Gambo: Looking back: D-backs won the Upton trade with Atlanta

[Phrazbit]

I'm not addressing KT's ability as a GM. I'm merely addressing Upton and this trade, period. And IMHO, this trade was strictly about getting rid of Upton. And now, 3 years later, the trade looks a heckuva lot better.
The moves KT made after this trade were largely horrific and pure desperation. But again, with sole regard to Upton and this trade, I'm more than cool with how it has shaken out...

Saying you're okay with it in the moment and saying it was a good trade are different things. We could have gotten Drury for next to nothing back in 2013. IMO our FO looking at things "in the moment" is what has damaged the franchise so much the last few years. Sure, right now, at this moment, I'd take Drury over what Upton's and on his contract. Yep, but the 3 year gap and the damage associated cannot be ignored and the revisionist history people keep trying to use in it's defense is silly.

And yet, in less than 10 years in the league, he's now played on 4 teams... I just don't see how that meshes with a great team chemistry guy.
I am not saying my claim is "more valid". It's simply my opinion. You have yours... And we come together here on a message board to express and back-up our respective positions - knowing NONE of us have any more credible evidence or access to information over someone else... So you don't have to accept my opinion, and I don't have to accept yours. We've made our respective cases. I will continue to see it my way. Carry on...

We were Steve Finley's 4th team, we were Randy Johnson's 4th team, we were Gonzo's 5th team in as many years. Were those guys all bad chemistry players? I don't think you can look at a number like that and draw much of a conclusion, especially in Upton's case where the initial move was done out of sheer incompetence and the latter move was as a result of a mammoth new contract.

I don't have a problem with difference of opinion, I just like to see reasoning that makes sense for it. If you are basing this on that you just flat out don't like Upton fine, I've been there. I could not stand Stephon Marbury when he was on the Suns and it causes me to argue with other Suns fans every time his name comes up on the other board. But the stuff I see getting applied to support the Upton trade is virtually based on largely unsupported conjecture (him being a cancer) or easily refutable results and cost comparisons. If people just dislike him... fine. I can't really debate against that, I might not agree but it is clearly a difference of opinion. While a lot of this other stuff is a disagreement on fact, which I will continue to whale on because... they're facts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We were Steve Finley's 4th team, we were Randy Johnson's 4th team, we were Gonzo's 5th team in as many years. Were those guys all bad chemistry players? I don't think you can look at a number like that and draw much of a conclusion, especially in Upton's case where the initial move was done out of sheer incompetence and the latter move was as a result of a mammoth new contract.

I don't have a problem with difference of opinion, I just like to see reasoning that makes sense for it. If you are basing this on that you just flat out don't like Upton fine, I've been there.

So are you going to now place Upton on the same level as journeymen like Finley and Gonzo? If that's how you see Upton's talents and his eventual career going, then I'm really confused as to why you're so crazed by KT getting rid of him...
Upton's talents are more comparable to RJ. RJ, prior to coming to AZ had already established himself as a potential Hall of Famer. He already had proven his ability to perform at levels commensurate with his talent. Upton has not.
I don't dislike Upton. Not sure how many times I have to say this. You seem to want to make this about hate for a player when it's not that at all.

 

[Phrazbit]

So are you going to now place Upton on the same level as journeymen like Finley and Gonzo? If that's how you see Upton's talents and his eventual career going, then I'm really confused as to why you're so crazed by KT getting rid of him...
Upton's talents are more comparable to RJ. RJ, prior to coming to AZ had already established himself as a potential Hall of Famer. He already had proven his ability to perform at levels commensurate with his talent. Upton has not.
I don't dislike Upton. Not sure how many times I have to say this. You seem to want to make this about hate for a player when it's not that at all.

Finley was no journeyman, the guy was a really good player, an all-star right before we got him. I'm saying you looking at how many teams a guy has been on and using that and that alone to say "bad clubhouse guy" is poor logic.

I get that you're saying you don't dislike Upton, but when the only defense of a move in the moment is "we just needed him gone"... it carries a heavy implication of dislike, especially when it is later justified by totally unsubstantiated implications of him being a bad clubhouse guy. When you stray far from the facts and the results to justify something it becomes an argument based on emotion. I'm not saying you hate him, that you want him to get hit by a bus, but I certainly feel disliked him on the team. And I am not condemning you for that, I've there with players. I just would prefer for that to be the stated reason rather than the silly reasons that have been argued over the years.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

It's as simple as a team deciding he's not getting you to the promise land, and we can't or won't pay him what he could get in the market. 2.5 teams have tried him since with the same result. We have Ahmed and Drury, and Atlanta has nothing.


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[DWKB]

It's as simple as a team deciding he's not getting you to the promise land, and we can't or won't pay him what he could get in the market. 2.5 teams have tried him since with the same result. We have Ahmed and Drury, and Atlanta has nothing.


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Pretty sure they had a playoff run and a now have a handful of prospects. Far from "nothing".

Why must people exaggerate and incorrectly state things to prove their point?