FYI Mayfield

[Krangodnzr]

Baker’s had 3 coaches in 4 years and they were awful before he got there. He’s not a star QB but who are they signing/drafting that’s better?

Right....you just said it. He's not a star QB. I'm not making the argument that they could do better, just that he isn't a franchise guy.

Baker is in that Steve Beurlein/Chris Chandler class. Good player, but one that is still highly dependent on his supporting cast.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I wish Baker the best.

Worst case scenario, he frees himself up for some more commercial shoots.

Dude is basically the NFL equivalent of Rickie Fowler... Lower end of the spectrum talent-wise, But making HOF endorsement $$

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rodgers, Wilson, Watson ... else I don't know

And how exactly do they sign/draft one of those guys that are under contract to another team?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right....you just said it. He's not a star QB. I'm not making the argument that they could do better, just that he isn't a franchise guy.

Baker is in that Steve Beurlein/Chris Chandler class. Good player, but one that is still highly dependent on his supporting cast.

I think he has potential to be better than those guys.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think he has potential to be better than those guys.

I'm saying the modern equivalent. Those guys were actually pretty good for their era once they were with teams that had some weapons and a decent OL.

Mayfield is the third best QB from his class behind Allen and Jackson. Murray is better. Hell there is a strong list of QBs that are better than him. I'd say he's between 15 and 20.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And how exactly do they sign/draft one of those guys that are under contract to another team?

The Browns are going to be stuck in that QB middle of the road land. With Baker, they will need to have a top notch supporting cast to win big.

It's better than being in the Texans situation (no QB), the Dolphins situation (young low end QB), or the Lions situation (lame duck QB), but they should draft a better QB if one is available.

I think back to those many years that the Cardinals passed on QBs because they had an adequate starter. Imagine the alternate universe where they drafted Aaron Rodgers because he was better than Josh McCown. I think you have to do that in the NFL, and more so now than ever.

 

[wit3card]

And how exactly do they sign/draft one of those guys that are under contract to another team?

all are on the trade block the comming year... all can be aquired with some #1 in the Wilson or Watson case you might argue even with Baker as package

 

[Russ Smith]

Mayfield out tonight, he wants to play team and personal doctor said no.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm saying the modern equivalent. Those guys were actually pretty good for their era once they were with teams that had some weapons and a decent OL.

Mayfield is the third best QB from his class behind Allen and Jackson. Murray is better. Hell there is a strong list of QBs that are better than him. I'd say he's between 15 and 20.

Eh buerlein was a journeyman. Chandler was a tad better but only by a skosh. I think baker can be a career starter for a team like the browns who have a game plan meant to limit dependence upon him being a team carrier.

Again we are likely a couple feet apart on our views.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Browns are going to be stuck in that QB middle of the road land. With Baker, they will need to have a top notch supporting cast to win big.

It's better than being in the Texans situation (no QB), the Dolphins situation (young low end QB), or the Lions situation (lame duck QB), but they should draft a better QB if one is available.

I think back to those many years that the Cardinals passed on QBs because they had an adequate starter. Imagine the alternate universe where they drafted Aaron Rodgers because he was better than Josh McCown. I think you have to do that in the NFL, and more so now than ever.

I don’t disagree. But then you’re telling a playoff team to draft a position in the first round that isn’t presently a “problem” instead of an impact player who will push their playoff success more in the short term. And we aren’t talking a GB scenario where the QB is old. Tough to get a team to do that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

all are on the trade block the comming year... all can be aquired with some #1 in the Wilson or Watson case you might argue even with Baker as package

The comment to which you replied was “draft/sign” - you’re moving the goalposts.

 

[wit3card]

The comment to which you replied was “draft/sign” - you’re moving the goalposts.

Sorry Ouchie that I wasn't clear from the get go.

 

[unseenaz]

I am grateful for our QB situation, but if we needed a QB and the browns got rid of baker, I would welcome him with open arms. their fan base is nuts if they think he's the problem

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don’t disagree. But then you’re telling a playoff team to draft a position in the first round that isn’t presently a “problem” instead of an impact player who will push their playoff success more in the short term. And we aren’t talking a GB scenario where the QB is old. Tough to get a team to do that.

Here is the thing though: if there is a good enough guy hanging around later in the first round (which is where I think the expect to draft), the Browns wouldn't have to have the guy start immediately. While I think it's best for a QB to learn on the job, I think it's better to give the guy at least a half a season before they have to start.

If you look over the past twenty years, I think it's easier to win a Super Bowl with an elite QB and a lesser cast than it is to win a Super Bowl with an amazing team and a decent QB. The game is just so dependent now on QB play that they can make a big difference.

The Cardinals improvement so far is two fold: The supporting cast is better, but Murray has reached the level that a lot of us thought he could get to. He is almost to the point that he is a QB that could win with only two good receivers and a bunch of ok players. Mayfield is the type of QB that for him to match Murray's performance, he needs a top five OL, a top five RB corps, and good receivers. That's hard to maintain for the long haul.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here is the thing though: if there is a good enough guy hanging around later in the first round (which is where I think the expect to draft), the Browns wouldn't have to have the guy start immediately. While I think it's best for a QB to learn on the job, I think it's better to give the guy at least a half a season before they have to start.

