Free agent priority #1: Alex Mack - Cleveland - C

[sundevil04]

He's certainly worth making a run at. Max Unger is comparable in my book and her recently signed a deal making him the 4th highest paid Center in the NFL worth about 6mil a year. Over the next 2 years we're paying Sendlein 4.2/year and would save 2 mil against the cap by cutting him next year. If we gave Mack a contract matching Ungers, I'd have to say 99% of us would agree that Mack is worth 1.8 mil more /year than Sendlein.

Taking into consideration that cutting Colledge would save us another 2.8 Mil next year, the money is there to go after Mack.

 

[Bodha]

Well, finesse gets plays blown up do to inside penetration. Finesse gets the front of the pocket pushed back into the QB.

Where are you getting this stuff?

You have it locked in your mind that Finesse = Horrible, worthless player who gets manhandled.


Cooper was a finesse player all through college, and that play got him drafted #8 overall.

Finesse is just a play style. It means they are more of a technician (ie intelligent). Power can just mean your big stupid, strong, caveman like Warmack. This is the NFL, you cant just get by on your talent anymore, you have to be extremely smart and have sound technique.




I dont even know why this thread is 6 pages, it couldve been ended on page 1.

"We should get Mack!"

Sure, be cool, but we all know its not going to happen. bye

 

[Reddog]

He's certainly worth making a run at. Max Unger is comparable in my book and her recently signed a deal making him the 4th highest paid Center in the NFL worth about 6mil a year. Over the next 2 years we're paying Sendlein 4.2/year and would save 2 mil against the cap by cutting him next year. If we gave Mack a contract matching Ungers, I'd have to say 99% of us would agree that Mack is worth 1.8 mil more /year than Sendlein.

Taking into consideration that cutting Colledge would save us another 2.8 Mil next year, the money is there to go after Mack.

Sometimes there is more to it than bottom line dollars. If Sendlein is seen as a central figure in team chemistry I think the way he is treated is important. Not sure if Sendlein is such a player or if a trade is better than an outright cut but there seems to be some loyalty to him.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Its football. Finesse, power!

Center, dont let that guy in front of you get to the QB....Capiche?

I dont care how you get it done. Whether you clobber him or twirl him around like a marionette. Stop over thinking this stuff.


And BTW, Cooper is considered 100% finesse. Warmack was the Power. Coop looked just fine prior to injury whereas Warmack struggled for his first few games. It does not matter.



OR you could draft olinemen and pay them a fraction of that, and spend that extra cash on resigning guys like PP. I say LT, but you say Oline in general like they are interchangeable?....no

LTs and Cs are not the same. Demarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Matthews, Aldon, Von Miller, Suggs. These guys dont match up on our interior line every snap. If you have a rock solid line from LG to RT, but have a shoddy LT, then your line will struggle mightily. LTs are the 2nd most important position on offense behind QB.


I agree we can upgrade every single position on the line, but what is it about Sendlein that makes you be on this mission to replace him specifically? He does a good job. I dont hear you throwing open the flood gates to replace Fanaika or Colledge, or even Winston. All of them have struggled more than Lyle this year at times.

Lastly, and most importantly, the Center is the Dad of the Oline. He calls everything. And so it helps having our C be one of the most senior guys in the entire lockeroom. How can you bring in a new face to be your leader on the line when he isnt even gelled in with the team yet? Lyle knows this team and culture as good as anyone, hes been here a long time. And so when we do bring in those young Oline pieces, having Lyle here is MUCH more valuable to us than having Mack.

Where the hell do you get your info, seriously. Cooper is not consider 100% finesse...what the hell. Cooper has quicks, and that lends to a better level of technique but make no doubt about it...Copper is a strong guy and has power. The point being is that the center position does not allow for too much finesse when facing an NFL nose tackle. We are in a division loaded with defensive power. It is not even just about protecting the QB because there is something called a running game. If your center can not move the DL backwards, forget about running in the gaps up the middle. There is no fancy move other than power to pushing a DL as a nose tackle backward

 

[Duckjake]

Sometimes there is more to it than bottom line dollars. If Sendlein is seen as a central figure in team chemistry I think the way he is treated is important. Not sure if Sendlein is such a player or if a trade is better than an outright cut but there seems to be some loyalty to him.

