Gabbert as QBOTF

[Cbus cardsfan]

I agree about Gabbert being a #2. I think he'd be one of the top 2's in the league and there's nothing wrong with that. I think they'll bring CP back and draft a QB early. I would love Rosen but don't think there's much of a chance he'll be available. Darnold has too much Blake Bortles in his delivery for my liking. That leaves Allen, Jackson, Mayfield and Rudolph. I think they are all a crapshoot with Allen and Rudoplh likely fitting the BASK mold. This is where I think having Tom Moore around is going to be huge. The guy knows QB's.

If it were me, I'd love to see an OT(or Denzel Ward) drafted first, trade up for QB of choice(mine are Jackson, Allen, then Rudolph) in bottom of round 1 and nab C Billy Price with their next pick.

 

[football karma]

FWIW, Jurecki has stated on multiple occasions that Cousins won't be a target for the Cardinals.

maybe to add: Keim has also noted that the price to pay for FA QBs means its super hard to field a playoff caliber team.

I guess the formula he is referring to is Seattles: during Wilson's rookie deal, they extended many of the key guys and took a chunk of the cap hit then ----

I also agree with Harry: bad o lines ruin young QBs.

 

[Chopper0080]

So, the argument is that Cousins is a good not great QB. That he makes us a viable playoff team, but is not going to get us to the Super Bowl.

Ok, what is wrong with that for the next 5 years? Do any of us really believe that the 3rd or 4th best QB in this class is going to do any better? Do any of us really believe that the top teams who need a QB are not going to take one? Do any of us really think that our offensive personnel is conducive to developing a young QB? Do any of us really think that Arians will stick around for the next three years with our young, learning QB? Do any of us really trust Keim to sign a viable head coach from outside of the current staff once Arians calls it quits.

I know I don't.

Here is what happens if we don't sign Cousins.

1-We re-sign Gabbert, Palmer retires, and we need to draft a QB.
2-QBs are draft by the Browns and Giants with the first two picks. So, two of the four viable top 10 QBs are gone (Rosen, Jackson, Mayfield and Darnold).
3-We either give up a haul to move up to #3 with Indy, or someone else does. SF is not trading with us. So, we get the third choice at #3 and give up a min of next year's first rounder.
4-The Broncos will take a QB at #5 and the Jets will take one at #9. My guess is that both of those teams trade up to 3 and 4 to ensure they get one unless one of them signs Cousins.
5-So, at best, unless we trade up to #3, the Cardinals will be drafting whichever of these QBs is left over or we draft Josh Allen because he fits our system.
6-Gabbert starts the season and either gets injured because of our terrible offensive line ro is benched because this is Arians last year. Either way, we have a QB change halfway into the season.
7-Arians retires, and Keim searches for a new head coach. All of this understanding that the new head coach may not want the QB we drafted.
8-Our first round QB now has to learn his second new offense in two years, and struggles to adjust because of the lack of support system we have in place.
9-Our coach wants a QB that he wants and so we draft another, making the QB we drafted a bust.
10-Keim gets fired. Coach gets fired. QB is a bust. Rinse. Repeat.

Seahawks had a great defense to support Wilson. Eagles had one of the best offensive lines in football, and the head coach was invested in Wentz. Rams got lucky with a very young HC, and signed one of the best DCs in the NFL to improve the defense. Dak had one of the best offensive lines in football. We are not any of these situations. We have a one year HC and one year of his unique offensive system. We have a terrible DC. We have a terrible OL.

 

[Chopper0080]

Here is the case study.

A rookie QB will be the 3rd or 4th QB drafted his draft class. This rookie QB will have two head coaches in his first two years. He will have to learn two offensive systems in his first two years. He will lose his Hall of Fame WR in year 2. He will have to do this behind one of the NFL's 10 worst offensive lines.

What are this QB's chances of being successful?

 

[Solar7]

I don't get why anyone wants to bring back Palmer. He did not look like he had it in him at all during the games he played, and he's extremely expensive for his lack of production.

@Chopper0080 - Keim brought in Arians, I don't know why we wouldn't trust him to bring in another viable coach. Is the argument suddenly that you just think he's an all around bad GM?

