Gambo: There is little to no trade market for Brandon Knight

[Phrazbit]

1 year ago = "No teams are willing to offer a 1st round pick for Markieff Morris"

We also had people claiming we'd have to give something up just to get rid of Isiaih Thomas.

 

[elindholm]

In 5 years we may look back on this as the worst trade in Suns history.

Nothing will ever top the trade of Kurt Thomas and two first-round picks for nothing. One of those picks became Serge Ibaka.

 

[devilalum]

Nothing will ever top the trade of Kurt Thomas and two first-round picks for nothing. One of those picks became Serge Ibaka.

Unless the Laker pick becomes the next LBJ.

from phone

 

[Phrazbit]

The Nets trade with Boston could go down as the worst in league history. Boston is going to get the Nets pick this year in a swap, it will almost certainly be top 3, they also have the Nets pick next year, with zero protection on it and they're a virtual guarantee to be dog crap again, they also gave up the #3 pick in last year's draft in the trade.

And for an added note of hilarity, in that trade the Nets dumped the contract of Gerald Wallace, whom they extended after trading for him during a non-playoff season when he was set to be a free agent, giving up an unprotected pick that became Lillard.

Billy King is the worst GM... ever.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Nets trade with Boston could go down as the worst in league history. Boston is going to get the Nets pick this year in a swap, it will almost certainly be top 3, they also have the Nets pick next year, with zero protection on it and they're a virtual guarantee to be dog crap again, they also gave up the #3 pick in last year's draft in the trade.

And for an added note of hilarity, in that trade the Nets dumped the contract of Gerald Wallace, whom they extended after trading for him during a non-playoff season when he was set to be a free agent, giving up an unprotected pick that became Lillard.

Billy King is the worst GM... ever.

The Nets are acting much like a farm team for the Celtics. It's almost unfair since they are another NBA franchise.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although it did not happen in a single trade, trading IT for a late first round draft pick and then trading the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight might end up the worst NBA trades in Suns history.

The only mitigating factor is trading Dragic to the Heat for two first round draft picks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Although it did not happen in a single trade, trading IT for a late first round draft pick and then trading the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight might end up the worst NBA trades in Suns history.

The only mitigating factor is trading Dragic to the Heat for two first round draft picks.

IT turned out to be better than anyone imagined (although I still wonder if he is, to some extent, fools gold), and Knight turned out to be worse than anyone imagined. It was not unreasonable to think a young player like Knight, whose shooting has significantly improved, would take the next step. It was a perfect storm.

 

[Mainstreet]

IT turned out to be better than anyone imagined (although I still wonder if he is, to some extent, fools gold), and Knight turned out to be worse than anyone imagined. It was not unreasonable to think a young player like Knight, whose shooting has significantly improved, would take the next step. It was a perfect storm.

It was a perfect storm. Losing the Lakers pick as well is like a dagger in the heart.

 

[elindholm]

IT turned out to be better than anyone imagined (although I still wonder if he is, to some extent, fools gold), and Knight turned out to be worse than anyone imagined. It was not unreasonable to think a young player like Knight, whose shooting has significantly improved, would take the next step.

Maybe, but the reality is that the Suns' front office was panicked, and when you are panicked, you rarely make your best decisions. So they can be partially excused for not being able to predict the future, but there really isn't an excuse for allowing themselves to get into such a terrible situation. The deals were engineered at practically the last minute, when there was not the opportunity to assess them carefully.

 

[Errntknght]

Good post Eric... I hope it doesn't overly concern you that I'm in agreement...

 

[Phrazbit]

Maybe, but the reality is that the Suns' front office was panicked, and when you are panicked, you rarely make your best decisions. So they can be partially excused for not being able to predict the future, but there really isn't an excuse for allowing themselves to get into such a terrible situation. The deals were engineered at practically the last minute, when there was not the opportunity to assess them carefully.

