Game #105-Arizona Diamondbacks (52-52) @ Miami Marlins (39-62). 7/27/2019

[BC867]

maybe if he had a better bullpen, we we suck there.

We had every reason to believe that Archie, Yoshi and Holland was a good 7-8-9 relief corps. And they were, then deteriorated.

When a group disappoints, you have to consider if they were misused, knowing Torey's obsessive managing philosophies.

We'll never know.

 

[Dback Jon]

Crichton goes through the 8th only giving up a cheap infield single

 

[AZCB34]

We had every reason to believe that Archie, Yoshi and Holland was a good 7-8-9 relief corps. And they were, then deteriorated.

When a group disappoints, you have to consider if they were misused, knowing Torey's obsessive managing philosophies.

We'll never know.

I would argue Archie want even close to good until maybe the last couple weeks...and even then he wasn't shutdown. Yoshi and Holland we're supposed to be good to go and Holland was for a while. Yoshi is inconsistent this year.

I still think it is more their ability vs coaching decisions.

TL has only so many options and he doesn't know day to day what those options will do for him

 

[Dback Jon]

McFarland pitches a clean 9th, Dbacks win 9-2

 

[AZ Native]

We had every reason to believe that Archie, Yoshi and Holland was a good 7-8-9 relief corps. And they were, then deteriorated.

When a group disappoints, you have to consider if they were misused, knowing Torey's obsessive managing philosophies.

We'll never know.

So again, it is Torey's fault. If he goes to the bullpen at the beginning of the 7th, it is his fault if relievers blow it, again. If he lets Young start the inning, as he was pitching well, and he does poorly, it is on Torey also. We won the damn game 9-2, this Torey bashing is a crazy obsession with some of you. Just relax, enjoy the ride, Torey is going to exceed all of your predictions, but he still sucks. Got it. Man, Torey knows more about baseball than you and I combined (all 143 years), but you and I could do better. Yeah, right.

 

[BC867]

So again, it is Torey's fault. If he goes to the bullpen at the beginning of the 7th, it is his fault if relievers blow it, again. If he lets Young start the inning, as he was pitching well, and he does poorly, it is on Torey also. We won the damn game 9-2, this Torey bashing is a crazy obsession with some of you. Just relax, enjoy the ride, Torey is going to exceed all of your predictions, but he still sucks. Got it. Man, Torey knows more about baseball than you and I combined (all 143 years), but you and I could do better. Yeah, right.

'Sorry, but after the experience of a 35+ year career in management, I cannot absolve
Diamondbacks management from the results of their endeavor. That is my perspective.

Except for the weather, few things happen. People make them happen. Good or bad.

If you don't hold management responsible, there is no hope. Pro-active vs. passive.

I never said that I could do better, with no experience in their field and from my living room.
It is not about you or me. I am not "obsessed" with it as you charged. I am a fan. And I
have a right to react, especially on a sports posting board, which exists for that purpose.

It would be dull if everyone posted, "All is good" every day. No one would spend their time on ASFN.

You left out the words, "I think" or "I hope" that Torey is going to exceed all of your predictions.

I hope he is, too. But the facts show that there are shortcomings. And that the D-backs are a
mediocre team. I'd rather enjoy a winning ride.

It is not my business why you are condoning mediocrity. It is my business if you tell us what to feel.

 

[AZ Native]

No one is condoning mediocrity. But we lost AJ, Goldy and Corbin and we are right where we were last year. We were all predicting worse, including you and me. If we do the swan dive again this year, Torey is gone, and rightfully so. But let it play out first. Trust me, we could do a lot worse than TL.

As far as holding management responsible, I also hold the players responsible. And yes, I was in management too. It works both ways.

 

[AZCB34]

No one is condoning mediocrity. But we lost AJ, Goldy and Corbin and we are right where we were last year. We were all predicting worse, including you and me. If we do the swan dive again this year, Torey is gone, and rightfully so. But let it play out first. Trust me, we could do a lot worse than TL.

As far as holding management responsible, I also hold the players responsible. And yes, I was in management too. It works both ways.