That aside, I agree with most of your points. If Arians is back, drafting a rookie makes little to no sense. Teach him a complicated offensive system, only to rip it away in year two? No way. And yeah, this will be the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th QB drafted unless we want to mortgage the future (assuming we even can mortgage the future). With a possibility that the top three teams could take 3 QBs, depending on Andrew Luck's health, and the probability of the Broncos being in the fight for a QB, we're really stuck with the cupboard bare unless teams at the top start to over-evaluate these guys and pass on them. Hell, this is all assuming Darnold even comes out.

We have played our way out of contention for a top QB this season. If we are going to roll with Arians for one more year, we really need to invest in Cousins or bust.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The Cardinals have so many needs do they Draft an OL early?

That has not really helped.

The transition from the college game to the pro game for the offensive line is starting to become the steepest learning curve in the league.

I would be extremely wary of drafting a 1st round, or even 2nd round offensive lineman. This is a HUGE change in my drafting philosophy, but IMHO, if you are going to have to invest time into any and all offensive linemen that come in the league, then look for free agents that have about 5 to 6 years experience in the league. Or just draft 4th round or lower, and see what develops.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Again, in BA's system, THIS YEAR (not past history, and in the NFL, last year is ANCIENT history), Palmer is 3-4 and Gabbert is 2-2, so, even with a line EVEN WORSE than the line Palmer had, Gabbert has a chance at a winning record. NOTHING YOU SAY ALTERS THAT SIMPLE FACT. I know it burns you up, I assume you'd rather lose, but Gabbert is 1 win away from outdoing Palmer this year. That is a fact. Get used to it.

Yes it is a fact.

and as Granny Hawkins says, "I say that big talk's worth doodly-squat."

It may be fact, the point doesn't say much.

Trent Dilfer won more Superbowls than Dan Marino, that is a fact, but what does that tell you about Dilfer and Marino besides Dilfer won a Super Bowl ?

Not to mention your assumption is laughable, and adds nothing to your point......probably takes away from it to be honest.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Bring CP back, cut Stanton, have BG back up CP, and draft a QB in either the 1st or 2nd round. It’s time to draft a QB early. It’s always risky, but it’s time.

I am on board with this.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Whoever #75 is is frickin' terrible. Guy has his head on a swivel and is never looking the right direction, almost like he doesn't know his assignment.

We let Levi Brown go.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

So, the argument is that Cousins is a good not great QB. That he makes us a viable playoff team, but is not going to get us to the Super Bowl.

Ok, what is wrong with that for the next 5 years? Do any of us really believe that the 3rd or 4th best QB in this class is going to do any better? Do any of us really believe that the top teams who need a QB are not going to take one? Do any of us really think that our offensive personnel is conducive to developing a young QB? Do any of us really think that Arians will stick around for the next three years with our young, learning QB? Do any of us really trust Keim to sign a viable head coach from outside of the current staff once Arians calls it quits.

I know I don't.

Here is what happens if we don't sign Cousins.

1-We re-sign Gabbert, Palmer retires, and we need to draft a QB.
2-QBs are draft by the Browns and Giants with the first two picks. So, two of the four viable top 10 QBs are gone (Rosen, Jackson, Mayfield and Darnold).
3-We either give up a haul to move up to #3 with Indy, or someone else does. SF is not trading with us. So, we get the third choice at #3 and give up a min of next year's first rounder.
4-The Broncos will take a QB at #5 and the Jets will take one at #9. My guess is that both of those teams trade up to 3 and 4 to ensure they get one unless one of them signs Cousins.
5-So, at best, unless we trade up to #3, the Cardinals will be drafting whichever of these QBs is left over or we draft Josh Allen because he fits our system.
6-Gabbert starts the season and either gets injured because of our terrible offensive line ro is benched because this is Arians last year. Either way, we have a QB change halfway into the season.
7-Arians retires, and Keim searches for a new head coach. All of this understanding that the new head coach may not want the QB we drafted.
8-Our first round QB now has to learn his second new offense in two years, and struggles to adjust because of the lack of support system we have in place.
9-Our coach wants a QB that he wants and so we draft another, making the QB we drafted a bust.
10-Keim gets fired. Coach gets fired. QB is a bust. Rinse. Repeat.

