Gambo's TMAC/Kobe to Phoenix article

[George O'Brien]

TMac is worth whatever you can give him. Unlike Shawn Marion he will fill seats, sell jerseys etc.

A history of back trouble? But he is still playing with it and at top5 level. That's almost like saying Marion has a history of twisting his ankle.

I'm less concerned about selling seats and jerseys than if we are putting together the right mix of players. I am not convinced Kobe and T-Mac would complement each other at all.

Assuming the Suns sign Kobe, I would rather use Marion as trade bait for a legimate center than for another guard. For example, it might be possible to put together a package of Marion, Voskuhl, a draft pick and another player to the Sixers for Dalembert and Glen Robinson (on the last year of his contract).

I'm not saying they would take it, but for the Suns would end up with a lineup of

C - Dalembert, Lampe
PF - Stoudemire, Dice
SF - Johnson, Carbakapa, Robinson
SG - Kobe, Jacobsen
PG - Vujanic, Barbosa, Eisley

I don't like Robinson, but that is the only way the deal works under the cap. I'm guessing that either Vujanic or Barbosa would end up being included in such a deal, but not both. This looks like a very promising lineup and it gets much better in 2005 when Robinson comes off cap.

My point is that this kind of deal makes more sense than paying the same price for McGrady.

 

[slinslin]

I don't get it.

We are talking about acquiring 2 top5 players and some people are against it.

Plus we have Amare who might join that company soon.

Even if it doesn't pan out on the court. We could shop Kobe or TMac and we could get almost anything. Especially if TMac signs an extension with the Suns before.

And TMac already made clear he would sign an extension if he is surrounded by good players.

 

[SweetD]

I'm less concerned about selling seats and jerseys than if we are putting together the right mix of players. I am not convinced Kobe and T-Mac would complement each other at all.

Assuming the Suns sign Kobe, I would rather use Marion as trade bait for a legimate center than for another guard. For example, it might be possible to put together a package of Marion, Voskuhl, a draft pick and another player to the Sixers for Dalembert and Glen Robinson (on the last year of his contract).

I'm not saying they would take it, but for the Suns would end up with a lineup of

C - Dalembert, Lampe
PF - Stoudemire, Dice
SF - Johnson, Carbakapa, Robinson
SG - Kobe, Jacobsen
PG - Vujanic, Barbosa, Eisley

I don't like Robinson, but that is the only way the deal works under the cap. I'm guessing that either Vujanic or Barbosa would end up being included in such a deal, but not both. This looks like a very promising lineup and it gets much better in 2005 when Robinson comes off cap.

My point is that this kind of deal makes more sense than paying the same price for McGrady.

Dalembert is not worth that much at all. Dalembert from what I see does have some of the best timing on blocks I have seen since Ewing but right now he is not worth Marion. I would trade our #1 pick this year for him though.

 

[sly fly]

I can't really see the point of T-Mac and Kobe. If you have Kobe, you need complementary players and not more guys who need to shoot 20 times a game. Marion's ability to rebound, get out on the break, and get offensive rebounds becomes even more valuable if you have Kobe.

I can't believe...

... what I just read.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't get it.

We are talking about acquiring 2 top5 players and some people are against it.

Plus we have Amare who might join that company soon.

Even if it doesn't pan out on the court. We could shop Kobe or TMac and we could get almost anything. Especially if TMac signs an extension with the Suns before.

And TMac already made clear he would sign an extension if he is surrounded by good players.

I can't believe...

... what I just read.

I'm with you guys.

I'm wondering what all these people are really interested in. There's a lot to be said about watching a competitive team on the floor 82 games a year.

But it's another to say 82 games are nice, but I prefer the games after those 82.

Which group would produce the most championships?

Kobe/Marion/Amare
Kobe/TMac/Amare

To me, that is a total no-brainer!

Like I've said countless times before, a competitive team year in and year out is great, but one that gets to the playoffs and bows out by the 2nd round isn't my idea of successful.

I want a damn championship! Haven't you old-timers gotten tired of NOT having one?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I hate Gambo on the radio he blast the Suns and the fans for thinking that Kobe and T-Mac would come here and then he writes this saying this is the best thing that could happen. I really wish he would go back to NY and root for team he likes. eeerrrrrrrrrr!

I love it how Gambo is bashed 24/7 here but comes up with this pipe dream and he is lauded like he is in the "know".

Techincally, he came up with back in Feb or early march. There was another thread on here about it back then. He never blasted suns fans about thinking the two would come here, he was the first person to promote the idea.

