actually the ROY, one of four rookies to ever average 20, 5, and 5. The other three? Jordan, LeBron, and the Big O.

His biggest issues have been injuries (and that's been a big one), outside shooting, and a scoring-first mentality. He's improved the outside shooting by a mile. Not sure on his ability to involve teammates. If that were still a big issue, we should probably stay away. I just really haven't watched him enough recently to know.

Also, I have no evidence to refute Phrazbit's assertion that he's bad on defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was reading this tweet from June 22nd. It seems to be on target.

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Maybe the Suns do find a new home for Chriss.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am not a Chriss fan, but I don't understand why he needs to be moved. He is a kid, like Bender, and he costs next to nothing. There is nothing to be gained by trading him now.

 

[Errntknght]

I am not a Chriss fan, but I don't understand why he needs to be moved. He is a kid, like Bender, and he costs next to nothing. There is nothing to be gained by trading him now.

A roster spot is probably why they'd move him...

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

A roster spot is probably why they'd move him...

The other issue is his immaturity. Who knows...maybe things have clicked. Maybe some of these issues have been overblown. But he gives the vibe of a player who could become an issue if he's not seeing much playing time. If the Suns bring in a free agent 4 (as planned), utilize Warren, Bridges, and Jackson as small ball 4s, and give almost all minutes at the 5 to Ayton and Chandler...that doesn't leave a lot of playing time.

If Bender and Chriss are both on the roster, chances are at least one of them is relegated to the bench a lot. If it's Bender, it's a really bad sign for his development, but he likely won't be a disruption. If it's Chriss, now you've got a third-stringer who is also a headache, and nobody wants that.

If the Suns can't get the right 4 in free agency or a trade, I say keep Chriss and Bender, play a lot of small ball, and hope one develops. If we do get an actual starter, it may be time to choose one for the other's sake.

 

[Mainstreet]

A roster spot is probably why they'd move him...

The talk about moving Bender or Chriss this summer has been going on for awhile although I do not have any links. It was interesting the above tweet mentions it as well. I see no need to do it, but I suspect it will happen. Perhaps it will be a part of a trade package.

 

[BleedRed]

I'm afraid we will regret trading Chriss or Bender, they are still so young. Hopefully if they are traded it's for decent value.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It would be interesting what Igor has to say about our PGs - I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he is happy to go into the season with Okobo and Harrison. with BK for emergencies. They fit with our timeline and give us some size and defense at the position for the first time in years. Sure, they'll make some rookie mistakes but neither one is turn over prone so we'll be ahead of the game on that score.

We are much more undermanned at PF though we'll be great at small ball with JJ or MB at the position. We'll be able to switch everything, thanks to our sizeable PGs and Ayton's mobility. That won't be music to your ears, I know. I'd like to see us add a big PF unless one of Bender or Chiss suddenly decides to play basketball.

I would 100% shocked and questioning Igor and mcds thought process if they went with okobo and Shaq as sole pgs. A second round rookie who is proclaimed “raw” and a g leaguer. I love okobo’s potential and I like Shaq as a deep backup. But no nba team has the temetry to start that at pg.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

From the cursory research I've done, it sounds like he did his best work as a point guard. Also, his stats look pretty good to me. I will admit, however, that the only Grizzlies games I watched or listened to this year were when they were playing the Suns, and he only played in three of them.

He was having enough of a positive impact on their games that I was pretty bummed when they shut him down.

Tyreke Evans is not a viable pg. he is the essence of empty stats. He was a project coming outta college who has been primarily “get mine” type player. Don’t be fooled by looking back, trust those that have watched him. He’s NOT the answer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So, my memory might be off, so feel free to fact-check me, but as I remember, Evans had an outstanding year or maybe even two in Sacramento as a point guard. Kings ended up moving him to 2 and sometimes 3. He is a big point guard, and he plays PG, he plays well. Now, I'd need to look at him closely again before I start advocating for the Suns to sign him or trade for him, but I seem to remember him playing very well as a point guard.