I see no way TL is gone regardless of how the season ends. In my opinion, the only way he is gone is if management insists on coaching changes and he digs his heels in.

I believe the only one of those three they truly miss is Corbin. Until the last 10 games the Goldy/Walker tradeoff was a wash at a significantly lower cost. AJ missed how many games? He is not missed.

We need to stop qualifying this season by bringing up who we lost all the time. This is the team and they are simply mediocre.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I see no way TL is gone regardless of how the season ends. In my opinion, the only way he is gone is if management insists on coaching changes and he digs his heels in.

I believe the only one of those three they truly miss is Corbin. Until the last 10 games the Goldy/Walker tradeoff was a wash at a significantly lower cost. AJ missed how many games? He is not missed.

We need to stop qualifying this season by bringing up who we lost all the time. This is the team and they are simply mediocre.

And the mediocrity is solely due to Toney’s ineptitude, right? [emoji15]

You are consistent... no matter the manager. It’s rarely, if ever a matter of player ability/talent, or lack thereof. Nope... somehow, managers are supposed to make mediocre talent produce like Mike Trout.
You consistently disregard the reality that there are very real differences between players and their ability to perform. It’s why some get paid $25-$30 million a year, and some make $5 million a season!

Most of the informed baseball universe hold a great deal of respect for both Hazen and Torey.
Most of the baseball universe expected this team to be mediocre at best. And although they’re a .500 team after 100 games, they remain just 2.5 games out of a wild card... So, although they are strapped to a massive contract on a guy who only touches the ball once every 5 days (Greinke), a contract Hazen and Torey had nothing to do with, they are still competing with a load of other teams.

Eh... we’ve been down this road before with you... tiring...

 

[AZCB34]

And the mediocrity is solely due to Toney’s ineptitude, right? [emoji15]

You are consistent... no matter the manager. It’s rarely, if ever a matter of player ability/talent, or lack thereof. Nope... somehow, managers are supposed to make mediocre talent produce like Mike Trout.
You consistently disregard the reality that there are very real differences between players and their ability to perform. It’s why some get paid $25-$30 million a year, and some make $5 million a season!

Most of the informed baseball universe hold a great deal of respect for both Hazen and Torey.
Most of the baseball universe expected this team to be mediocre at best. And although they’re a .500 team after 100 games, they remain just 2.5 games out of a wild card... So, although they are strapped to a massive contract on a guy who only touches the ball once every 5 days (Greinke), a contract Hazen and Torey had nothing to do with, they are still competing with a load of other teams.

Eh... we’ve been down this road before with you... tiring...

You know that I have been placing most of it on the players, right?

 

[BC867]

As far as holding management responsible, I also hold the players responsible. And yes, I was in management too. It works both ways.

Two comments. The GM providing the players is management, as is the Field Manager who decides how to utilize them.

And if one or two relief pitchers disappoint, yes, it's on the players. But if it becomes universal, it is on management.

Think back to your management days. If one or two employees have absentee problems, it is on them.

If it is widespread through the department, it is clearly on management.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You know that I have been placing most of it on the players, right?

OOOPS! Sorry dude. I didn’t mean to direct my rant at you!
Sorry for the misfire! [emoji6]

 

[AZ Native]

Two comments. The GM providing the players is management, as is the Field Manager who decides how to utilize them.

And if one or two relief pitchers disappoint, yes, it's on the players. But if it becomes universal, it is on management.

Think back to your management days. If one or two employees have absentee problems, it is on them.

If it is widespread through the department, it is clearly on management.

Or poor employees, in over their head and inconsistent.

 

[AZ Native]

I have to add that I did not pick my employees so even though I tried everything in my power, if they did not work out, it was not from the lack of effort on my part. Torey is playing the hand dealt to him and IMHO he has done well. Look at Roberts, he is an idiot with an all star roster. And somehow they will fall short again this year. Dumb Doyers.

 

[devilalum]

Over the last several years the Dbacks are middle of the league in payroll, attendance and wins.

This is their goal. Bet they have a nice bottom line.