Seahawks had a great defense to support Wilson. Eagles had one of the best offensive lines in football, and the head coach was invested in Wentz. Rams got lucky with a very young HC, and signed one of the best DCs in the NFL to improve the defense. Dak had one of the best offensive lines in football. We are not any of these situations. We have a one year HC and one year of his unique offensive system. We have a terrible DC. We have a terrible OL.

I would barf if we drafted Allen. Behind this O-Line, he would be absolutely dreadful.

 

[nashman]

I think it’s time to move on from CP especially since his price tag is high. That money could better be used to fix the glaring issue of OL. No QB is gonna have much success behind this line I think we can all agree on that! BG could be a bridge to the QB who gets drafted at a much reduced salary than that of CP or even DS who is an overpaid clipboard holder! Fix the damn line and get a few WR and let DJ fuel the offense will be better for any QB we have behind center.

 

[Chopper0080]

I would barf if we drafted Allen. Behind this O-Line, he would be absolutely dreadful.

Arians is our head coach who likes big QBs with a strong arm...Keim is the GM who gives Arians what he wants...Do you really trust the pair to NOT draft Josh Allen?

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't get why anyone wants to bring back Palmer. He did not look like he had it in him at all during the games he played, and he's extremely expensive for his lack of production.

@Chopper0080 - Keim brought in Arians, I don't know why we wouldn't trust him to bring in another viable coach. Is the argument suddenly that you just think he's an all around bad GM?

That aside, I agree with most of your points. If Arians is back, drafting a rookie makes little to no sense. Teach him a complicated offensive system, only to rip it away in year two? No way. And yeah, this will be the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th QB drafted unless we want to mortgage the future (assuming we even can mortgage the future). With a possibility that the top three teams could take 3 QBs, depending on Andrew Luck's health, and the probability of the Broncos being in the fight for a QB, we're really stuck with the cupboard bare unless teams at the top start to over-evaluate these guys and pass on them. Hell, this is all assuming Darnold even comes out.

We have played our way out of contention for a top QB this season. If we are going to roll with Arians for one more year, we really need to invest in Cousins or bust.

Keim got Arians as the last coach hired in the process. He was the LAST COACH HIRED. Right or wrong, my view is that when you are the first to make a selection and you select the best one, you have selected well. If you are the last one to make a selection and you pick the right one, you get less credit because you picked from a smaller pool. In my mind, it was the others teams that missed on Arians vs Keim selecting the right guy.

That is just my view. Keim has made some good moves and some bad moves. I just don't blindly trust him to get the coach who is going to work perfectly with a QB who the coach had no say in drafting. I am less hesitant in Keim selecting a coach with a vet QB like Cousins on the roster.

 

[kerouac9]

Arians is our head coach who likes big QBs with a strong arm...Keim is the GM who gives Arians what he wants...Do you really trust the pair to NOT draft Josh Allen?

Keim likes big QBs with a strong arm, too. CF Lindley, Logan Thomas, etc.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it’s time to move on from CP especially since his price tag is high. That money could better be used to fix the glaring issue of OL. No QB is gonna have much success behind this line I think we can all agree on that! BG could be a bridge to the QB who gets drafted at a much reduced salary than that of CP or even DS who is an overpaid clipboard holder! Fix the damn line and get a few WR and let DJ fuel the offense will be better for any QB we have behind center.

How on earth can we draft a QB in round 1, fix the offensive line and get a few WRs in one offseason? If you want a better offensive support system for a young, highly drafted QB, draft one when you sign your long term head coach in 2019.

I see no benefit is selecting a young QB only to have him learn a system in year one that he won't be running in year 2.

 

[wit3card]

Keim likes big QBs with a strong arm, too. CF Lindley, Logan Thomas, etc.

And he wanted Wilson ... but didn't get him ...

Just saying ... Keim drafts big stron armed guys because his HC wants his QB that mold and you need the right QB for the right HC and vice versa, else you waste time, potential, skills, talent, draft picks and money.

