Further Incompetence and Ineptitude

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
If it wasn't prefectly clear before this draft that the Cardinals---under the highly questionable leadership of Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves and Steve Keim---don't understand its personnel---and its greatest areas of need---

If it wasn't perfectly clear before this draft that the Cardinals are inept in developing their young talent---

If it wasn't perfectly clear before this draft that the Cardinals under the current management simply do not understand how to take command of the draft---or understand how the draft works---or have a grasp on where the draft is loaded---

Last night, the Cardinals removed all doubt.

They are what we thought they were---incompetent and inept.

To put this notion into the clearest possible perspective---consider the following:

1. In the last three drafts the Cardinals have used a #1, a #4 and a #6 on CBs---two years ago they also signed a UFA CB (McFadden) to be their starting RCB. Here it is three years later---two trades later (dealing McFadden and Jorrick Calvin away)---and the Cardinals use another #1 on a CB.

Now I think we all get the BPA reasoning---and there is no question the Cardinals drafted a player who is possibly the best athlete in the draft.

Fine.

We are all cool with that.

However---as I and many of you predicted during our draft prep---if the Cardinals decided to take the BPA and the BPA is not an OLB---this will make it imperative that the Cardinals draft an OLB at #38.

Let's be clear about the Cardinals' oppotunities top draft one of the best OLBers in this draft---a draft that was chock-full of top shelf candidates (which speaks to whether the Cardinals understand where the draft is loaded)---

Save having no chance at drafting Von Miller...the Cardinals have had the opportunity to draft every other OLB in this draft---

Aldon Smith
Robert Quinn
Ryan Kerrigan
Cameron Jordan
Bruce Carter
Brooks Reed
Dontay Moch
Justin Houston
Akeem Ayers
Jabbal Sheard

And they have now squandered that opportunity---

They have not only squandered that opportunity---they have shunned that opportunity...

In favor of drafting a RB and a TE.

Now let's get this straight---RB Ryan Williams is a first round talent---some pundits had him going to the Dolphins at #15. And Williams is excellent value in the second round---and perhaps the aspect of his game that makes him such a good fit in the dink and dunk is, he can catch the football and create chunk yards with it.

However---and this is going to sound redundant---which it is---Whisenhunt shunned the drafting of a sorely needed pass rusher two years ago when he drafted Beanie Wells with his #1---while he already had a good young RB he spent a #5 on in Tim Hightower...and moreover...Whiz spent a #7 on drafting a speed RB who can impact the passing game.

I nearly laughed out loud when Mike Mayock said of the surprising Williams pick that "this just shows that Coach Whisenhunt want to bring the Steeler style of smashmouth football to the running game."

Let's get this straight---Ken Whisenhunt drafted Ryan Williams for two reasons: (1) Whisenhunt has not been able to coach up Hightower and Wells with regard to ball security which is why he (incorrectly as it turns out) billed Williams as a RB who never fumbles; (2) he wants a pass receiving RB for his dink and dunk.

As long as Ken Whisenhunt is the HC---there will be no smashmouth running game in Arizona. Let's get this straight, for once and for all.

Further proof?

If you want a smashmouth running game you do not appoint Mike Miller, the passing game coordinator, as the new OC.

And---if anyone needed more proof---you don't reach for a pass receiving TE with the #69 pick in the draft who cannot block!

What Ken Whisenunt was saying to his football when he picked Ryan Williams is that adding my pass receiving RB was more imprtant that trying to replace 3 linebackers in the mid-30s---none of whom at this point can provide the pressure on the QB the Cardinals so desperately need.

This pick was extraordinarily selfish on Whisenhunt's part---and the TE pick was egregiously selfish.

Whisenhunt is now on his third DC in five years---he's been running through DC the way he's running through RBs.

He now has what looks to be a great choice in Ray Horton---yet this is Ray Horton's welcome to Arizona?

In a draft that clearly was meant to bolster the talent on defense, Whisenhunt has taken the draft into his own hands in order to feather his own nest on offense...when he already has far more young talent than Horton does on defense.

And there are also tremendous ironies here.

