Game Thread: Lakers @ Suns

[scotsman13]

wally and joe, i agree with you both. there is no single player in nba history that i would like to see have an amare elbow placed upside his head then malone. i would love to see malone tear out his acl just before the playoffs and be left off the laker playoff roster.



on another note anyone that thinks that this team is better off in the hands of another owwnership group should be kicked in the head 3 or dozen times. there isnt many owners out there that are anywhere close to jc. look at some of the other teams out there. look at pacers (gave away brad miller), clippers (gave up on kandi), cleveland (there only hope was to draft lebron, if they hadnt gotten him they would be moving) and this is just the start of the line. jc does the best that he can in phoenix. my god there were a great number of laker fans at this game tonight. how could the suns fans let laker fans even in the building. stand behind your team or say good bye to them and let some other city enjoy the championships that this team is building to.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
Is anyone listening to the post-game show on KTAR?

Someone called and basically said that Colangelo should sell the team if he is too afraid to go over the luxury tax to win a championship or can't afford to spend money on a center so we won't win a championship after 36 years.

Kevin Ray or whoever it was kind of went nuts and asked how Colangelo should have gotten a center and the guy who called in said that he should not have signed guys like Googs and Penny and keep money available to sign a Miller, Nesterovic or so this offseason.

Kevin Ray went absolutely nuts that the talk about a center is getting tiresome and that the Suns got their big guy in the draft with Amare when 8 teams passed.

....

I agree 99% with the guy who called in. The Suns should have at least offered the full exemption to Alonzo Mourning or Michael Olowokandi or someone.

Other teams are spending to win a championship and the Suns don't look at FAs at all because they want to shed salary.

If you think the Suns should have offered their full exemption to Alonzo Mourning you are a total moron. Let me backtrack. Who says either one of those guys would have signed here for the mid-level exemption. Zo could have signed with Dallas, but he finally had a better chance in the East. New Jersey took a huge risk signing him, and it took a three-year deal.

Everybody and their mom knows the Suns should not have signed Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway to maximum contracts. They were mistakes. Bryan Colangelo knows it. Everyone does. Of course it would be nice if they could go back in time and not sign those players. But let's talk about mistakes that have been made in the last 4-5 years.

The Phoenix Suns are a business. I'm sure they have plans for the future to get some sort of help in the middle. They know that this is really not their championship year, and because they are well over the luxury tax when they'll pay desperately for signing anyone.

I'm done.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

It sucks for all the fans that the Colangelos seem to be afraid to spend the money to improve the team right now because THEY made the big mistakes trading for McDyess, signing Googs and Penny and now waiting until their contracts run out.

It is now like 4 years that we are doing nothing in the FA market.

And how about reaching for a none athletic shooting guard when you already have Joe Johnson and Penny Hardaway and need more beef?

They should have offered their exemption to someone this offseason. Kandi, PJ Brown... there were some players available.

Based on forbes magazine the Suns made lots of money in the past. They should now bite the bullet and pay for their past mistakes and spend some money. Googs contract would expire next season anyway.
Instead they get yet another expiring contract and might still not use their MLE next offseason.

And who says the Suns aren't contending? Give us another center of at least Jake Voshkul's quality and the only team that really is better is the Lakers and maybe maybe the soft Mavs.

Trade Googs!

 

[scotsman13]

Nets - Mourning and Collins (yea morning was a great center at one time. tonight he had 20 min, 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 block. oh and collins line looks almost the same as jakes)
Hornets - Magloire ( hey i like magloire but he is 6'11 and 260 he cant guard shaq and is only pulling those numbers out of the east)
Pacers - Basically have JO at C and Harrington at PF (jo is a pw forward and the same size as amare. harrington is also a PF and is 6'9, the starting center of the pacers was foster he plyed 24 mins, foster is no where close to a good center.)
Nuggets - have Camby and Hilario. (slin do you understand that camby is 6'11 and 235 he is smaller then jake, and he spends about half of his time in the ir from being beaten up biger centers? nene is a very nice power forward? you know if we called denver i am sure they would trade nene to the suns for amare. is that what you want to do? nene is just a little bigger then amare).

so slin beside magloire where are all these big centers you guys have been crying for?

 

[slinslin]

Camby, Mourning, O'Neal, Hilario, Magloire are all ten times better than any of the Suns centers.

Who is talking about big centers? We don't even have capable small centers unless you want our starting PF to play out of his position and not have a PF anymore.

(Except for Jake who is decent but should be a backup)


When they prepare an offseason move to save salary in the next 2 seasons by trading big for small. You might think that they would look to sign a big man when he is available with the money they save.

They should have spent their MLE and worried later about saving more money. They could have still traded Outlaw for Knight and saved the money they would have spend on a new guy.

 

[Chaz]

Pretty good game for the Suns. Obivous room for improvement so that is encouraging.