I agree too. I'm a supporter of McD, I like the direction the franchise is going... but that was definitely a bad day. The Dragic trade was a great job of salvaging what seemed like a unwinnable situation but the Thomas and Knight trades were knee jerk moves that were unnecessary. If I had to listen to my gut on how it went down it is probably even more negative on McD than the picture you paint. I think the first deal they worked out was the Thomas one with Boston but it was entirely to appease Goran, then Goran said "screw you anyway", so they moved him and I think the Boston trade still went down because of McD and Ainge having a history. And then of course the Knight trade was a desperate attempt to salvage the season (we were still very much in the playoff hunt at that point).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the first deal they worked out was the Thomas one with Boston but it was entirely to appease Goran, then Goran said "screw you anyway", so they moved him and I think the Boston trade still went down because of McD and Ainge having a history. And then of course the Knight trade was a desperate attempt to salvage the season (we were still very much in the playoff hunt at that point).

I agree with this but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the Knight deal had much to do with that season nor was it the result of panic. I think he just flat-out miscalculated the value of Knight and he thought he was getting a player beginning his growth into stardom. Given that we had just acquired 2 future picks and it was looking like the Lakers pick might not even activate for several years, I guess he figured he had very little to lose.

I have no idea if there's merit but I also heard from a couple of people on a Suns FB group that Thomas wasn't a perfect angel and his manipulations contributed heavily to the divide in the locker room even before he and Goran had their locker room dust-up. So while I think we already had a tentative Thomas deal in place prior to the trade demand from Dragic, I also think we might have been motivated sellers due to the chemistry issues he was at least a party to.

 

[Mainstreet]

McDonough did certainly miscalculate the value of Knight, IT and the Lakers first round pick. He also seemingly rushed the Knight trade. I'm not doubting McDonough had done a thorough profile on Knight as a player they might want to acquire in the future. This is what he does for almost every player. He takes pride in such knowledge. However, the tone of Lon Babby and Ryan McDonough after the trades smacks of a knee jerk reaction.

The following is from a Paul Coro article at azecentral dated 2-20-15.

In a press conference about Thursday's three Suns trades, including dealing Dragic to Miami, President of Basketball Operations Lon Babby and General Manager Ryan McDonough defended the franchise and their moves by casting Dragic as selfish and saying there are better players on the roster (Eric Bledsoe and Markieff Morris) and joining the team (Brandon Knight).

In commenting on Knight, McDonough also added, "We feel like we got the best player in the trade, coming or going."

When a person is angry, the chances of making a bad decision are greater. The Suns front office were certainly angry about Dragic demanding a trade leading to the Suns making, IMO, a hasty decision about Knight.

Perhaps we are all saying the same thing but looking at it from different perspectives.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...bby-ryan-mcdonough-press-conference/23744665/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe, but the reality is that the Suns' front office was panicked, and when you are panicked, you rarely make your best decisions. So they can be partially excused for not being able to predict the future, but there really isn't an excuse for allowing themselves to get into such a terrible situation. The deals were engineered at practically the last minute, when there was not the opportunity to assess them carefully.

I am not sure they were panicked. They really liked Brandon Knight and had been trying to get him for a while. They had no idea when the Laker pick was going to transfer and then where it might fall. IT and Dragan were not getting along in the locker room and IT was some to blame. The IT signing was an insurance signing in case they could not get Bledsoe back, so he was likely expendable in their minds.

Its easy to look at that trade and see how bad it is now, but at the moment, it did not nearly seem as bad.

 

[sunsfan88]

Although it did not happen in a single trade, trading IT for a late first round draft pick and then trading the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight might end up the worst NBA trades in Suns history.

The only mitigating factor is trading Dragic to the Heat for two first round draft picks.

Saw an article the other day about how the Suns trading IT was worse than OKC trading James Harden away because OKC at least Steven Adams out of it while the Suns lost the LAL pick and also acquired the worst player in the league statistically in the same deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Saw an article the other day about how the Suns trading IT was worse than OKC trading James Harden away because OKC at least Steven Adams out of it while the Suns lost the LAL pick and also acquired the worst player in the league statistically in the same deal.

