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Redheart

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http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/ARI/6432235

Cardinals report: Inside slant
June 16, 2003


ANECDOTES | Strategy and personnel


Hoping to avoid repeat of several embarrassing and costly mistakes in recent drafts, Cardinals Vice President of Operations Rod Graves reorganized the college scouting department, demoting the national director to area scout and restoring power to a controversial figure from the team's past.

While the moves enable the Cardinals to say they've made change, they're essentially making the scouting department take the fall for such picks as defensive tackle Wendell Bryant, the 2002 first-round pick who is showing alarming signs of being their latest high-round bust; and running back Thomas Jones, the 2000 first-round pick who is on the trade block and likely will be cut before camp if no deal is worked.

While scouts prepare reports, they're not the ones pulling the trigger on draft decisions, and the team's higher ups always have had final "cross check" duty on prospects rated highly by the scouting department.

Graves and George, a former general manager who was run off in the mid-1900s when Cardinals' drafts were no more effective than their recent ones, and Graves will be at the top of the pyramid with final cross-check authority on all players.

They will function essentially as co national directors of the department.

Overseeing the East is Steve Keim, a former area scout. He will supervise area scouts Lonnie Young, just hired to scout the Northeast; Bob Mazie in the South, and Jerry Hardaway, the former national director, who becomes East Coast area scout.

Veteran scout Jim Carmody is the new supervisor of the West, overseeing area scouts Bill Dekraker in the West, George Belu in the Midwest, and Bob Mazie staying in the South.

When an organization operates as secretly the Cardinals do, it is difficult to assess who should take responsibility for the long-standing malfeasance that predates both Graves and Boone.

The Cardinals have been one of the worst franchises in pro sports for more than two decades.

While it is true that decisions are made on players based on evaluations by scouts, ultimately those pulling the trigger on moves have to accept responsibility for them.

There has been plenty of blame to go around for the Cardinals, who are among a multitude of teams mulling whether to pull out of the national scouting combine services. The Cardinals belong to National. The other major service is BLESTO.

This reorganization could enable them to function effectively in that new environment, in which they clearly would have no one to blame but themselves for draft-day decisions.

Recently, the Cardinals have seemed to miss the boat not only on first-round picks Bryant and Jones but also first-day selections of cornerback Michael Stone (Round 2, 2002), defensive tackle Darwin Walker (Round 3, 2000), linebacker Johnny Rutledge (Round 2, 1999), defensive end Thomas Burke (Round 3, 1999), cornerback Tom Knight (Round 1, 1997), cornerback Ty Howard (Round 3, 1997), running back Leeland McElroy (Round 2, 1996), tight end Johnny McWilliams (Round 3, 1996), and quarterback Stoney Case (Round 3, 1995).

Copyright (C) 2003 The Sports Xchange. All Rights Reserved.
 

BW52

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Originally posted by Redheart
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/ARI/6432235

Cardinals report: Inside slant
June 16, 2003


ANECDOTES | Strategy and personnel


Hoping to avoid repeat of several embarrassing and costly mistakes in recent drafts, Cardinals Vice President of Operations Rod Graves reorganized the college scouting department, demoting the national director to area scout and restoring power to a controversial figure from the team's past.

While the moves enable the Cardinals to say they've made change, they're essentially making the scouting department take the fall for such picks as defensive tackle Wendell Bryant, the 2002 first-round pick who is showing alarming signs of being their latest high-round bust; and running back Thomas Jones, the 2000 first-round pick who is on the trade block and likely will be cut before camp if no deal is worked.

While scouts prepare reports, they're not the ones pulling the trigger on draft decisions, and the team's higher ups always have had final "cross check" duty on prospects rated highly by the scouting department.

Graves and George, a former general manager who was run off in the mid-1900s when Cardinals' drafts were no more effective than their recent ones, and Graves will be at the top of the pyramid with final cross-check authority on all players.

They will function essentially as co national directors of the department.

Overseeing the East is Steve Keim, a former area scout. He will supervise area scouts Lonnie Young, just hired to scout the Northeast; Bob Mazie in the South, and Jerry Hardaway, the former national director, who becomes East Coast area scout.

Veteran scout Jim Carmody is the new supervisor of the West, overseeing area scouts Bill Dekraker in the West, George Belu in the Midwest, and Bob Mazie staying in the South.