While every DC in the league would love to get his hands on PP7---what this most likey means is that the Cardinals will now not pay the money to sign Horton's perfect fit CB: Ike Taylor.

The OLB free agent market is thin---the Cardinals vow to be aggressive---but the Cardinals version of aggressive is waiting a week for players who are not snatched up merely in order to set up a visit---and then have the UFA leave town without an offer---and we know very well by now why the Cardinals have been unable or unwilling to sign high impact free agents.

Before the draft I watched tapes of TE Rob Housler. This kid is fast and he has excellent hands. I like him a lot---and he's a real fit in the dink and dunk---but---there is no justification for taking him that early (at #69---are you kidding me? Who are the Cardinals kidding?) when there were very good, starting caliber defensive players on the board.

Housler is a luxury.

Linebackers are a necessity.

Defensive line dpeth is a necessity.

Making the football team TOUGHER is a necessity.

Stopping the embarrassing blowout losses---even at home to NFC West rivals---IS A NECESSITY.

Which part of this does Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves, Steve Keim and Michael Bidwill not understand?

What the selections of Williams and Houser do---more than anything else---is continue to damage Ken Whisenhunt's credibility with his own players. His own players haven't been playing hard for him---and, hey, if you are Darnell Dockett or Adrian Wilson or Kerry Rhodes...what do you imagine they are thinking after last night?

I will assure you of this---they are more feeling even more incredulous---even more irate---and even less trusting of the so-called brain trust than we are.
 
Last edited:

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
I doubt professional football players are as big a bunch of crybabies as the fans on this board to think they all know best who is the right draftpick and who isn't.

Save your tears for when the season starts and the Cards still have added no linebackers. Who tells you anyway that the Cards or any other team would rate any of the prospects you listed higher than Schofield who the Cards invested a 3rd round pick in despite knowing he would miss a year?
 
Last edited:

CtCardinals78

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Posts
7,256
Reaction score
2
Well put Mitch. If the Cards have another terrible year I hope this whole In Whis We Trust attitude goes away. I feel bad for the next HC, they are going to have one hell of a mess to clean up.
 

tnmike

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Posts
1,397
Reaction score
1,535
Location
Nashville, TN
Internet yahoos always know more than anybody else....that's why they are yahoos. Funny how none of them seem to make a living at what they claim to be experts at, isn't it ?
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
7,854
Reaction score
7,585
Location
Avondale, AZ
Amen...

great summation Mitch.

Last year proved one thing to me. The playoff successes were more due to the brilliance and grit of one Kurt Warner than the "genius" of Whisenhunt.

You certainly pegged it before I was willing to admit it, but he is proving to be inept in talent evaluation and development. He is so stubborn and butt headed that he is proverbially "cutting off his nose to spite his face".

I have hopes Ray Horton can perform some magic with the defense, but I am not sure if he will be able to counteract the general malaise and anger his troops will continue to have when the offense is sucking again. If they have to endure another horrendous season with turnovers and questionable play calling then they will, as they have shown, lay down on Whis. Not saying that that is right on their part, but I can certainly understand it to some extent.

The Bidwills, Graves, Keim, Whisenhunt comb is, as you astutely point out, incompetent and inept. That is a recipe for the LOSER tag they have so carefully cultivated for the last 50 years or so.

Again, great post Mr. Mitch.
 

CtCardinals78

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Posts
7,256
Reaction score
2
I doubt professional football players are as big a bunch of crybabies as the fans on this board to think they all know best who is the right draftpick and who isn't.

Save your tears for when the season starts and the Cards still have added no linebackers. Who tells you anyway that the Cards or any other team would rate any of the prospects you listed higher than Schofield who the Cards invested a 3rd round pick in despite knowing he would miss a year?

Even Dockett was questioning the TE pick last night as someone posted his twitter tweet last night pointed out.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
I doubt professional football players are as big a bunch of crybabies as the fans on this board to think they all know best who is the right draftpick and who isn't.

Save your tears for when the season starts and the Cards still have added no linebackers. Who tells you anyway that the Cards or any other team would rate any of the prospects you listed higher than Schofield who the Cards invested a 3rd round pick in despite knowing he would miss a year?