Amare needs to take a lesson from Penny; make the extra pass. I know people don't think he deserves it but Jacobsen is in the game to take that shot.
He was still wide open when Marion got the rebound.

Penny made the pass to JJ earlier and he was rewarded. The more telling thing about his attitude is he passed it to the guy that just took the starting job. Penny could have shot it, he had already made a few shots.


As bad as Kobe was missing in this game it is tough not to steal a W.

4 days untill the Jazz.

 

[Joe Mama]

You seem to be having trouble grasping the situation slin. If they offered somebody their MLE it would cost them $9 million they don't have this season. As it is they are going to be losing money.

If you don't like it go support some team with a ridiculously wealthy winner who doesn't care about making money or losing it. I think it's a bit absurd to expect the organization to lose even more money.

Joe Mama

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by scotsman13
wally and joe, i agree with you both. there is no single player in nba history that i would like to see have an amare elbow placed upside his head then malone. i would love to see malone tear out his acl just before the playoffs and be left off the laker playoff roster.

That's just sick.

I wouldn't wish injury on any player, regardless of which team they played for.

 

[scotsman13]

oh you mean we should have keep a player who couldnt even play against boston? you believe we would have been better off with big jake still? do you understand that he didnt even get off the bench vs. boston?

slin you talking about power forwards and not center and in some cases used to be centers, Camby, O'Neal, Hilario, are power forwards that are playing at center. should we put amare there and googs at power forward? morning used to be one of my fav players in the nba, but if you think that 8 points and 1 board is better then 6 points and 4 board out of a center then you and me have a very diffenant view of what a center is in there for. yes i think that magloire is a good center. he hasnt been a free agent. so how do you think that we should get him?

slin remember this old saying the grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence and that is what you are doing here will all of this camby and oneal junk.

really if you can show me a way to get the suns a center that will make a true differance believe me i will i will get it in front of jc. that i promise you, but if you are going to keep talking about has been and power forwards then dont expect anyone to take what you are saying at value.

 

[scotsman13]

brian do you want me to start listing the number of players that he has hurt badly over his time in the nba? that he has done with intent? kleine, thomas, robinson, perry and garrity are just the start of the list of the ones i have seen him hurt without a care if they are ok after he has done. what i am saying should be done to him is just what he has done to others for some many years. i dont care what team he plays for it is the simple fact that he hurts people and doesnt care about it. and in that i feel that it would be a great thing for him to lose out on any hope of ever getting his dream of a championship.

 

[newfan101]

A little perspective seems in order.

The Suns have the 8th highest payroll in the league. Even if they give away Knight, they'll still be at # 8. One team ahead of them is owned by the 3rd wealthiest men in America, and he recently fired his GM because of his wasteful spending habits. Two other teams with higher payrolls, Sacramento and New Jersey, gave away big men (Keon Clark and Deke) in order to save money. LA used their MLE only because they got Gary Payton to sign for 4 million even though he's worth much more.

In addition, Tony Battie or any other center the Suns could get right now is not going to bring the Suns a championship this year. Let the salaries clear out, the young guys develop, and see where they are in two years.

Patience, folks.

 

[S_Nash]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
That's just sick.

I wouldn't wish injury on any player, regardless of which team they played for.

Really? Not even Mr. Kobe Bryant?

Who does Malone play for again...?

 

[elindholm]

Everybody and their mom knows the Suns should not have signed Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway to maximum contracts.

I hope we aren't saying the same thing about Marion in a couple of years.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
Everybody and their mom knows the Suns should not have signed Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway to maximum contracts.

I hope we aren't saying the same thing about Marion in a couple of years.

If Randy Livingston hadn't fallen on Gugliotta's knee, we wouldn't even be discussing him like this. You can fault the team for signing Penny, but you can't really fault them for signing Googs--in regards to the injury problems. They probably shouldn't have been so desperate for him, but many of us have pointed out before that Googs was playing very well until Knees landed on him. You can't forsee that. Marbury could break his leg tomorrow, and then what will some say? "It was a mistake to sign Marbury to that big extension".

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by scotsman13
what i am saying should be done to him is just what he has done to others for some many years.

There's a big difference between wishing someone would elbow Karl like he's done over the years and wishing he would tear his ACL and be out of the Playoffs. It was the latter comment I was commenting on.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by S_Marbury
Really? Not even Mr. Kobe Bryant?

I wouldn't wish any injuries on Kobe regardless of how I feel about him.

We all know the kind of havoc he can wreak when he gets injured and goes out of state to see about possible surgery...

