Free agent priority #1: Alex Mack - Cleveland - C

[Krangodnzr]

I don't see those drafties as studs. The best C's in the game are almost all 1st or 2nd rounders. Mack, Mangold, Wood and Pouncey, all first rounders. Kalil, and Unger 2nd rounders. Also consider that Mack is 28 and makes 5 mil a season, offering him 6 mil per year is just under 3 mil more than we already offer Sendlein. I would rather pay 6 mil to Mack and have a top player in the middle of our line than 3 mil to an average guy who gets pushed back in the pocket as often as not.

If I was GM, I would sign Alex Mack in FA, and draft Brandon Scherff OT Iowa in round 2 if South Carolina's Corey Robinson or Auburn's Greg Robinson don't come out. Sowell, Potter, Massie and Scherff to battle at OT, Cooper, Fanaika and Watford to battle at OG and Mack at C. Plenty of young, cheap talent to develop around a Mack and, hopefully, Cooper. If the coaches don;t like Massie or Sowell that much, you can still draft a tackle in round 1 or 3 well OR sign a vet FA like Winston again.

I don't get your love for Robinson. He's an ok college LT, but he will be eaten alive in the pros. Shell (nephew of Art) is the true stud on the real USC's OL.

I watch South Carolina nearly every week (my #2 college team). Who I want is Mike Davis and Bruce (Andre's cousin) Ellington. I loved Ace Sanders last year, and Ellington is that scheme versatile WR/RB hybrid to fill out you #3/#4 WR position. Mike Davis is every bit as good, if not better, than Kadeem Carey. He's a bruiser with homerun hitting speed and would instantly be our best RB.

 

[Totally_Red]

Wrong. We NEED a long term solution at QB. We NEED a significant upgrade to our offensive line and specifically LT. We NEED to be able to extend Patrick Peterson's deal while also being able to field a competitive team. We NEED a legitimate outside pass rush threat. These are all things we NEED to do and make top priority. We SHOULD offer Dansby a fair, multiyear deal which keeps him in AZ but is also reflective of his age and position. I feel that is a MAX of 2 years 8 mil w/ possibly a team option for a 3rd year.

I agree with this.

As much as I want to retain 'Los for the short-term, the Cardinals can't afford to break the bank for him at this point. $4 million per year is more than fair to both sides IMO. Guarantee most of it if necessary, but if another team wants to pay him more, we have to let him walk unfortunately.

 

[oaken1]

Los aint goin nowhere....dude played the field for a couple of seasons, then came home to help his draft class take the home team on another SB run....

when we get there again...don't forget to send Denny Green a card

 

[Duckjake]

You wanted options, those are some. I can't say they would all be better, but they each have their merits.

Again, I don't want to get rid of Dansby, but I am not willing to triple his salary to keep him around at age 32. This time around, if he wants to stay in AZ, he is going to have to be self aware and give a little.

No I wanted to know who all the guys were that could easily replace Dansby.

SILBs are a dime a dozen in the NFL, especially those Dansby's age.

Looking at LB salaries around the NFL I don't see Dansby asking for too much. His agent will know that the market price for Free Agents outside of a handful of top guys has dropped quite a bit.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't get your love for Robinson. He's an ok college LT, but he will be eaten alive in the pros. Shell (nephew of Art) is the true stud on the real USC's OL.

I watch South Carolina nearly every week (my #2 college team). Who I want is Mike Davis and Bruce (Andre's cousin) Ellington. I loved Ace Sanders last year, and Ellington is that scheme versatile WR/RB hybrid to fill out you #3/#4 WR position. Mike Davis is every bit as good, if not better, than Kadeem Carey. He's a bruiser with homerun hitting speed and would instantly be our best RB.

I think you mean Corey Robinson...? I like his athleticism and think it could play at LT in the Pros. I like his progress and potential as he is very new to the tackle position being a former defensive lineman. He is raw and I need to see more, but he is on the "watch" list. I will be sure to look a bit harder after your comments though. Always nice to get a college fan's take on a one of his players as you will probably watch more snaps than I will.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In our hurry to replace members of this team, has anyone considered how the chemistry of this team will be affected? Look at what happens to a lot of Super Bowl winners. The next season, they lose some of their players to FA and suddenly, they struggle. You can load a team up with top notch athletes but that doesn't mean you will win football games. So much depends on the coach, coaching staff and management. It takes all phases of the game to result in wins and that doesn't mean JUST good players.

Right now, the chemistry is really good and everyone accepts their roll without question. Why wouldn't you want to keep the same guys and keep that chemistry intact?

