Gambo's TMAC/Kobe to Phoenix article

slinslin

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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cheapseats/gambo/0419rant.html
Suns in best position ever to give Colangelo a ring

John Gambadoro
Special for azcentral.com
Apr. 19, 2004 10:50 AM


Now that the sale of the Phoenix Suns has been announced and the reality of a Jerry Colangelo-less team has set in, it's time for the organization to get back to the drawing board and attempt to give both Colangelo and the fans the one thing they have been missing, an NBA Championship. The clock is ticking and it's now at three years and counting to send the longtime owner out with a ticker-tape parade in downtown Phoenix. While a championship at any time after 2006-2007 season will still feel special to Colangelo, the truth is, when full ownership has transferred over to Robert Sarver and his group, it will no longer be Colangelo's team, even if he has a token title of chairman.

And perhaps in the history of the organization, no off-season has had as much potential to upgrade as this one. With names like Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady possibly there for the taking and the Suns about to be in one of the league's best possible salary-cap situations, there is no reason not to believe a big splash is coming.

This past week word out of Orlando was that if McGrady wouldn't agree to stay past next season - when he becomes a free agent - then he will be traded. McGrady has let those close to him know he is interested in playing for the Suns. The Suns know this and are ready to pounce should that opportunity present itself.

But first they have their sights set on Bryant, and they believe they can get him. In all likelihood Bryant will leave the Los Angeles Lakers and all of the problems that have arisen from his relationships with Phil Jackson and Shaquille O'Neal. Bryant is not liked by his teammates. It is not his team. He has not been given the same credit that Shaq has gotten for the Lakers' success. It is time to move on and establish a new identity. To lead a new team to championship and get the recognition and respect that should come with it.

Bryant is at the top of the Suns' wish list. There are about 50 scenarios the Suns are looking at but No. 1 is Bryant. He would give them the toughness they are looking for, he would become the leader of the team, and he would fill America West Arena on a regular basis. And with the right talent around him, he could lift the Suns to the top of the NBA.

While getting Bryant could be as easy as offering him the maximum amount available as a free agent should he opt out of his current contract, getting McGrady now will not be that easy. To get McGrady, the Suns would have to give up players and possibly draft picks. Which is why the Suns will be reluctant to get McGrady before knowing about Bryant. And having been burned by Antonio McDyess before entering a contract year, the Suns would want assurances that if they traded for McGrady he wouldn't bolt when he becomes a free agent after next season.

The Suns would not want to give up the farm to get McGrady and then somehow not get Bryant, leaving McGrady in a similar situation to what he went through in Orlando this year. Any deal involving McGrady would include former All-Star forward Shawn Marion, who like McGrady is a maximum contract player. Marion has tremendous value around the league. He is young, athletic, has been an All-Star, represented the United States at the World Championships and comes with no baggage. He is a good player, not a great player, but a good one. Any team would love to have him. Throw in the Suns' first-round pick, which will be somewhere in the top 7 and a serviceable role player, which the Suns have plenty of, and Orlando General Manager John Weisbrod may be hard pressed to find a better deal.

The Magic could start their rebuilding process on the right foot with a trade like that. What the Suns would like to avoid is having Joe Johnson in any deal involving McGrady. Johnson showed tremendous improvement this season and appears to have turned the corner. He is now looked upon as a big piece of the Suns' future rather than a player who hasn't found himself. After the trade of Stephon Marbury, and during the time that Amare Stoudemire was injured, Johnson became the leader of the team. He played the best basketball of his career in that stretch and made the trade of Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk for him and a first-round pick (that turned out to be Casey Jacobsen) look completely one-sided.

If the Suns are successful in luring Bryant to Phoenix, then they could very well make a full-court press to trade for McGrady. Knowing they have Bryant will make giving up Marion and other players a lot easier. Word around the league is that Bryant will either stay in LA or go to Phoenix, that the Los Angeles Clippers, Memphis Grizzlies and New York Knicks are not an option for him. So at worst the Suns have a 50-50 chance.

Getting either one of those players would make the Suns a serious contender in the West. Getting both would make them the odds on favorite to win the NBA championship for the next five years.

The problem would be, there is only one ball and with Bryant, McGrady and Stoudemire there are three egos. But that's a pretty nice problem to have if you are Mike D'Antoni. For the good of the team, all three would have to sacrifice numbers for the sake of wins. Bryant has had to do that with Shaq, McGrady should be dying to do that with what he has gone through. And Stoudemire, who is blossoming into a star, is more mature than one would think for someone only 20 years old. He is already a leader and he has a tremendous amount of respect for McGrady.