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplin wrote, >>Marbury could break his leg tomorrow, and then what will some say? "It was a mistake to sign Marbury to that big extension".<<

Heck, I won't bother waiting for any misfortune, Marbury is not worth the money BC & Co committed to paying him. He's a great guy to have on the team but he doesn't dominate the way Duncan and Shaq do and for the money he'll be getting he'd have to do that to earn it. The idiots didn't even negotiate with him... they wanted to pay him more than Jason Kidd got so they could feel like they outsmarted NJ in the trade. Like most everyoine here I liked the trade but they got bashed for it in the media and they reacted to that. Sheesh why couldn't they waste a few bucks on a real head coach...

 

[SUNSBG]

I haven't watched the Suns play this season, but looking the boxscores it seems to me that their half court offense is really terrible. How many games until Amare makes an assist? What an offense is this in which your SF has two assists in three games? Carmelo Anthony, a rookie, have made the same or more assists in a game than Marion for three games!

Why did Zarko play only 4 minutes?

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Errntknght
Chaplin wrote, >>Marbury could break his leg tomorrow, and then what will some say? "It was a mistake to sign Marbury to that big extension".<<

Stephon Marbury wasn't a injury prone gimp like Penny when they signed him.
Googs also missed like 10 games a season when the Suns signed him and had missed half of the season when the Suns signed him.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
Everybody and their mom knows the Suns should not have signed Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway to maximum contracts.

I hope we aren't saying the same thing about Marion in a couple of years.

I have been saying it since they gave him that contract.

As far as the game goes, It was great to see Marbury, Hardaway and Johnson play well.

You don't win too many games when you're outrebounded 52-38,
and you don't win many games when you get to the line 15 times while your opponent gets on the line 39 times.

 

[dyle_ph1]

Originally posted by slinslin
It sucks for all the fans that the Colangelos seem to be afraid to spend the money to improve the team right now because THEY made the big mistakes trading for McDyess, signing Googs and Penny and now waiting until their contracts run out.

It is now like 4 years that we are doing nothing in the FA market.

And how about reaching for a none athletic shooting guard when you already have Joe Johnson and Penny Hardaway and need more beef?

They should have offered their exemption to someone this offseason. Kandi, PJ Brown... there were some players available.

Based on forbes magazine the Suns made lots of money in the past. They should now bite the bullet and pay for their past mistakes and spend some money. Googs contract would expire next season anyway.
Instead they get yet another expiring contract and might still not use their MLE next offseason.

And who says the Suns aren't contending? Give us another center of at least Jake Voshkul's quality and the only team that really is better is the Lakers and maybe maybe the soft Mavs.

Trade Googs!

With all due respect but who are you to say how the Suns should spend their money? Never forget that it is a business first and everything else is second. Yes, there are exemptions like Cuban and Paul Allen but spending millions is not as easy as you imply.

The Penny ang Googs signing was a mistake, in hindsight. Who could have predicted that though? Penny was still considered a top player in the league then, even Googs too. They just had terrible luck, that's all. But you know what, the Suns still managed to put a competitive team out there that even almost won the game against supposedly the best team in the West. They also only missed the playoffs one freakin year despite having the two excess baggages and managed to draft stoudamire and marion with later picks.

I'm sorry but some people just seem to think that since they are fans of this team that they actually own it.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by elindholm
Everybody and their mom knows the Suns should not have signed Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway to maximum contracts.

I hope we aren't saying the same thing about Marion in a couple of years.

Isn't hindsight great!

 

[tobiazz]

Originally posted by newfan101
In addition, Tony Battie or any other center the Suns could get right now is not going to bring the Suns a championship this year. Let the salaries clear out, the young guys develop, and see where they are in two years.

Patience, folks.

Waiting is never a good idea in sports. Marion, Amare, or Marbs could have career-limiting injuries like Googs and then we would have to wait another 5 years. If James becomes the next Magic/Jordan then we will have to wait again because the Cavs will be "unbeatable" like the Lakers. I would take Battie. His contract will expire in two years anyway. Even if the Suns can't win it all this year, it would be nice if they advanced the the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[jbeecham]

I'm really proud of the Suns effort. They had a chance and that's more than I thought they would have playing 5 on 8 like we always do against any top team (Lakers/Spurs/Kings/Mavs). The officiating was exactly what I was expecting it to be. I was amazed that the Suns were able to get back into the game and even take the lead. We got good performances by a lot of guys tonight (especially Jake). I hope they can learn from this game and build off of this for the rest of the season. It should at least give them some confidence that they can hang with any team in the league despite any officiating.

Here are some positive stats that jumped out at me: The Suns only had 9 turnovers. They also made all of their free throws (unfortunately they only had 15 attempts, but at least they made them count). The Suns shot 47% (8-17) from 3 which is really good considering we we're playing from behind and we're not known for being a team with good outside shooters. I don't understand why Casey got 15 minutes, yet Zarko only got 4. I would much rather have Zarko in the game because we were struggling rebounding the ball and he's more athletic. Still this was a great effort. GO SUNS!

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by SUNSBG

Why did Zarko play only 4 minutes?

good one