Meanwhile you put up numerous posts whining about the so called crying.
 

Zeno

Ancient
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
15,602
Reaction score
5,465
Location
Fort Myers
Internet yahoos always know more than anybody else....that's why they are yahoos. Funny how none of them seem to make a living at what they claim to be experts at, isn't it ?

Don't like how internet message boards work? Then leave.

Everyone is entitled to opinions, I rarely agree with Mitch but he does care about this team...pretty much everyone here does.

Forgive us if we want our team to be a winner and look at our roster as it stands now and are disappointed that it appears the team isn't making the effort to do that.
 

Dougmo

Veteran
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Posts
156
Reaction score
62
I'm with you Mitch.
This sucks.
I did believe in Whiz and Co. but more and more it seems like the real WIZard behind the curtain was Kurt Warner.
I'd love to be wrong and winning again, would love to eat crow, I just don't think that's gonna happen.
I've lost my faith. (sounds dramatic, it's just foosball, but I'm feeling kinda dramatic).
 

Buckybird

Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
25,296
Reaction score
6,310
Location
Dallas, TX
Great post Mitch.

This team continues to ignore it's biggest needs, OT & edge rusher :bang:

Wiz I hope you really enjoy playing golf because I think Rds 2 & 3 yesterday gets you fired in 2012...hope you don't hack your way around your 18 as bad as you hacked the Cards draft yesteday!!!

PS- I hope the human snail is your caddy :D
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,513
Reaction score
7,784
How long before Coach Whiz becomes Coach Whuz? I actually think he's very good coach, we just need a real GM to get him the players instead of some guy who makes up winner grades.
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,507
Reaction score
5,785
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Mitch, you make good points, but I think that you should point out that this Draft is DIFFERENT from past Drafts. In prior Drafts, FA is over, and the Draft is your LAST CHANCE to fill needs. This year, it's just the opposite. FA, and we won't know who is a FA until there is a CBA, will be the last chance. And after going offense with the last two picks, I would guess that the team targets Sam Acho, Jeremy Beal, Chris Carter or some small school phenom, who most fans have never heard of, in the fourth round. Although an OG, like Clint Boling is a possibility.
I'll close by saying that we'll have to wait for FA, before we know how our offseason grades out. JMO.
 

Southpaw

Provocateur aka Wallyburger
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Posts
39,818
Reaction score
3,410
Location
The urban swamp
And---if anyone needed more proof---you don't reach for a pass receiving TE with the #69 pick in the draft who cannot block!



Before the draft I watched tapes of TE Rob Houser. This kid is fast and he has excellent hands. I like him a lot---and he's a real fit in the dink and dunk---but---there is no justification for taking him that early (at #69---are you kidding me? Who are the Cardinals kidding?) when there were very good, starting caliber defensive players on the board.

Houser is a luxury.


What the selections of Williams and Houser do--

Gotta get his name right.

H-O-U-S-L-E-R.
 

Buckybird

Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
25,296
Reaction score
6,310
Location
Dallas, TX
I'll close by saying that we'll have to wait for FA, before we know how our offseason grades out. JMO.

Yeah, FA will save us...have you seen some of the guys this team has signed in FA over the years? Our track record has been...well...terrible!!!

The good teams draft talent, not spend big $$$ to win.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Last year half of this board at least hated Daryl Washington. How did that turn out?
Before almost the entire board loved Beanie Wells? How did that turn out?

Countless examples. To think that the opinion of this board is any more credible than any other source except those who have seen the players first hand, worked them out and talked to them is hilarious.

Best example is Cam Newton in Grudens QB camp. 90% of this board decided he was horrible in that interview. Yet Gruden said when Newton was picked that he spent 2 days with him and Newton that Newton was great.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,071
Reaction score
3,343
I've heard one recurring message from the players (that truly count) and it's "In Whiz" we trust. So while "even" DD (good catch slin) tweets about a TE I'll bet anyone that the lockerroom isn't set ablaze by enraged players.

How quickly some forget what this team use to be and look for any reason to give credit to someone/anyone else except Whiz.