I see Dansby as being one of the chief ingredients in the chemistry of this team. We NEED to keep him around.

But I thought he was a "loser", 40? I believe that's what you called him for years after Graves bungled negotiations for years and Dansby walked out the door.

But I agree...a solid two year deal at 8 million should get it done and would be worth it, IMO.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think you mean Corey Robinson...? I like his athleticism and think it could play at LT in the Pros. I like his progress and potential as he is very new to the tackle position being a former defensive lineman. He is raw and I need to see more, but he is on the "watch" list. I will be sure to look a bit harder after your comments though. Always nice to get a college fan's take on a one of his players as you will probably watch more snaps than I will.

Yes I'm talking about Corey. After I saw you touting him, I kept a closer eye on him and he looks like he struggles a bit with speed rushers.

I would look (begrudgingly) more at Richardson from Tennessee if I'm looking for a OT in the mid to late 1st round. Even then I think the DL/OLB talent is better for that part of the first round. I think our defense is pretty good, but it would be folly to stand pat and not add to it, especially considering Abraham's age.

 

[football karma]

Looking at LB salaries around the NFL I don't see Dansby asking for too much. His agent will know that the market price for Free Agents outside of a handful of top guys has dropped quite a bit.

I think Karlos will ask for a great deal. He won't get it, but Karlos always had a very high opinion of his own stature-- and this is arguably coming off what might be his best season ever.

Karlos will expect to be paid, and sometimes when reality hits expectations -- it's easier to go to a new team rather than the one who first offered reality.

Today in the AZ Rep - they had an article on the one year contract guys and Keim noted he has already started discussions with a few of them-- but that those players may want to see what the market is in the offseason.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Draft a guy in the third round. Cheap and easy.

Yep.

Nope. You build your offensive line from the middle out, not the other way around. People want the LT to protect the blindside, but having a good C makes the entire line better.

Sendlein is in the bottom of the league and needs an upgrade.

 

[Cardiac]

Nope. You build your offensive line from the middle out, not the other way around. People want the LT to protect the blindside, but having a good C makes the entire line better.

Sendlein is in the bottom of the league and needs an upgrade.

So that's why we saw 3 LT's drafted in the top 5 last year. How many OT's taken in rd 1 and how many OG's & OC's?

Sendlein is FAR from being bottom of the league.

I do believe to have a great Oline you must have a Very good OC and I put OC just behind LT in matter of importance. Thing is the GM's in the NFL don't believe this to be the case or we would see many more OC's taken earlier in the draft.

 

[Bodha]

I don't see those drafties as studs. The best C's in the game are almost all 1st or 2nd rounders. Mack, Mangold, Wood and Pouncey, all first rounders. Kalil, and Unger 2nd rounders. Also consider that Mack is 28 and makes 5 mil a season, offering him 6 mil per year is just under 3 mil more than we already offer Sendlein. I would rather pay 6 mil to Mack and have a top player in the middle of our line than 3 mil to an average guy who gets pushed back in the pocket as often as not.

Why are those draftees not studs? Because they arent 1st rounders? Dallas last year used a 1st rounder on C travis frederick of Wisconsin. Many were shocked because they had him graded as a 3rd rounder. Some 4th. Guys doing just fine so far. Round and value are irrelevant. If a guys good, hes good. Carl Nicks, the guard, prior to his toe injury was one of the most dominant Gs in the NFL for a couple years. He was a 5th rounder. Danny Watkins, 1st round G to the Eagles, was an complete bust.



I dont think you even know who those 3 guys are or what teams they play for. I cant prove that because youll probably just go google them before you reply, but the way you just dismiss them as "I dont think they are studs" says alot. All 3 are in fact better C prospects than any C in the 2013 draft (Frederick included).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So that's why we saw 3 LT's drafted in the top 5 last year. How many OT's taken in rd 1 and how many OG's & OC's?

Sendlein is FAR from being bottom of the league.

I do believe to have a great Oline you must have a Very good OC and I put OC just behind LT in matter of importance. Thing is the GM's in the NFL don't believe this to be the case or we would see many more OC's taken earlier in the draft.

I know that 3 of them were taken in the top 5 last year. None of their respective lines got much better either. Look at the good offensive lines in the NFL and you will see a good C anchoring it.

 

[Gandhi]

Besides from field goals and extra points, the center is the only player who are certain to touch the ball at any offensive play. He is also responsible from making some line-calls and adjustments, and at least in theory he should have the most difficult coming quickly out of his stand as he have to snap the ball first.