When an organization operates as secretly the Cardinals do, it is difficult to assess who should take responsibility for the long-standing malfeasance that predates both Graves and Boone.

The Cardinals have been one of the worst franchises in pro sports for more than two decades.

While it is true that decisions are made on players based on evaluations by scouts, ultimately those pulling the trigger on moves have to accept responsibility for them.

There has been plenty of blame to go around for the Cardinals, who are among a multitude of teams mulling whether to pull out of the national scouting combine services. The Cardinals belong to National. The other major service is BLESTO.

This reorganization could enable them to function effectively in that new environment, in which they clearly would have no one to blame but themselves for draft-day decisions.

Recently, the Cardinals have seemed to miss the boat not only on first-round picks Bryant and Jones but also first-day selections of cornerback Michael Stone (Round 2, 2002), defensive tackle Darwin Walker (Round 3, 2000), linebacker Johnny Rutledge (Round 2, 1999), defensive end Thomas Burke (Round 3, 1999), cornerback Tom Knight (Round 1, 1997), cornerback Ty Howard (Round 3, 1997), running back Leeland McElroy (Round 2, 1996), tight end Johnny McWilliams (Round 3, 1996), and quarterback Stoney Case (Round 3, 1995).

Copyright (C) 2003 The Sports Xchange. All Rights Reserved. [/B

How is Wendell Bryant "showing" alarming signs of being another early round bust? Does`nt he need a training camp and a season or 2 before judgement is passed.
Not real up to date on all the facts-Thomas Jones was traded late last week wasn`t he.

:rolleyes:
 

Duckjake

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Graves and George, a former general manager who was run off in the mid-1900s

I knew that Boone was old but I didn't know he had been around for almost 100 years.


, they're essentially making the scouting department take the fall for such picks as defensive tackle Wendell Bryant, the 2002 first-round pick who is showing alarming signs of being their latest high-round bust

And where is this stuff about Bryant coming from? Doesn't sound good at all. Not the only time I've seen disparaging remarks about him. Is it his attitude or ability. Last thing we need is another disgruntled starter.
 

Cheesebeef

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Is George Boone really back in the mix? Come on guys, defend this move and proclaim the genius of Graves - I dare ya!
 

Dback Jon

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Originally posted by cheesebeef
Is George Boone really back in the mix? Come on guys, defend this move and proclaim the genius of Graves - I dare ya!

I doubt Graves had anything to do with this.......
 

Cheesebeef

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Originally posted by Dback Jon
I doubt Graves had anything to do with this.......

"Hoping to avoid repeat of several embarrassing and costly mistakes in recent drafts, Cardinals Vice President of Operations Rod Graves reorganized the college scouting department, demoting the national director to area scout and restoring power to a controversial figure from the team's past. "

Right - I forgot how CBS sportsline is out to get us.
 

Dback Jon

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Graves may have "done" the reorg, but having Boone so high up could only come from one person, Bill Bidwill.
 

JeffGollin

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When an organization operates as secretly the Cardinals do, it is difficult to assess who should take responsibility for the long-standing malfeasance that predates both Graves and Boone.
Umm...excuse me, but the dude who "predates both Graves and Boone was, in fact...Boone.

To allow Boone to return to power is tantamount to having Juan Peron return to lead Argentina.

I agree - the only way he comes back is through the auspices of one William Bidwill Sr. or a certain Director of Player Personnel seeking to curry favor with Mr. Bill.

Our only hope is that Rod is kicking this guy upstairs with a nice cushy title and no responsibility.

Otherwise, look for the life rafts boys & girls.
 

AZCB34

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OK, I have only followed the Cards since moving to AZ 11 years ago...so who is Boone and what is his deal? Judging from the Sportsline article he is a former, ineffective GM for the team. Was he really that bad?
 

Dback Jon

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Originally posted by AZCB34
OK, I have only followed the Cards since moving to AZ 11 years ago...so who is Boone and what is his deal? Judging from the Sportsline article he is a former, ineffective GM for the team. Was he really that bad?

Do the names Kelly Stouffer or John Lee mean anything to you?

And they were some of Boone's better picks........
 

AZCB34

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Originally posted by Dback Jon
Do the names Kelly Stouffer or John Lee mean anything to you?

And they were some of Boone's better picks........

Ahh. I didn't realize he was with the organization so recently. I was under the impression it was the 50s or something.
 