When you call Whiz selfish because of players drafted it shows how personal one is taking this. We have a couple of posters on suicide watch and the national gaurd has been called in to stop the riots and lynch mob.

I'm not thrilled with this draft because for several months I've spent time reading and doing some research etc on who the Cards should pick. I haven't spent the time that Mitch and K9 have so maybe I'm less upset when players are picked that weren't on my must have list.

It's amazing what a good nights sleep can do for ones attitude, just saying.
 

CtCardinals78

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Posts
7,256
Reaction score
2
Last year half of this board at least hated Daryl Washington. How did that turn out?
Before almost the entire board loved Beanie Wells? How did that turn out?

Countless examples. To think that the opinion of this board is any more credible than any other source except those who have seen the players first hand, worked them out and talked to them is hilarious.

Best example is Cam Newton in Grudens QB camp. 90% of this board decided he was horrible in that interview. Yet Gruden said when Newton was picked that he spent 2 days with him and Newton that Newton was great.

A lot of people were positive regarding Washington on here last year. Beanie could be a very good back if Wiz and his staff could develop talent properly. You think it's coincidence Whiz ends up drafting players in the same position year after year?
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,071
Reaction score
3,343
A lot of people were positive regarding Washington on here last year. Beanie could be a very good back if Wiz and his staff could develop talent properly. You think it's coincidence Whiz ends up drafting players in the same position year after year?

Drafting RB's in 3 outa 4 years is not a crazy concept. Pats took 2 this year themselves. THT was a 5th rd pick and has played above his draft status. Beanie can't get out of the trainers room so he doesn't spend enough time in the classroom.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
A lot of people were positive regarding Washington on here last year. Beanie could be a very good back if Wiz and his staff could develop talent properly. You think it's coincidence Whiz ends up drafting players in the same position year after year?

Great post, CT.

One of the best ways to stunt and deter the growth of a football team is to draft at the same positions over and over again---due to failures of bringing the previous talent along.

This is happening in spades with the Cardinals...
 

Buckybird

Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
25,296
Reaction score
6,310
Location
Dallas, TX
Great post, CT.

One of the best ways to stunt and deter the growth of a football team is to draft at the same positions over and over again---due to failures of bringing the previous talent along.

This is happening in spades with the Cardinals...

And it's been happening in nearly all my 40 years as a Big Red fan.

I will still never forget Horton's comments about BMF last year "We had to coach the Arizona out of him" :bang: Thats a big statement thats true IMO
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
And it's been happening in nearly all my 40 years as a Big Red fan.

I will still never forget Horton's comments about BMF last year "We had to coach the Arizona out of him" :bang: Thats a big statement thats true IMO

Great point, Bucky.

That quote from Horton is a very interesting one because we have to hope he can "coach the Arizona out" of the entire defense...and he sure isn't being given much help thus far by Whisenhunt or Steve Keim.
 

Indiana Hoosier

Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Posts
460
Reaction score
0
Location
Anderson, IN
:mulli: Mitch, I agree! Except for our 1st Rd, I can't believe the 2nd and 3rd. I have given up watching 4 thru 7. Wow! I hope I'm wrong, but I have doubts we will be 5-11. Graves has got to go!:(
 

Buckybird

Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
25,296
Reaction score
6,310
Location
Dallas, TX
Last year half of this board at least hated Daryl Washington. How did that turn out?
Before almost the entire board loved Beanie Wells? How did that turn out?

To think DWash is the 2nd coming of Dansby at this point is far fetched. Though skilled, didn't produce at the level many thought he would.

BTW I still think Wells is a helluva player & at some point of his career will show that, given the opportunity.
 

ryanshaug

Registered
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Posts
253
Reaction score
0
I have to agree with the general overall sentiment here...

I just don't get the 2nd and 3rd round picks when there are greater needs...

It's disappointing and a little depressing.

That being said, given the track records for 3rd round picks in recent years, I'm not shocked that the Cardinals screwed the pooch again.

Oh well. There's always tailgating.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,109
Posts
5,433,312
Members
6,329
Latest member
cardinals2025
Top