I would without a doubt make it a priority to upgrade from Sendlein. He may not be outright bad but he can easily be upgraded. Alex Mack is, along with Joe Thomas, the really bright spot on that offensive line, and I believe he would do wonders for just about any other offensive line save those that already has really god centers. I like Travis Swanson and Hroniss Grasu in the draft but they probably wouldn’t have the impact Mack would, and I would not have a problem with paying Mack a little more than your typical center.

I know it would make for a very young and somewhat inexperienced line, but if they could upgrade left tackle, center and right guard through free agency and the draft it could possibly become a strength further down the road. I think Greg Robinson from Auburn will be a stud-left tackle once he comes out, but he is just a redshirt sophomore so it probably won’t be this time. Cyrus Kouandjio has all the talent in the world but needs to put it all together. Maybe he will slide because of that, or maybe he won’t came out at all. Some goes for Antonio Richardson. As for guard, I really like David Yankey out of Stanford. I also think it would be an enormous upgrade to pick Cedric Ogbuehi out of Texas A&M and move him back to guard, and in top of that I like the two guards out of Texas, Trey Hopkins and Mason Walters.

I guess my point basically is that it is possible to lay the foundation to a potentially dominant offensive line in just this one offseason.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

. Thing is the GM's in the NFL don't believe this to be the case or we would see many more OC's taken earlier in the draft.

I think more of a factor is that, for some reason, C's play forever and when a team gets a good one, they keep them around for 10-12 years. That limits number of OC's being drafted early on, but the good ones still get nabbed relatively early in the draft.

 

[Reddog]

Besides from field goals and extra points, the center is the only player who are certain to touch the ball at any offensive play. He is also responsible from making some line-calls and adjustments, and at least in theory he should have the most difficult coming quickly out of his stand as he have to snap the ball first.

I would without a doubt make it a priority to upgrade from Sendlein. He may not be outright bad but he can easily be upgraded. Alex Mack is, along with Joe Thomas, the really bright spot on that offensive line, and I believe he would do wonders for just about any other offensive line save those that already has really god centers. I like Travis Swanson and Hroniss Grasu in the draft but they probably wouldn’t have the impact Mack would, and I would not have a problem with paying Mack a little more than your typical center.

I know it would make for a very young and somewhat inexperienced line, but if they could upgrade left tackle, center and right guard through free agency and the draft it could possibly become a strength further down the road. I think Greg Robinson from Auburn will be a stud-left tackle once he comes out, but he is just a redshirt sophomore so it probably won’t be this time. Cyrus Kouandjio has all the talent in the world but needs to put it all together. Maybe he will slide because of that, or maybe he won’t came out at all. Some goes for Antonio Richardson. As for guard, I really like David Yankey out of Stanford. I also think it would be an enormous upgrade to pick Cedric Ogbuehi out of Texas A&M and move him back to guard, and in top of that I like the two guards out of Texas, Trey Hopkins and Mason Walters.

I guess my point basically is that it is possible to lay the foundation to a potentially dominant offensive line in just this one offseason.

I don't really think guard is a problem. If we are upgrading the line it goes LT, blocking TE then upgrade at center. To me that center comes after QB of the future, Pass rusher. DT and safety are also positions to look at. Center in a nice to have not a have to have.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Besides from field goals and extra points, the center is the only player who are certain to touch the ball at any offensive play. He is also responsible from making some line-calls and adjustments, and at least in theory he should have the most difficult coming quickly out of his stand as he have to snap the ball first.

I would without a doubt make it a priority to upgrade from Sendlein. He may not be outright bad but he can easily be upgraded. Alex Mack is, along with Joe Thomas, the really bright spot on that offensive line, and I believe he would do wonders for just about any other offensive line save those that already has really god centers. I like Travis Swanson and Hroniss Grasu in the draft but they probably wouldn’t have the impact Mack would, and I would not have a problem with paying Mack a little more than your typical center.

I know it would make for a very young and somewhat inexperienced line, but if they could upgrade left tackle, center and right guard through free agency and the draft it could possibly become a strength further down the road. I think Greg Robinson from Auburn will be a stud-left tackle once he comes out, but he is just a redshirt sophomore so it probably won’t be this time. Cyrus Kouandjio has all the talent in the world but needs to put it all together. Maybe he will slide because of that, or maybe he won’t came out at all. Some goes for Antonio Richardson. As for guard, I really like David Yankey out of Stanford. I also think it would be an enormous upgrade to pick Cedric Ogbuehi out of Texas A&M and move him back to guard, and in top of that I like the two guards out of Texas, Trey Hopkins and Mason Walters.