Getting Bryant and McGrady would almost assure Colangelo that he would leave on top. It sounds far-fetched but make no mistake that the Suns brass has talked about the possibility. The thought here is, Bryant is coming and that a whole lot would have to happen to get McGrady. But with cap money to burn, good players to trade and a high draft pick, the Suns have never been in a better position. And like Colangelo said, there are more days behind him then in front of him. Tick Tock. Tick Tock. Tick Tock...

I don't understand Gambo's logic to wait and trade for McGrady only once they got Kobe.

First of all would the Orlando Magic trade McGrady to us so we would have Kobe,TMac and Amare?

Second of all we would have that top7 pick on our payroll until we trade for TMac.

Third of all , wouldn't TMac make it more attractive for Kobe to join Amare and TMac in Phoenix?
 
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elindholm

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The article is irrationally optimistic. Since when is it "word around the league" that McGrady wants to play in Phoenix, or that Bryant has already ruled out everyone except the Lakers and Suns? One idle speculative quote here or there does not provide real information. Are these the same people who had Kidd going to San Antonio, Webber leaving the Kings, and so on?
 

elindholm

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Also, it's way too early to declare Joe Johnson's mental blocks solved. He had some great games after the Marbury trade, but after the shock wore off, he had his share of lousy games too. It's telling that he did his best when either Stoudemire or Marion was injured. How will he fare as the distant fourth option behind three All-Stars?
 

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I can't really see the point of T-Mac and Kobe. If you have Kobe, you need complementary players and not more guys who need to shoot 20 times a game. Marion's ability to rebound, get out on the break, and get offensive rebounds becomes even more valuable if you have Kobe.
 

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elindholm said:
Also, it's way too early to declare Joe Johnson's mental blocks solved. He had some great games after the Marbury trade, but after the shock wore off, he had his share of lousy games too. It's telling that he did his best when either Stoudemire or Marion was injured. How will he fare as the distant fourth option behind three All-Stars?

I understand the idea of Marion going because of his max contract. However, Marion grabs boards we desperatly need. Plus, if you have a starting guard tandem of Kobe and McGrady, JJ is superfluous. What would be great would be a lineup of Kobe, McGrady, Marion, Amare, and the Magic Lamp! :) One can dream!! :)
 

elindholm

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Plus, if you have a starting guard tandem of Kobe and McGrady, JJ is superfluous.

Johnson would start at PG in the Bryant-McGrady fantasy scenarios, with one of them replacing Marion at SF.
 
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slinslin

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JJ/TMac/Kobe would be nightmares to every team.

All big guards who can handle the ball and pass and with Amare and McDyess in the post they can't be double teamed.

If Marion was leaving the Suns , Amare will make up for his rebounding.

TMac, Kobe and JJ are still 3 of the best rebounding 1,2,3s in the league.

Except the rebounding there is absolutely nothing that Kobe and TMac don't do better than Marion. Except TMac and Marion defensively might be a wash.
 

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George O'Brien said:
I can't really see the point of T-Mac and Kobe. If you have Kobe, you need complementary players and not more guys who need to shoot 20 times a game. Marion's ability to rebound, get out on the break, and get offensive rebounds becomes even more valuable if you have Kobe.

That is exactly it. Marion's skill set would be a much better complement to Kobe that T-Mac would.

To me, if you really want Kobe and T-Mac, then JJ is the one to go. It's Marion's max salary that keeps that from happening.
 

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I love it how Gambo is bashed 24/7 here but comes up with this pipe dream and he is lauded like he is in the "know".

Both of these scenarios occuring are highly, highly unlikely. My guess is Shaq is going to retire very soon and Lakers management will tell Kobe whatever he needs to hear to stay in LA.

McGrady is a possibility because Grant Hill's yearly "comeback" does not allow the Magic to finally notch his contract off the books because of injury. So they can't sign anyone else to any contracts that can help the team. He is definately available
 

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I hate Gambo on the radio he blast the Suns and the fans for thinking that Kobe and T-Mac would come here and then he writes this saying this is the best thing that could happen. I really wish he would go back to NY and root for team he likes. eeerrrrrrrrrr!
 

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slinslin said:
Except the rebounding there is absolutely nothing that Kobe and TMac don't do better than Marion. Except TMac and Marion defensively might be a wash.

Marion is a better rebounder, shot blocker, defender, steals more balls, and scores much more efficiently than T-Mac (Marion's a career .460 shooter while T-Mac is at .400).

I'll just say it. I don't see T-Mac as an upgrade (all around) over Marion.
 
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slinslin

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TMac also gets double and triple teamed every single minute he is on the floor unlike Marion.

Marion is a stat stuffer.

Also TMac doubles Marion's 3pt attempts, FT attempts, assists...
 
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JCSunsfan

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slinslin said:
TMac also gets double and triple teamed every single minute he is on the floor unlike Marion.

Marion is a stat stuffer.