Actually, Joe had to call in and point out how the salaries didn't work in his trade proposals.

It is definitely a pipe dream though.

From what I remember, he claimed last time it was well known that Kobe and TMAC would love to play together (think of how barkley and jordan always said they would love to play together). There was some other lines he fed.

Honestley, I wonder where he gets his info. Don't forget, he said the suns had made a promise to Zarko months before the draft, and was laughed off. For such an idiot, he gets lucky with these things from time to time.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Which group would produce the most championships?

Kobe/Marion/Amare
Kobe/TMac/Amare

To me, that is a total no-brainer!

You know what, for a while I have agreed that Marion would be better around Kobe than TMAC. Although, this statement definitely made me realise something.

IMO,

the suns would have a better record with Marion/Kobe/Amare in the regular season. Chemistry should be better, and the players compliment each other.

However, you are right. A Kobe/Tmac/Amare team will have more success when it matters. There is something to be said about top talents. They make it work when they need to.

 

[SweetD]

I don't know sure they would be younger but the Lakers at time are having the issue of who's team it is and if we brought Kobe and TMac in the same year, they both would be trying to establish whoes team it is.

 

[Joe Mama]

This Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Amare Stoudemire Union seems so unlikely that I can't believe someone would actually write a published article about it. Honestly if this did happen the Phoenix Suns would probably have to trade JJ and Shawn Marion to get McGrady. Oh forget it. I don't even feel like bothering with this.

Frankly I think it's pretty unlikely that we would get either Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady I couldn't even fathom getting them both.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

This Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Amare Stoudemire Union seems so unlikely that I can't believe someone would actually write a published article about it. Honestly if this did happen the Phoenix Suns would probably have to trade JJ and Shawn Marion to get McGrady. Oh forget it. I don't even feel like bothering with this.

Frankly I think it's pretty unlikely that we would get either Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady I couldn't even fathom getting them both.

Joe Mama

Come on Joe, it's still over a month until the lottery--what ELSE is there to talk about?

 

[JS22]

All I can say is:

Johnson
Bryant
McGrady
Amare
Mcdyess

 

[Chaplin]

All I can say is:

Johnson
Bryant
McGrady
Amare
Mcdyess

Amen brutha!

 

[Joe Mama]

All I can say is:

Johnson
Bryant
McGrady
Amare
Mcdyess

All I can say is:

Pigs flying
Hell freezes over
Me as the NBA MVP next season
The Cardinals winning the Super Bowl next season
Peace on earth and goodwill towards man

The odds are roughly the same.

Call me the party pooper.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

All I can say is:

Pigs flying
Hell freezes over
Me as the NBA MVP next season
The Cardinals winning the Super Bowl next season
Peace on earth and goodwill towards man

The odds are roughly the same.

Call me the party pooper.

Joe Mama

PARTY POOPER!!

 

[scotsman13]

dream, dream, dream, ..... dream again dreamer. if this were a single player game where you could just add up all of the players stats without worrying about what the other team could do and what weaknesses your team had as long as you could out score them, then dallas is going to be the nba champion this season. and while dallas can be fun to watch at times not many people really believe that they can win a championship. it would be the same with this team with kobe and tmac on it. there is no "I" in team and because of that this team wouldnt be able to win a championship.


give me a team that is well balanced, hard working and has had time to grow together with 2 star players and i will give you a championship. amare and jj maybe those stars with marion as the prefect role player.

 

[slinslin]

But there is a "ME" in team.

The Lakers, Spurs... They are all well balanced huh?

And a perfect role player doesn't cash in a max contract.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

slinslin,

The worlds biggest broken record. Yappity schmacty about Marion all season long.

Here I will stick another finger in your blinded eyes.

Marion was MUCH better than JJ the last month of the season.


Now then, this is simply the most rediculous thread on here in a long while. Kobe wants to go somewhere and be the man.

I believe he could somewhat exist with Amare...maybe.

I don't believe that Kobe, Amare, and T-Mac would be happy with the touches they get here. You think the problems in LA are bad?

If the Suns do somehow manage to sign Kobe, then you are looking at having 4 max players on the Suns roster even with this scenario (since I will be amazed if Amare doesn't get the max). This is why this scenario simply won't happen.

Even if the Suns do manage to sign Kobe, I am pretty sure they will be looking to trade Marion sometime before Amare is up for an extension.

If the Suns somehow completed this rediculous scenario, then they would have to give T-Mac another super long term contract.

Hopefully this little dose of reality is the end of this this pipe dream.