I guess my point basically is that it is possible to lay the foundation to a potentially dominant offensive line in just this one offseason.

If he's so easily upgraded, why is he still here?

 

[Cardiac]

I know that 3 of them were taken in the top 5 last year. None of their respective lines got much better either. Look at the good offensive lines in the NFL and you will see a good C anchoring it.

How many times to I have to say that I agree the OC is very important and I believe Sendlein can be upgraded?? Hopefully this time is the charm.

My point is that GM's seem to undervalue the position or maybe Cbus is correct and most teams have long tenured talented OC's. So we don't have to draft an OC early to get a quality one and Mulli's post that I agreed with is we can get a good one in the 3rd rd.

 

[Bodha]

Bottom line of this thread: Lets focus on the major needs first


If this team were a car, wed focus on the engine first. Not the peeling paint




Can Sendlein be upgraded? Sure. Is Center top priority? no

QB
OLB
LT
RT
RG
SS
C

 

[Chopper0080]

Why are those draftees not studs? Because they arent 1st rounders? Dallas last year used a 1st rounder on C travis frederick of Wisconsin. Many were shocked because they had him graded as a 3rd rounder. Some 4th. Guys doing just fine so far. Round and value are irrelevant. If a guys good, hes good. Carl Nicks, the guard, prior to his toe injury was one of the most dominant Gs in the NFL for a couple years. He was a 5th rounder. Danny Watkins, 1st round G to the Eagles, was an complete bust.



I dont think you even know who those 3 guys are or what teams they play for. I cant prove that because youll probably just go google them before you reply, but the way you just dismiss them as "I dont think they are studs" says alot. All 3 are in fact better C prospects than any C in the 2013 draft (Frederick included).

They are not studs because none of the C's in this draft are power C's. They are all finesse C's which is what we have in Sendlein. That is a problem in a division like the NFC West where the defensive lines are stacked. Why was Frederick overdrafted last year? Because he was a power OC which rarely are produced in the more finesse college football. None of these guys are which is what makes them different from a top C like Mack.

 

[Chopper0080]

Bottom line of this thread: Lets focus on the major needs first


If this team were a car, wed focus on the engine first. Not the peeling paint




Can Sendlein be upgraded? Sure. Is Center top priority? no

QB
OLB
LT
RT
RG
SS
C

QB is need #1, but it is a deep QB draft and there may not be one we like in the late teens and free agency won't have any options.

OLB is need #2, but our defense has been pretty good without one and the top options will be gone. That leads to higher risk factors due to the transition to the position. FA is pretty bare as well.

You say LT, but I say OL in general. I don't care where we upgrade the offensive line, but just that we do upgrade it. You could pay Albert or Monroe 10 mil, or you could spend 6 mil on Mack and then draft a OT in round 1 as it is deep in bottom first round options. That would upgrade two spots rather than one for less money. As far as OL priorities, you are also wrong. LT, C, LG, RT then RG depending on what OG you prefer to pull.

TE is huge IMO but if HOusler keeps this up I might start drinking the koolaid. Fiedorowicz out of Iowa in the 3rd isn't a bad option.

 

[Bodha]

They are not studs because none of the C's in this draft are power C's. They are all finesse C's which is what we have in Sendlein. That is a problem in a division like the NFC West where the defensive lines are stacked. Why was Frederick overdrafted last year? Because he was a power OC which rarely are produced in the more finesse college football. None of these guys are which is what makes them different from a top C like Mack.

Its football. Finesse, power!

Center, dont let that guy in front of you get to the QB....Capiche?

I dont care how you get it done. Whether you clobber him or twirl him around like a marionette. Stop over thinking this stuff.


And BTW, Cooper is considered 100% finesse. Warmack was the Power. Coop looked just fine prior to injury whereas Warmack struggled for his first few games. It does not matter.

You say LT, but I say OL in general. I don't care where we upgrade the offensive line, but just that we do upgrade it. You could pay Albert or Monroe 10 mil, or you could spend 6 mil on Mack and then draft a OT in round 1 as it is deep in bottom first round options. That would upgrade two spots rather than one for less money. As far as OL priorities, you are also wrong. LT, C, LG, RT then RG depending on what OG you prefer to pull.