I’ll correct you, that’s exactly NOT the case. He put up hollow numbers for Sacramento. He flat out sucks as a pg. I’m not this adamant about many players. But I am about Tyreke. Would be a nice player as a role player off the bench for a playoff team. And even then just as a “guard” not in a primarily pg role. He just sucks.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Tyreke Evans is not a viable pg. he is the essence of empty stats. He was a project coming outta college who has been primarily “get mine” type player. Don’t be fooled by looking back, trust those that have watched him. He’s NOT the answer.

I mean...I have watched him...just not a lot this season when he supposedly turned a corner.

But point taken. I'm not going to die on the Tyreke Evans hill, particularly with my aversion to ball-dominant point guards and a roster that should be built around Booker and Ayton. I just wish there were more options out there that showed promise.

Evans we discussed.

Exum is unproven, injury-prone, and can't shoot (but is still one of my favorite options!).

VanVleet may be hard to get, and likely has limited upside (though another favorite of mine).

Bradley and Smart aren't true point guards and are both kind of a mess on offense.

IT is insufferable both on and off the court imho.

CP3 is a pipe dream (and would be a mistake anyway at his age and the contract he'd want).

Payton lost fans in Phoenix almost as quicly as he gained them last year.

Teodosic is slow with foot problems.

Rondo is a bad fit with a young group and a first-time head coach.

Parker and Rose are depreciating assets.

Napier, Ferrell, and Larkin are back-ups.

So...Who's available in the trade market besides Beverley, Schroder, Lonzo, and Kemba?

Dragic...Rozier...Brogdon

 

[Proximo]

I am not a Chriss fan, but I don't understand why he needs to be moved. He is a kid, like Bender, and he costs next to nothing. There is nothing to be gained by trading him now.

I think it is a team chemistry thing. I don’t think he would respond well being glued to the bench, and I see him getting very little time, especially if they are signing another 4.

I am convinced he will never develop much beyond what he is now, and am perfectly fine moving him. Seems McDonough feels the same way. I still believe in bender though. He can defend, his shot should improve and you can’t teach size.

 

[Hoop Head]

Memphis tried unloading Evans at least year's trade deadline for a late 1st round pick to a playoff team and no one bit, which says something about his value. A number of teams could have used him in the postseason if his stats truly indicated the sort of player they'd be adding but most teams know what he is, a me first ball hog who doesn't play much defense. When no one was willing to work a deal with them, that was a sign he wouldn't be sought after in free agency and I don't think spending more than 2-3 million on him would be a good move. I'd only pay that much because it's a minimal investment and if he takes it and proves he's turned it around, great, but if he hasn't, we could waive him and be done with it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I mean...I have watched him...just not a lot this season when he supposedly turned a corner.

But point taken. I'm not going to die on the Tyreke Evans hill, particularly with my aversion to ball-dominant point guards and a roster that should be built around Booker and Ayton. I just wish there were more options out there that showed promise.

Evans we discussed.

Exum is unproven, injury-prone, and can't shoot (but is still one of my favorite options!).

VanVleet may be hard to get, and likely has limited upside (though another favorite of mine).

Bradley and Smart aren't true point guards and are both kind of a mess on offense.

IT is insufferable both on and off the court imho.

CP3 is a pipe dream (and would be a mistake anyway at his age and the contract he'd want).

Payton lost fans in Phoenix almost as quicly as he gained them last year.

Teodosic is slow with foot problems.

Rondo is a bad fit with a young group and a first-time head coach.

Parker and Rose are depreciating assets.

Napier, Ferrell, and Larkin are back-ups.

So...Who's available in the trade market besides Beverley, Schroder, Lonzo, and Kemba?

Dragic...Rozier...Brogdon

Lowry if he is legitimately available.

 

[pokerface]

I think it's more about the Suns finding the right players. Spending assets for the sake of doing it doesn't work.

I've done some reading recently and they mentioned next season will be better for the free agency maket for the Suns. We have Chandler and Dudley coming off the books and Knight will be in the last year of his contract (which could be useful). Plus there will be numerous players on the market.