 

[kerouac9]

And he wanted Wilson ... but didn't get him ...

Just saying ... Keim drafts big stron armed guys because his HC wants his QB that mold and you need the right QB for the right HC and vice versa, else you waste time, potential, skills, talent, draft picks and money.

No, he didn't. He says he wished he'd had the balls to pull the trigger on him, whatever that means. I don't really trust a scout who says he loved a guy once he's an All-Pro.

Arians wasn't in town when the Cards drafted Lindley, Skelton, and Navarre. Guess who was?

 

[Veer]

Keim has to finally get that monkey off his back and draft a QB with our 1st round pick, trading up if necessary. How long can a GM survive without taking a QB in the first 3 rounds? That's ridiculous!

Following the conservative approach of some here, well, we first need an All Pro OL, better WRs and a new HC, with a new system. But just look at the 49ers or Rams who got their franchise QBs. Rams got Goff with so many glaring holes on their roster, one of the worst teams of the last decade coached by Jeff Fisher, and look where they are a year later! 49ers this year even worse roster, trade during the season for Garoppolo, and haven't lost since he is starting for them. There will never be the perfect time to draft a QB. You either have him or you don't. We don't have a young franchise QB of the future, so we need to try each and every year again until we hit. I'm so disappointed Keim didn't even try. Hence in the 2nd or 3rd round at least. Chiefs and Texans did the right thing to leapfrog us in this year's draft. They got their future QBs locked up. Keim got hosed!

 

[WildBB]

I think this is the argument for signing Kirk Cousins. It enables you to fix the offensive line. The issue is that we have invested money and draft picks trying to fix the offensive line since Keim got here...and our only viable option next year is Humphries who can't stay on the field.

Where I fall is such. Sign Kirk Cousins. Arians looks to be gone in a year and Cousins can play in any system. I can't say the same for the next coach with us drafting a rookie and him having one year of experience when the new coach comes in. Use the first round pick on a tackle. You can cut Veldheer, but need to keep Iupati. Round 2, draft a C. Billy Price or Mason Cole...whatever. Trade up if you need to. This gives you a 5 year window to set the building blocks for your offensive line. If Humphries can't stay healthy, you still have an OT and C to build around, and you can sign a FA OT. You have a QB. A top WR and RB. TE money makes it so you need to draft a WR unless you backload a top FA WR thinking it will offset once Fitz retires.

However, you are now stuck on defense. No high pick to take a CB, and no real FA dollars to get one either. You probably enter the season with Bynes, Reddick and Bucannon at ILB. Re-sign Kareem Martin and you have a decent OLB rotation. Defensive line still probably sucks, but you can consider a developing Pierre as an addition. You stick with your trio of Bethea, Mathieu and Baker. #2 CB still leaves a ton to be desired.

Cousins would be an option if you waive CP. Can't argue about fixing the OL first. But vets would be a better way to go. I'd still draft one high. But if Mayfield or Jackson is sitting there in the 1st, I'm not passing on them.

 

[vince56]

We let Levi Brown go.

The number is cursed. The curse of Lomas Brown!

 

[Chopper0080]

Cousins would be an option if you waive CP. Can't argue about fixing the OL first. But vets would be a better way to go. I'd still draft one high. But if Mayfield or Jackson is sitting there in the 1st, I'm not passing on them.

Please show me the veteran, FA offensive linemen that we should spend money on becauase I don't see one. Maybe a C, but the CArdinals seem to view Shipley as part of the solution, not the problem.

 

[TJ]

0 TDS in 2 games, poor decision making, poor field awareness. Time to start the conversation about letting him walk.

 

[AZfaninMN]

I said it 3 weeks ago and was laughed at. Stanton gives us a better chance to win. No tds in 10 quarters and one in the last 12.

 

[schutd]

Dont need to win. Need to see whats worth bringing back next year. RIght now, the QB cupboard is bare. Glad we know. SOme would say they knew all along, others would argue situations leading til now. Currently, theres no logical way to refute that Gabbert does not belong in the convo as QBOTF

 

[sportznutt]

I admit. I thought he was better than this.