I just watched some of the Colts game and then the Steelers game. I didn't see Mack doing anything that Sendlein doesn't do. No sense in messing with continuity for a guy who might be 1% better.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Where the hell do you get your info, seriously. Cooper is not consider 100% finesse...what the hell. Cooper has quicks, and that lends to a better level of technique but make no doubt about it...Copper is a strong guy and has power. The point being is that the center position does not allow for too much finesse when facing an NFL nose tackle. We are in a division loaded with defensive power. It is not even just about protecting the QB because there is something called a running game. If your center can not move the DL backwards, forget about running in the gaps up the middle. There is no fancy move other than power to pushing a DL as a nose tackle backward

They continually double team the better nose tackles.

 

[Jetstream Green]

They continually double team the better nose tackles.

Would be nice if we did not have to because Seattle is loaded with DL talent across the board. We left a tough NFC East which is now mediocre and entered the division from hell lol

 

[8ndkorner]

right on. Left hand.

The team has been building chemistry. Enjoy the moment. They are winning.

Absolutely. after years of coaching and personnel changes, the pieces are coming together (again). As a Cards fan that represents hope and in BASK first year I'm really good with that.

 

[Duckjake]

Would be nice if we did not have to because Seattle is loaded with DL talent across the board. We left a tough NFC East which is now mediocre and entered the division from hell lol

All teams double NTs. Not just the Cardinals.

Cards are getting better at passing off the NT from C to G also.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I like Sendlein as a player and I'm also a Longhorn homer, but I will also say that a better option could be found as well and if the opportunity arises and your able to move past average to good at center, as a team you take it

 

[Duckjake]

I like Sendlein as a player and I'm also a Longhorn homer, but I will also say that a better option could be found as well and if the opportunity arises and your able to move past average to good at center, as a team you take it

We already have good. We'd have to move to great. The position that desperately needs an upgrade is Right Tackle. From watching the coaches film Winston's whiffs just jump out at you. Hopefully Massie will be able to step in and upgrade us from poor to average.

Talk about a play killing combo: asking Winston and Housler to lead block together.

A guy who likely fits the Cardinals mode of a free agent is G Kevin Boothe of the Giants. A big strong veteran with a low salary who has started every game for the Giants the last 3 years and can also play Center. That is if he could move to RG from the left side. The right side of our offensive line really needs improvement.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

What about Jason Worilds? He has made some money the last couple of

games. But how much is the question. This former second round pick

is fixing to hit the market and is tired of sitting behind Woodley and Jones.

 

[Chopper0080]

Manning, with the Colts, had a 290 lb, udfa, finesse centre for a decade.

Two points on this...

1. The Colts, like the Broncos are now, were a finesse team. A finesse C works for that type of offense and in the crappy AFC South. If you want to be able to handle big, physical defensive lines, finesse gets your C pushed into your QBs face.

2. We don't have Peyton Manning and will not be in a position to draft a QB #1 overall. The later you pick a QB, generally the more warts you have to manage. A physical C keeps pressure out of a QBs face which makes him comfortable moving up in the pocket when he feels edge pressure rather than scramble around and take his eyes away from down the field.

 

[Chopper0080]

I just watched some of the Colts game and then the Steelers game. I didn't see Mack doing anything that Sendlein doesn't do. No sense in messing with continuity for a guy who might be 1% better.

This is an argument I can understand even though I don't agree with it. If you don't think Mack is much of an upgrade over Sendlein, I get not wanting him. It is the idea that we don't need more from our C that boggles my mind because Sendlein is average at best.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This is an argument I can understand even though I don't agree with it. If you don't think Mack is much of an upgrade over Sendlein, I get not wanting him. It is the idea that we don't need more from our C that boggles my mind because Sendlein is average at best.

Sendlein is just not that good and gets bullied back into the QB far too often. I seem to notice it more against 3-4 teams when he has to engage one on one much more.

He's not the worst C in the league but why not upgrade if we get the chance?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Sendlein is just not that good and gets bullied back into the QB far too often. I seem to notice it more against 3-4 teams when he has to engage one on one much more.

He's not the worst C in the league but why not upgrade if we get the chance?

We need to upgrade at the C position for sure. Sendlein is not the answer.

 

[Duckjake]

This is an argument I can understand even though I don't agree with it. If you don't think Mack is much of an upgrade over Sendlein, I get not wanting him. It is the idea that we don't need more from our C that boggles my mind because Sendlein is average at best.

Sorry but in watching several games using the All-22 I just don't see this awful Center everyone keeps talking about. What I do see are our Guards getting blown up and horrendous blocking by a certain TE who continues to be called on to make key blocks that should be obvious he can't make.