I know McD wants to dabble in free agency but like you I don't want him blowing money for the sake of blowing it. I'd rather we wait until next season unless it's some 'no brainer' move.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just a theoretical question. Not making any proposal. If LeBron and CP3 came to the Suns this summer (Warren, Chriss, Chandler, and Dudley traded elsewhere), is that a team that could compete at the highest level now?

CP3, Knight
Booker, Daniels
JJ, Bridges
LeBron, Bender
Ayton, Williams (?)

Again, not trying to suggest this as some sort of reality. I am just trying to gauge how far away we really are from competing. It seems to me that roster should be able to make some waves, especially if you could sign some quality vet free agents on minimum deals to fill out the roster.

Again please. I am not suggesting it, I am just looking at what might be necessary for us to do to compete in the future.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I've done some reading recently and they mentioned next season will be better for the free agency maket for the Suns. We have Chandler and Dudley coming off the books and Knight will be in the last year of his contract (which could be useful). Plus there will be numerous players on the market.

I know McD wants to dabble in free agency but like you I don't want him blowing money for the sake of blowing it. I'd rather we wait until next season unless it's some 'no brainer' move.

If we could get Booker to wait to sign his extension until next summer, it would really help that cause. It would make no difference in the money he makes, but there is always an injury risk.

We probably just give him the money now unless he suggests it himself.

 

[Errntknght]

I wouldn't be surprised if Lowry is available. Toronto has two backups that are both promising PGs in Vanvleet and Delon Wright. They played 1500 mins each and Vanvleet in particular played at crunch time. If they can move Lowry they can keep both young guys but otherwise they can't afford them. VV is an RFA this year and Delon next year and they'll both get offers. Frankly, I'd rather get Wright because he's got good size at 6'5 and Vanvleet is 6'0. I surmised a couple of weeks back that they might move Lowry in order to keep the young guns - I don't he'll be highly sought after at 29mil and 32 years old, so I'm expecting they'll be forced to let one go. I also expect they prefer to keep VV, so they might trade Wright for a draft pick since we can easily absorb his salary and they won't want any salary back. Milwaukee's pick should do it but heck a couple of second rounders might do it, too. We'd have a year to look him over before he becomes an RFA. This won't fly if VV gets an offer they can't see their way to match.

I'm not itching to do it because that will likely take the roster spot that we need for Harrison - and I'd love to see Ouchie-Z get shocked good!

 

[pokerface]

Just a theoretical question. Not making any proposal. If LeBron and CP3 came to the Suns this summer (Warren, Chriss, Chandler, and Dudley traded elsewhere), is that a team that could compete at the highest level now?

CP3, Knight
Booker, Daniels
JJ, Bridges
LeBron, Bender
Ayton, Williams (?)

Again, not trying to suggest this as some sort of reality. I am just trying to gauge how far away we really are from competing. It seems to me that roster should be able to make some waves, especially if you could sign some quality vet free agents on minimum deals to fill out the roster.

Again please. I am not suggesting it, I am just looking at what might be necessary for us to do to compete in the future.

Heck ...Lebron and Cp3 by themselves would put us in the playoffs practially. Then you add Booker and Ayton to that mix and then we'd have talent and depth at every position. The only knock is our team would be relativly young and still a tad unproven. I would classify that team as "X-Factor"...meaning they are capable of anything.

Could they contend? Sure! Would they? Ahh...who knows. I like them on paper!

 

[pokerface]

Honestly I don't give a crap about free agency. I'm not interested in some stop gap measure for this season. Let's just plug in Brandon Knight and let frenchie play back up. Save our money and let players come off the books next season and then be major players.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I've done some reading recently and they mentioned next season will be better for the free agency maket for the Suns. We have Chandler and Dudley coming off the books and Knight will be in the last year of his contract (which could be useful). Plus there will be numerous players on the market.

I know McD wants to dabble in free agency but like you I don't want him blowing money for the sake of blowing it. I'd rather we wait until next season unless it's some 'no brainer' move.