OR you could draft olinemen and pay them a fraction of that, and spend that extra cash on resigning guys like PP. I say LT, but you say Oline in general like they are interchangeable?....no

LTs and Cs are not the same. Demarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Matthews, Aldon, Von Miller, Suggs. These guys dont match up on our interior line every snap. If you have a rock solid line from LG to RT, but have a shoddy LT, then your line will struggle mightily. LTs are the 2nd most important position on offense behind QB.


I agree we can upgrade every single position on the line, but what is it about Sendlein that makes you be on this mission to replace him specifically? He does a good job. I dont hear you throwing open the flood gates to replace Fanaika or Colledge, or even Winston. All of them have struggled more than Lyle this year at times.

Lastly, and most importantly, the Center is the Dad of the Oline. He calls everything. And so it helps having our C be one of the most senior guys in the entire lockeroom. How can you bring in a new face to be your leader on the line when he isnt even gelled in with the team yet? Lyle knows this team and culture as good as anyone, hes been here a long time. And so when we do bring in those young Oline pieces, having Lyle here is MUCH more valuable to us than having Mack.

 

[Chopper0080]

Its football. Finesse, power!

Center, dont let that guy in front of you get to the QB....Capiche?

I dont care how you get it done. Whether you clobber him or twirl him around like a marionette. Stop over thinking this stuff.


And BTW, Cooper is considered 100% finesse. Warmack was the Power. Coop looked just fine prior to injury whereas Warmack struggled for his first few games. It does not matter.



OR you could draft olinemen and pay them a fraction of that, and spend that extra cash on resigning guys like PP. I say LT, but you say Oline in general like they are interchangeable?....no

LTs and Cs are not the same. Demarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Matthews, Aldon, Von Miller, Suggs. These guys dont match up on our interior line every snap. If you have a rock solid line from LG to RT, but have a shoddy LT, then your line will struggle mightily. LTs are the 2nd most important position on offense behind QB.


I agree we can upgrade every single position on the line, but what is it about Sendlein that makes you be on this mission to replace him specifically? He does a good job. I dont hear you throwing open the flood gates to replace Fanaika or Colledge, or even Winston. All of them have struggled more than Lyle this year at times.

Lastly, and most importantly, the Center is the Dad of the Oline. He calls everything. And so it helps having our C be one of the most senior guys in the entire lockeroom. How can you bring in a new face to be your leader on the line when he isnt even gelled in with the team yet? Lyle knows this team and culture as good as anyone, hes been here a long time. And so when we do bring in those young Oline pieces, having Lyle here is MUCH more valuable to us than having Mack.

Well, finesse gets plays blown up do to inside penetration. Finesse gets the front of the pocket pushed back into the QB. Those are big issues for QBs when you don't have a top one or are trying to develop one. That is my point. You are correct that Sendlein is a serviceable C but IMO when you are going to have to develop a young QB, you need to give him the best chance to be successful. A C like Mack, who is a vet and can can be the "dad" you are looking for, fills every need physically from a C rather than have to compromise certain qualities like we do w/ Sendlein.

 

[Mulli]

I know that 3 of them were taken in the top 5 last year. None of their respective lines got much better either. Look at the good offensive lines in the NFL and you will see a good C anchoring it.

Patriots center, Wendell, was an undrafted free agent.

 

[Duckjake]

I know that 3 of them were taken in the top 5 last year. None of their respective lines got much better either. Look at the good offensive lines in the NFL and you will see a good C anchoring it.

Experienced Centers appear to be critical to championship teams. Last year SF had Goodwin, 11th NFL season and the Ravens Matt Birk, 14th NFL season.

Then you have guys like Dan Koppen, 10 years with the Patriots. Jeff Saturday 13 years with the Colts. Scott Wells 8 years in Green Bay. Olin Kreutz 13 years with the Bears. Robbie Tobeck was in his 12th NFL season when Seattle won the NFC Title in 2005. Kent Hull played 11 years for Buffalo and in all 4 of their Super Bowls.

And then there's Jeff Christy, who was in his 10th NFL season when Tampa won the SB. Christy was drafted by the Cardinals and never played a down for them.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Well, finesse gets plays blown up do to inside penetration. Finesse gets the front of the pocket pushed back into the QB. Those are big issues for QBs when you don't have a top one or are trying to develop one. That is my point. You are correct that Sendlein is a serviceable C but IMO when you are going to have to develop a young QB, you need to give him the best chance to be successful. A C like Mack, who is a vet and can can be the "dad" you are looking for, fills every need physically from a C rather than have to compromise certain qualities like we do w/ Sendlein.

Manning, with the Colts, had a 290 lb, udfa, finesse centre for a decade.