Dback Jon

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That's when he started with the Cards - the 50's. And never changed his evaluation method since.
 

football karma

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dont forget Clyde Duncan and Anthony Bell
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by Dback Jon
Do the names Kelly Stouffer or John Lee mean anything to you?

And they were some of Boone's better picks........

Boone also took Clyde Duncan and Anthony Bell.

In fairness to Boone he was often under orders to essentially pick guys who would sign cheaply, it took a few of these guys holding out before Bidwill GOT the way slotting worked. You draft a 3rd round talent in the first round, you still have to pay him first round money or he won't sign.

Boone was horrible, if he actually has any power again be concerned. Several of those boone picks were guys he'd never even worked out, Duncan said the Cards first contacted him on draft day, his agent was brand new, Clyde was his first player, so when the Cards called him about drafting him they had no idea they meant in round 1.
 

AZCB34

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Originally posted by Russ Smith
Boone also took Clyde Duncan and Anthony Bell.

In fairness to Boone he was often under orders to essentially pick guys who would sign cheaply, it took a few of these guys holding out before Bidwill GOT the way slotting worked. You draft a 3rd round talent in the first round, you still have to pay him first round money or he won't sign.

Boone was horrible, if he actually has any power again be concerned. Several of those boone picks were guys he'd never even worked out, Duncan said the Cards first contacted him on draft day, his agent was brand new, Clyde was his first player, so when the Cards called him about drafting him they had no idea they meant in round 1.

Maybe I am reading too much into this but if he is head of scouting, isn't that a pretty important, and some might even say powerful job? I mean, this guy is essentially in charge of the evaluators of future talent. I think that is a problem. Bidwill doesn't come across as a guy who will bring someone in and just give them a figurative title and a check. He seems like a guy who demands everyone to work for their money.

Also, and maybe I am waaaay too naive on scouting departments, but it sure seems like the Cards scouting department is small when they were naming everyone in the article. How big are most teams scouting departments?
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by AZCB34
Maybe I am reading too much into this but if he is head of scouting, isn't that a pretty important, and some might even say powerful job? I mean, this guy is essentially in charge of the evaluators of future talent. I think that is a problem. Bidwill doesn't come across as a guy who will bring someone in and just give them a figurative title and a check. He seems like a guy who demands everyone to work for their money.

Also, and maybe I am waaaay too naive on scouting departments, but it sure seems like the Cards scouting department is small when they were naming everyone in the article. How big are most teams scouting departments?

If he has power yes it's disconcerting. Remember we hired Bud Wilkinson when he'd been out of coaching for years. So there IS precedent for us to do crazy things.

When it first came up I just assumed Boone had no real power but maybe that's a bad assumption based on this article?
 

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I'm not sure what everyone is worried about with Boone, he wasn't deeply involved in this year's draft. The guys who picked Bryant and Jones were. Oh, now I see.
 

Cheesebeef

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Okay - so the kool-aid drinkers either ignore this horrendous bit of news or say THIS WAS NOT GRAVE'S MOVE! Even though it was indicated that it was in the article. Come on guys - let's talk about the good and bad - ingoring the problems won't make them go away - I AM PROOF OF THAT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!:D
 

Buckybird

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Boone was also involved in drafting Roy Green, O.J Anderson, Stump, Luis Sharpe, E. J Junior, Freddie Joe Nunn, Curtis Greer,
David Galloway, Doug Marsh, Tootie Robbins and the last GOOD QB the franchise has had, Neil Lomax. There were some draft reaches and failures but in the 70's and mid 80's he was involved
in bringing in some of the better players this franchise has had.
Give it time. Who knows, maybe next year we can draft Eli Manning?
 

Cbus cardsfan

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I think we are on the low end of the number of scouts.At least we had more than the Bengals.Until Lewis was hired,the Bengals coaches were also responsible for scouting and there was one head guy.Jim Lippincott,i believe was his name.Now that Lewis has been hired they have hired a scouting staff,just not a very big one.
 

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George Boone has been back for nearly 3 years now, quietly working as a scout, so I would hardly blame Rod Graves for bringing him back.

Hopefully, with him at the top of the scouting food chain, most of the "bad-apples" will have been weeded out before he ever gets a chance to look at them..... That is the only thought that is letting me sleep at night.

As for the Bengals scouting dept.....I think it consists of a subscription to Lindy's.
 

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