If that's the road they take, then follow Philadelphia's lead. They signed J.J. Redick to a one year contract at big money. That allowed them to improve this year while maintaining cap flexibility next year. I think it would be a mistake not to address the point guard situation this offseason. Give our young players a floor general they can grow with or learn from at the very least.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Honestly I don't give a crap about free agency. I'm not interested in some stop gap measure for this season. Let's just plug in Brandon Knight and let frenchie play back up. Save our money and let players come off the books next season and then be major players.

Plugging in Brandon Knight is my least favorite scenario. Let's give our generational center prospect every chance to succeed, starting with a point guard who will pass to him once in awhile.

"Frenchie" is not a moniker worthy of our potential PGOF. I much prefer the nickname his teammates gave him: "Swaggy E."

 

[Hoop Head]

Honestly I don't give a crap about free agency. I'm not interested in some stop gap measure for this season. Let's just plug in Brandon Knight and let frenchie play back up. Save our money and let players come off the books next season and then be major players.

The problem with that is we won't be players because of Booker's extension. His salary will immediately fill the space that Chandler and Dudley's deals will make. So the idea of waiting isn't realistic. It's now or never, in a way. While they can push for Booker to wait to sign an extension, that's a faulty plan that may backfire and isn't worth the risk. So they need to spend their cap space this year, or make a trade to fill it, or lose it completely. I like ColdPickleNacho's plan on spending wisely but on a short term plan like Reddick signed with Philly, overpaying him for 1 year to fill the space and I believe they have some early bird rights to resign him, possibly. Regardless of that, doing a deal like that wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

A couple things I noticed looking over advanced stats on point guards:

1. Spencer Dinwiddie has an excellent assist/turnover ratio.

2. VanVleet and Exum had fantastic net ratings last year.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=G

Much more impressive for VanVleet, given that Exum barely played last year.

I'd say VanVleet's probably my favorite option among free agents right now. He's probably never going to be a star, and he's 5'11 without otherworldly athleticism. However, the advanced stats are great. He's solid on offense and defense, won't hog the ball, and will hit his shots. An undrafted free agent who has worked his way up to a Sixth Man of the Year candidate, he's 24 years old and looks like he will put in the work to continue improving.

As mentioned before, there's a better chance than zero the Raptors could let him go given they have Lowry and Delon Wright on the roster.

Here's a good read on him:

https://ca.nba.com/news/fred-vanvle...u-williams-raptors/1jk50yxxe5bb51dcgut4vpihwh

Two years removed from being undrafted, VanVleet was one of the more impactful players in the NBA this season. Despite coming off the bench for only 20 minutes per game, the Raptors outscored opponents by a total of 352 points when he was on the court during the regular season. It put him behind 18 players in raw plus-minus, a list that includes the likes of James Harden, Stephen Curry, Joel Embiid, Russell Westbrook and Toronto's All-Star backcourt of Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan - though VanVleet was the only full-time bench player to finish the season in the top-30.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean...I have watched him...just not a lot this season when he supposedly turned a corner.

But point taken. I'm not going to die on the Tyreke Evans hill, particularly with my aversion to ball-dominant point guards and a roster that should be built around Booker and Ayton. I just wish there were more options out there that showed promise.

Evans we discussed.

Exum is unproven, injury-prone, and can't shoot (but is still one of my favorite options!).

VanVleet may be hard to get, and likely has limited upside (though another favorite of mine).

Bradley and Smart aren't true point guards and are both kind of a mess on offense.

IT is insufferable both on and off the court imho.

CP3 is a pipe dream (and would be a mistake anyway at his age and the contract he'd want).

Payton lost fans in Phoenix almost as quicly as he gained them last year.

Teodosic is slow with foot problems.

Rondo is a bad fit with a young group and a first-time head coach.

Parker and Rose are depreciating assets.

Napier, Ferrell, and Larkin are back-ups.

So...Who's available in the trade market besides Beverley, Schroder, Lonzo, and Kemba?

Dragic...Rozier...Brogdon

Yeah no doubt it’s a tough horizon. I think I’d gamble in van vleet. Good numbers in limited role. Was a winner in college. I think you just have to be absolutely certain the contract is reasonable. Mcds been pretty good with getting reasonable contracts in the past.