T-Mac is the only viable offensive weapon on his team, therefore he gets all the touches. T-Mac is a stat-stuffer.

This argument works both ways.
 

George O'Brien

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slinslin said:
TMac also gets double and triple teamed every single minute he is on the floor unlike Marion.

Marion is a stat stuffer.

T-Mac is a better player, but Marion would be a better fit for a team with Kobe.
 
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slinslin

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JCSunsfan said:
(Marion's a career .460 shooter while T-Mac is at .400).

McGrady is a career 45%FG shooter , Marion is a career 46% shooter while not drawing nearly as much defensive attention and not shooting as many 3s.
 
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slinslin

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George O'Brien said:
T-Mac is a better player, but Marion would be a better fit for a team with Kobe.

A better player is always a better fit with someone. Unless they don't want to play together.

Also Marion is a playoff choker. He gets shut down 1 on 1.
 

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slinslin said:
McGrady is a career 45%FG shooter , Marion is a career 46% shooter while not drawing nearly as much defensive attention and not shooting as many 3s.

You're right on the stats, I misread his 2003-4 line as his career line.
 

George O'Brien

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slinslin said:
A better player is always a better fit with someone. Unless they don't want to play together.

Also Marion is a playoff choker. He gets shut down 1 on 1.

On a team with Kobe, Amare, JJ and Dice - does that really matter?

For a guy who gets shut down all the time, he still managed to average 19 ppg on 44% shooting and got his three point shooting up to 34% after being awful the first four months of the season. Can you imagine what he would have done if he wasn't being shut down all time? :rolleyes:

Seriously, Shawn does need to work on his game. Under FJ he was just a catch and shoot guy in the half court. He gets around his man often enough, but Shawn needs to learn to go either direction on his drives, initiate contact when he gets close to basket, and become a better interior passer.
 
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slinslin

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Yes it does.

Especially when you make max dollar, want to be a leader too and play only average defense.

And besides that TMac shot 42% in 03/04. Not 40%.
 

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I would much rather have T-Mac driving to the hole to win the game instead of Marion shooting a three. If Marion took the ball to the basket he would be a great player instead he trys to stay behind the arc and shoots. Marion is a great ft shooter but never gets to the line.
 

George O'Brien

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SweetD said:
I would much rather have T-Mac driving to the hole to win the game instead of Marion shooting a three. If Marion took the ball to the basket he would be a great player instead he trys to stay behind the arc and shoots. Marion is a great ft shooter but never gets to the line.

He started going strong to the basket late in the season, but he needs to do a lot more. Amare showed how effective it can be and it has the added benefit of getting opponents into foul trouble.

One of the things that all the Suns need to do is to "take the extra dribble" and get around people rather than trying to jump from the baseline. The Suns get a disproportionate number of offensive fouls because they commit to their attack path too early. Shawn doesn't get as many offensive fouls because he avoids contact, but it cuts down on fouls shots as well.

I'm sure it is at least partially an issue of experience, but I don't get the feeling the Suns have a feel for when the defender is inside the basket circle or outside. If the guy is inside the ciricle, they should run into them as hard as they can since it is automatic foul. Outside the basket circle, they should takethe extra dribble to get around the guy and make him move and THEN run into him.
 
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slinslin

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Maybe Shawn Marion did improve late in the season although it was just by a little if anything.
If at all Shawn Marion has levelled off this season.

Bottom line is that TMac is a much better player than Marion, with much more charisma, more experience and younger too.
 

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slinslin said:
Maybe Shawn Marion did improve late in the season although it was just by a little if anything.
If at all Shawn Marion has levelled off this season.

Bottom line is that TMac is a much better player than Marion, with much more charisma, more experience and younger too.
Don't forget leadership... even though T-Mac complain last year he still would lead his team into battle and get in the faces of guys that are not getting it done. Instead of putting his head down and not saying anything. Marion is a great player but if it came down to who I would want on the floor T-Mac would be my choice. Marion and T-Mac are getting the same amount of cash the best ROI is T-Mac.
 

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slinslin said:
Maybe Shawn Marion did improve late in the season although it was just by a little if anything.
If at all Shawn Marion has levelled off this season.

Bottom line is that TMac is a much better player than Marion, with much more charisma, more experience and younger too.

And a history of back trouble.

As it stands now, Marion will be making $11.3 million next season to $14.5 million for McGrady. McGrady has a player option for next season, so the Suns could end up having him walk away. Or else T-Mac could hold up the Suns for a lot more than the $15.7 million he is scheduled to receive in 2005-06.
 
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slinslin

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TMac is worth whatever you can give him. Unlike Shawn Marion he will fill seats, sell jerseys etc.

A history of back trouble? But he is still playing with it and at top5 level. That's almost like saying Marion has a history of twisting his ankle.
 

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