It was a bad trade by any standard. I hope McDonough learned from this.

 

[elindholm]

Its easy to look at that trade and see how bad it is now, but at the moment, it did not nearly seem as bad.

A lot of us on this board hated both trades as soon as they were made, and said so.

 

[sunsfan88]

A lot of us on this board hated both trades as soon as they were made, and said so.

And we were all called "Dragic homers" at the time because of it as well.

 

[Errntknght]

I hated the acquisition of Knight far more than any other aspect of that group of deals - it signaled that McD had not learned that two combo guards as your starting backcourt was not smart basketball - made worse by Knight's delusions about his PG skills. To think the basis of the original idea was Hornacek -a SG with minimal PG skills - paired with John Stockton, one of all time great PGs. Booker paired with Chris Paul would be a great approximation of that idea. Bledsoe and Dragic paired was nothing like it though they did give us a pretty good fastbreak. Ish Smith ran Jeff's anemic halfcourt offense better than either of them.
Heck, if we hadn't drafted Booker McD would probably still be trying to make a go with two combo guards starting in the backcourt.

 

[sunsfan88]

I hated the acquisition of Knight far more than any other aspect of that group of deals - it signaled that McD had not learned that two combo guards as your starting backcourt was not smart basketball - made worse by Knight's delusions about his PG skills. To think the basis of the original idea was Hornacek -a SG with minimal PG skills - paired with John Stockton, one of all time great PGs. Booker paired with Chris Paul would be a great approximation of that idea. Bledsoe and Dragic paired was nothing like it though they did give us a pretty good fastbreak. Ish Smith ran Jeff's anemic halfcourt offense better than either of them.
Heck, if we hadn't drafted Booker McD would probably still be trying to make a go with two combo guards starting in the backcourt.

That's truly scary to think about. Imagine Knight and Bledsoe being the starting backcourt for multiple seasons.

And I'll give BC (if he still posts here) credit for calling it on the starting two combo guard lineup. He was against it from the start and wanted the Suns to get a traditional SG and many, many here including myself at times disagreed with him vehemently.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would love to see the thread with those reactions. I remember being unnerved by Milwaukee fans assessment of Knight, but hoped since he was young he would improve.

I was bothered by Goran's reaction to things but not by the trade. He was going to walk in the summer anyway. I thought two firsts was an amazing return since we weren't going to the playoffs anyway.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would love to see the thread with those reactions. I remember being unnerved by Milwaukee fans assessment of Knight, but hoped since he was young he would improve.

I was bothered by Goran's reaction to things but not by the trade. He was going to walk in the summer anyway. I thought two firsts was an amazing return since we weren't going to the playoffs anyway.

I didn't have a big problem with it but I do remember a lot of posters did. And I still don't have as big a problem with it as some do. I understood the reasoning and if Knight had been the player promised, it would have been a good deal. As I recall, the concern was all about the Lakers pick at first, followed by some Knight bashing. I don't remember too many upset with the Thomas trade at all.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh, that was the big concern. We all had big plans for that Laker pick. We were watching the Lakers record that season just licking our chops. But it still has not transferred. McD guessed right about that part.

I am sure he thought that by now Knight would have developed into an All-star level player and the Lakers would pull some signficant free agents and the pick would end up as a mid-first rounder.

It wasn't an unreasonable bet to make. It just didn't work out that way.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Although it did not happen in a single trade, trading IT for a late first round draft pick and then trading the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight might end up the worst NBA trades in Suns history.

The only mitigating factor is trading Dragic to the Heat for two first round draft picks.

That late first and Morris ended up being Chriss.

Hard to say how that one will work out.

 

[Errntknght]

That late first and Morris ended up being Chriss.

Hard to say how that one will work out.

Its already a plus - Markieff is gone!