If you look over the past twenty years, I think it's easier to win a Super Bowl with an elite QB and a lesser cast than it is to win a Super Bowl with an amazing team and a decent QB. The game is just so dependent now on QB play that they can make a big difference.

The Cardinals improvement so far is two fold: The supporting cast is better, but Murray has reached the level that a lot of us thought he could get to. He is almost to the point that he is a QB that could win with only two good receivers and a bunch of ok players. Mayfield is the type of QB that for him to match Murray's performance, he needs a top five OL, a top five RB corps, and good receivers. That's hard to maintain for the long haul.

I didn’t mention starting the late round 1 QB immediately. What I said is that drafting one eliminates taking a late round 1 guy who likely would make an immediate impact at another position (like oline or wr or dline) on a team that is presently competing in the playoffs and while it doesn’t have the stud at QB, neither does it have a “problem” at QB

That said, I agree with you that the best way to win a super bowl is with a stud QB. But there’s no guarantee that a late first round QB is going to be a stud. In fact I’d argue that’s less than likely to occur.

 

[wit3card]

I didn’t mention starting the late round 1 QB immediately. What I said is that drafting one eliminates taking a late round 1 guy who likely would make an immediate impact at another position (like oline or wr or dline) on a team that is presently competing in the playoffs and while it doesn’t have the stud at QB, neither does it have a “problem” at QB

That said, I agree with you that the best way to win a super bowl is with a stud QB. But there’s no guarantee that a late first round QB is going to be a stud. In fact I’d argue that’s less than likely to occur.

Statistic is totally on your side, expect for some outliners, you need a top QB from the #1 round and nowadays QB are overdrafted, some of the later 1st round QB in the last years wouldn't have gone in the first round in the last decade. Gosh, Kyler would never have been a #1 overall if not for Russel Wilson that baved the way for Kyler.

But overall, if you redraft and any stud at QB will be first if there is not a Legend on an other position.

 

[oaken1]

Ridiculous.

So a guy has to be a hall of famer to be a franchise QB?

Baker Mayfield is absolutely a franchise quarterback

That absolute joke of a franchise will be relevant for the next decade because they have him.

He has already done more for Cleveland than Stafford ever did for Detroit and most were proclaiming the rams super bowl bound because they got stafford

Put mayfield with a well run organization like maybe Pittsburgh..... and the kid is likely already an all pro

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ridiculous.

So a guy has to be a hall of famer to be a franchise QB?

Baker Mayfield is absolutely a franchise quarterback

That absolute joke of a franchise will be relevant for the next decade because they have him.

He has already done more for Cleveland than Stafford ever did for Detroit and most were proclaiming the rams super bowl bound because they got stafford

Put mayfield with a well run organization like maybe Pittsburgh..... and the kid is likely already an all pro

Its not ridiculous.

Mayfield only plays good football when the Browns are a well oiled machine. Any adversity and he's mister average.

The concept of the franchise QB has been stretched so much from what it used to be. There are only probably 10 or so franchise QBs at a time and Mayfield isn't one of them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Its not ridiculous.

Mayfield only plays good football when the Browns are a well oiled machine. Any adversity and he's mister average.

The concept of the franchise QB has been stretched so much from what it used to be. There are only probably 10 or so franchise QBs at a time and Mayfield isn't one of them.

I think we are defining “franchise qb” differently. Would you have considered Bernie kosar a franchise QB?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think we are defining “franchise qb” differently. Would you have considered Bernie kosar a franchise QB?

Different era.

A long term starter isn't necessarily a franchise QB.

Franchise player - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I dont consider Baker Mayfield to be their best player.

 

[Bkbobo]

I guess the question is. What defines a franchise quarterback? Is it a quarterback that plays for the same team for several years and hopefully in the same offensive system? Is it a quarterback that can make average player look better? Is it a quarterback you believe in order to be successful, you have to have them in a particular system and particular players around them?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I guess the question is. What defines a franchise quarterback? Is it a quarterback that plays for the same team for several years and hopefully in the same offensive system? Is it a quarterback that can make average player look better? Is it a quarterback you believe in order to be successful, you have to have them in a particular system and particular players around them?

When people talk about the Browns offense, the beginning of the conversation is the running game, then the offensive line, then how efficiently Mayfield manages the offense.

He hasn't even been a 4000-yard passer yet and to be fair, neither has Murray. Barring injury, Murray should be able to easily surpass 4000 this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Different era.

A long term starter isn't necessarily a franchise QB.

Franchise player - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I dont consider Baker Mayfield to be their best player.

Meh same concept. Ken O’Brien was another example. Same with Chad Pennington. Same with flacco. Phil Simms. McNabb. Matt Ryan for most of his career. Tony romo. There are a handful of elite QBs at any given time. But a franchise QB means a QB you can win with if you get stars at other positions.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When people talk about the Browns offense, the beginning of the conversation is the running game, then the offensive line, then how efficiently Mayfield manages the offense.

He hasn't even been a 4000-yard passer yet and to be fair, neither has Murray. Barring injury, Murray should be able to easily surpass 4000 this year.

If Plummer panned out we would’ve considered him our franchise QB and he wasn’t extraordinarily talented and never would’ve been the best player on a good playoff team.