 

[Chaplin]

slinslin,

The worlds biggest broken record. Yappity schmacty about Marion all season long.

Here I will stick another finger in your blinded eyes.

Marion was MUCH better than JJ the last month of the season.


Now then, this is simply the most rediculous thread on here in a long while. Kobe wants to go somewhere and be the man.

I believe he could somewhat exist with Amare...maybe.

I don't believe that Kobe, Amare, and T-Mac would be happy with the touches they get here. You think the problems in LA are bad?

If the Suns do somehow manage to sign Kobe, then you are looking at having 4 max players on the Suns roster even with this scenario (since I will be amazed if Amare doesn't get the max). This is why this scenario simply won't happen.

Even if the Suns do manage to sign Kobe, I am pretty sure they will be looking to trade Marion sometime before Amare is up for an extension.

If the Suns somehow completed this rediculous scenario, then they would have to give T-Mac another super long term contract.

Hopefully this little dose of reality is the end of this this pipe dream.

You're all a bunch of party poopers.

Chris, are you calling Joe Johnson a max player already? Sorry, but he hasn't earned that distinction yet.

Scotsman, you bring up Dallas, which is a bad example. Dallas' problem isn't that they have too many stars, it's because all those stars don't play a lick of defense. That's ALWAYS been their problem. Period.

 

[slinslin]

We had 4 max players on our rosters this season and 2 of them were injured duds.

You can't tell me it would be a money issue if you have a lineup of Amare, Kobe and TMac selling out every game.

And JJ won't get the max anyway.

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns could get Kobe and Mac they would be done.

They would have no money to add supporting characters.
Next season they will max out Amare regardless.

This dream scenario might have a few bugs.

Don't the Suns presently have about the worst bench in the league?

I've totally lost my objectivity when it comes to players like Barbosa, Zarko and Lampe. I hear so much hype on the broadcasts etc. but they didn't score much this year.

 

[George O'Brien]

But there is a "ME" in team.

The Lakers, Spurs... They are all well balanced huh?

And a perfect role player doesn't cash in a max contract.

Is this about how much you like McGrady or just how much you hate Marion?

Would you love Marion if he scored more and had a lower shooting percentage like Paul Pierce?

Paul Pierce:

PPG 23.0
RPG 6.5
APG 5.1
SPG 1.64
BPG .65
FG% .402
FT% .819
3P% .299
MPG 38.7

Shawn Marion

PPG 19.0
RPG 9.3
APG 2.7
SPG 2.11
BPG 1.32
FG% .440
FT% .851
3P% .340
MPG 40.7

Marion is much stronger on the boards, gets more steals, and blocks more shots. Pierce shoots more and has more assists. Pierce makes about $1 million a year more than Marion. In spite of relatively similar statistics, Pierce is well loved in Boston and Phoenix fan seem bound and determined to trade Marion.

 

[Chaplin]

Phoenix fan seem bound and determined to trade Marion.

Since when? I don't think there's anything wrong with at least debating the possibility of trades with arguably our most tradable asset.

 

[slinslin]

Stats are all nice but guys like Paul Pierce get double coverage all the time.

Marion hardly ever draws a double team or any kind of defensive attention.


Pierce can take over games and regularly does. Marion can't unless ít is an extremely rare day for him when everything drops for him. As likely as Tony Delk 50pt games.

 

[slinslin]

Shawn Marion had only 4 30+ games this season. 31 in a loss against New Orleans when Amare was out and Mashburn for New Orleans, 32 in a loss against Sacramento without Amare and Peja scoring 36, 31 in a loss against Minnesota without Amare, 31 in a blowout win against Houston without Amare and Francis playing.

He shot 12-21 3s in those 4 games and took 23, 25, 26, 27 shots. And the Suns are 1-3.

Pierce had 20 30+ games and 1 40+ game in a down season for him and the Celtics are 14-6 in those games.

TMac had 8 40+ games alone, 2 50+ games and 1 60+ game. I am not even going to bother counting 30+ games.

 

[George O'Brien]

Since when? I don't think there's anything wrong with at least debating the possibility of trades with arguably our most tradable asset.

It is not about debating trade ideas. I have included suggestions that included trading Marion myself. But the trade discussions always seem to degenerate into bad mouthing Marion because he is not a gunner.

The urge to have a guy "take over the game" is great, but there is more to being a good player than one on one skills. I think Marion complements the skills of the Amare and JJ to make this a better team. I would like to add another shooter but I hate the idea of losing what Marion brings to the team.