Gambo's TMAC/Kobe to Phoenix article

[Chaplin]

It is not about debating trade ideas. I have included suggestions that included trading Marion myself. But the trade discussions always seem to degenerate into bad mouthing Marion because he is not a gunner.

The urge to have a guy "take over the game" is great, but there is more to being a good player than one on one skills. I think Marion complements the skills of the Amare and JJ to make this a better team. I would like to add another shooter but I hate the idea of losing what Marion brings to the team.

For the record, I like Marion, and I like what he brings to the team, when he's playing well (which wasn't often this season). But when discussing Marion vs. TMac, well, to me that's a no-brainer. Marion vs. Pierce is much more of a debate, and I'd probably lean to Marion in that situation.

I just can't understand why what Marion brings to the team is a lot better than what TMac would bring to the team instead. To me, that's ridiculous.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

For the record, I like Marion, and I like what he brings to the team, when he's playing well (which wasn't often this season). But when discussing Marion vs. TMac, well, to me that's a no-brainer. Marion vs. Pierce is much more of a debate, and I'd probably lean to Marion in that situation.

I just can't understand why what Marion brings to the team is a lot better than what TMac would bring to the team instead. To me, that's ridiculous.

Ditto. The only issue at hand is whether or not he would be satisfied as a second or third option on offense. My guess is no, and we know Marion would be. Only thing that makes it a tough choice.

 

[Chaplin]

Ditto. The only issue at hand is whether or not he would be satisfied as a second or third option on offense. My guess is no, and we know Marion would be. Only thing that makes it a tough choice.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I think everyone assumes a lot about TMac because he had to do everything himself this season. His team stunk, and he took it upon himself to try to win games himself. I'm not sure he likes to do that.

I just don't think we here in the West are accurate assessors of Tracy McGrady, at least, not nearly as much as we are of Kobe Bryant and Shawn Marion.

 

[George O'Brien]

For the record, I like Marion, and I like what he brings to the team, when he's playing well (which wasn't often this season). But when discussing Marion vs. TMac, well, to me that's a no-brainer. Marion vs. Pierce is much more of a debate, and I'd probably lean to Marion in that situation.

I just can't understand why what Marion brings to the team is a lot better than what TMac would bring to the team instead. To me, that's ridiculous.

My problem is that the it is not a straight Marion for T-Mac. T-Mac is primary offense player and Marion isn't, so the only way the Suns can make the deal attractive to Orlando is by strip mining their younger players. It would be one thing to strip mine the team for a potentially dominant big man, but I am less enthusiastic when it is for a guard, no matter how talented.

For example, it seems like everyone wants to trade away Vujanic before we even know if he is any good. All the reports are that he is a lot better than Tony Parker, yet he is viewed as just another chip to throw into the pile in some blind hope that they just offer enough to get Orlando to bite. Lampe has only shown brief glimmers of what he might become. Barbosa is no where near where he will be in a couple of years. Yet even these guys might not be enough.

I don't see any way that this sort of deal makes sense either way. Orlando loses its only star and the Suns end up giving away players before knowing what they have. Getting rid of Lampe eliminates the best chance the Suns have of a future star center.

At some point the only way to justify strip mining the team is to diminsh the value Marion provides on the theory that this justifies giving away the other players.

I am pretty sure the Suns won't see it that way.

 

[slinslin]

Btw, I wouldn't be concerned about trading future picks this season.

They NBA will probably install an age limit in the near future which will result in some really weak drafts.

 

[playstation]

think of it this way:

remove any thought of the 2003-2004 season, we just finished the 2002-2003 season, what would you give for TMac? He had a horrible year as far as team success, but lets not forget his success in the past even with pretty terrible teams.

Even if we gave up marion jj and 1st round pick, we have a steal, and public relations will go a long way as well.

theres something to be said about becoming 'America's Team', and that's what we would be with Kobe, Amare, and Tracy on the same team.

 

[SweetD]

It will not take that much to move Tmac from Orlando. The Suns are way to high on JJ plus his contract is very small right now. Remeber you can go over the cap to sign your own players. IMO the Suns will be willing to keep a core of JJ, Kobe, Tmac, Amare and future C together no mater what the cost. The draft picks will be big but only for role players with this team and they can be picked up in late 1st and 2nd rounds.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

What the suns need is a veteran point guard who loves to pass. Someone like mark jackson just not as old. If the suns get kobe or tmac jj better learn to love that point guard spot.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

If amare had problems playing alongside marbury I don't think he'll get along with both kobe AND tmac at all.

 

[Chaplin]

If amare had problems playing alongside marbury I don't think he'll get along with both kobe AND tmac at all.

I also think that the problems he had with Steph are blown out of proportion--perpetuated by fans who were trying to justify the trade beyond the money issue.

So I don't think that can be used as an argument AGAINST getting those guys.

 

[slinslin]

Here is a good trade I think.

---------
Shawn Marion, top7 pick, Zarko, Jacobsen, conditional Orlando 2nd round pick and the rights to Vujanic

for TMac and Orlando's 2nd rounder this season.
---------

Before send the Cavs pick to San Antonio to complete the Barbosa deal. Send our 2005 unconditional first round pick and money to Charlotte with Jahidi White and get an agreement that they waive him. They would probably do that anyway to get capspace.

We could pick up Jahidi for the minimum again since he loves it in Phoenix they say.

Replace Jacobsen with a veteran minimum FA like Wesley Person.

The backup SF role could be filled with the 2nd rounder from Orlando.

Resign McDyess and sign Kobe.

McDyess/Voshkul/White
Amare/Lampe
McGrady/2nd round pick
Kobe/Person
JJ/Barbosa/Eisley

 

[Chaplin]

5 players for TMac (I cancelled out the 2nd rounders)?? You must be smoking.

 

[slinslin]

Why not?

It is only 3 for 1 anyway considering neither Vujanic nor the top7 pick were part of the roster this season.

The Suns need to make a deal for TMac as cap friendly as possible.

 

[Joe Mama]

I also think that the problems he had with Steph are blown out of proportion--perpetuated by fans who were trying to justify the trade beyond the money issue.

So I don't think that can be used as an argument AGAINST getting those guys.

I respectfully disagree. I mean even in his latest chat he made references to how the team with Marbury really wasn't as good as it looked last season. He talks about how much more he likes being the focus of the offense. He has said that Marbury was not a good leader because he did not always practice. And frankly you could see it on Amare's face several times every game when Marbury was here.

I think Amare Stoudemire was frustrated, and coaching staff and organization felt they would be better in the long run making him the focus of the offense instead of Marbury.

I do think it might be an issue if the Phoenix Suns brought in another star player. However, Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady are so much better than Marbury that it's worth the risk. They will also have a more positive effect as far as money and attention goes.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

They also move around without the ball rather than dribbling down the shotclock.

The Nets exposed Marbury last night.