As I wrote before from what I've seen in watching replays getting Kevin Boothe at 1/4th the cost of Mack and putting him in for Fanaika and we'd have an instant upgrade to the offensive line.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sorry but in watching several games using the All-22 I just don't see this awful Center everyone keeps talking about. What I do see are our Guards getting blown up and horrendous blocking by a certain TE who continues to be called on to make key blocks that should be obvious he can't make.

As I wrote before from what I've seen in watching replays getting Kevin Boothe at 1/4th the cost of Mack and putting him in for Fanaika and we'd have an instant upgrade to the offensive line.

Today I saw Sendlein trip Colledge when he was getting blown back and take a holding penalty while also getting his qb hit. He got abused today. Don't know why we are seeing different things but we apparently are.

 

[Duckjake]

Today I saw Sendlein trip Colledge when he was getting blown back and take a holding penalty while also getting his qb hit. He got abused today. Don't know why we are seeing different things but we apparently are.

You're talking about one play. What I saw was Sendlein, by himself, moving the nose tackle out and Mendenhall running through the gap he created several times. Watched the entire first half, about 35 plays, and the play you mention is one of only a couple I saw where Sendlein was beaten badly. That guy on the other side of the line is getting paid too and no one is going to win every time.

But watching the condensed version of the game makes it a little difficult to be real accurate in assessing the line play so I'll look at the game again when the All-22 comes online Wednesday.

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree.

I would not pay a center 6 or 7 million a year. No way.

You can if every other player on the offensive line depth chart is making the minimum salary. Winston doesn't deserve to come back, and neither does Colledge, probably.

That means, if those guys are gone, you either have rookies or minimum-salary types across the line--expecting to address LT in the draft early.

When that's the case, you can sign a mid-level salary veteran to anchor the line. The average salary of the line would be less than $2M

 

[Jetstream Green]

Here is another possibly why maybe Sendlein has looked really bad on some plays, playing next to Colledge could do that to you if you feel a need to compensate for him lol

 

[Duckjake]

Here is another possibly why maybe Sendlein has looked really bad on some plays, playing next to Colledge could do that to you if you feel a need to compensate for him lol

Is there some other Lyle Sendlein on the team? Because I just don't see this guy you all keep talking about who gets blown up every play out on the field wearing #63.

Maybe you guys are getting him confused with #73 who does get blown up regularly.

In watching the replay and focusing on the center of the offensive line one thing I noticed is that it appears the Cardinals drop back too far when setting up in pass protection and that's why the pocket is so thin. They also wait for the defenders to come to them rather than engaging the pass rushers. Which is what I see other teams offensive lines do.

But then we are supposed to have a coaching staff full of offensive line geniuses so who knows?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You can if every other player on the offensive line depth chart is making the minimum salary. Winston doesn't deserve to come back, and neither does Colledge, probably.

That means, if those guys are gone, you either have rookies or minimum-salary types across the line--expecting to address LT in the draft early.

When that's the case, you can sign a mid-level salary veteran to anchor the line. The average salary of the line would be less than $2M

Agreed.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is there some other Lyle Sendlein on the team? Because I just don't see this guy you all keep talking about who gets blown up every play out on the field wearing #63.

Maybe you guys are getting him confused with #73 who does get blown up regularly.

In watching the replay and focusing on the center of the offensive line one thing I noticed is that it appears the Cardinals drop back too far when setting up in pass protection and that's why the pocket is so thin. They also wait for the defenders to come to them rather than engaging the pass rushers. Which is what I see other teams offensive lines do.

But then we are supposed to have a coaching staff full of offensive line geniuses so who knows?

I give them some credit. We have run the ball with some success and passed the ball with some success, and this is our line

LT: Bradley Sowell
LG: Daryn College
OC: Lyle Sendlien
RG: Paul Fanaika
RT: Eric Winston

Seriously, they are geniuses if they get anything out of a line of backups, and a debatable starting center.

 

[Cardiac]

I give them some credit. We have run the ball with some success and passed the ball with some success, and this is our line

LT: Bradley Sowell
LG: Daryn College
OC: Lyle Sendlien
RG: Paul Fanaika
RT: Eric Winston

Seriously, they are geniuses if they get anything out of a line of backups, and a debatable starting center.

I agree with this. Not one of these dudes was a first rd pick. Two of them are UDFA's and Fanaika was a 6th or 7th rd pick and was out of football last year.

Cooper comes back next year but we need to invest some more draft capital into this Oline.