Game Thread: Lakers @ Suns

[arthurracoon]

Who was on the floor for the last shot?

Was Marbury there? or JJ?

1 of those two should have taken the last shot.

or maybe CJ.

 

[fordronken]

I think the best thing out of all this last second shot nonsense, is that at least we know Amare doesn't suffer from the Webber/Garnett syndrome of "I don't want the ball when it counts."

 

[matt_whitlock]

I think the best thing out of all this last second shot nonsense, is that at least we know Amare doesn't suffer from the Webber/Garnett syndrome of "I don't want the ball when it counts."

I'm not sure Garnett suffers from the Webber/Garnett syndrome either.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
I'm not sure Garnett suffers from the Webber/Garnett syndrome either.

Why, because in the playoffs last year he looked like he was "concentrating" in the fourth quarter? Ooh. Look out.

 

[dyle_ph1]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
Who was on the floor for the last shot?

Was Marbury there? or JJ?

1 of those two should have taken the last shot.

or maybe CJ.

It looked like the play that they run last year to tie the game during the suns-spurs series. Don't know if that was a wise thing to do but FJ was probably trying to catch the lakers off balance with that play.

 

[Errntknght]

dyle wrote, "The Penny ang Googs signing was a mistake, in hindsight. Who could have predicted that though? Penny was still considered a top player in the league then, even Googs too. They just had terrible luck, that's all."

In fact, a lot of people, including me, thought the signing of Penny was a mistake at the time. In my case I thought that considering his injury history, the size and duration of his contract that it was too big of a risk to take. The management was betting that he'd be healthy and play as well as before, for seven years. To me that seemed extremely unlikely. His history also included other baggage regarding his temprament.

Googs is a different story... at the time I thought signing him was a mistake because he wasn't worth the amount and he didn't fit with the team. Recall that we had Jason Kidd then and what the team needed was guys who were fleet afoot and good at finishing in the open court... crazy to tie up almost a quarter of the salary cap in a guy who isn't athletic and not worth that much to anyone. I figured it was an emotional overreation to goofing up with McDyess...

Then there was Luc... yikes!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Errntknght
In fact, a lot of people, including me, thought the signing of Penny was a mistake at the time. In my case I thought that considering his injury history, the size and duration of his contract that it was too big of a risk to take. The management was betting that he'd be healthy and play as well as before, for seven years. To me that seemed extremely unlikely. His history also included other baggage regarding his temprament.

Googs is a different story... at the time I thought signing him was a mistake because he wasn't worth the amount and he didn't fit with the team. Recall that we had Jason Kidd then and what the team needed was guys who were fleet afoot and good at finishing in the open court... crazy to tie up almost a quarter of the salary cap in a guy who isn't athletic and not worth that much to anyone. I figured it was an emotional overreation to goofing up with McDyess...

[/B]

Googs was fleet of foot at the time. He wasn't McDyess, but then nobody was. There were some that just considered him slow because he was white.

The C's took calculated risks at the time. It was prior to any real understanding of the lux tax. At that time the Suns were willing to go over the cap to put a winner on the court.

Times have changed, the rules have changed.

I find it amusing that the same people who are criticizing the Suns for their present contracts are also criticizing them for NOT entering into equally bad contracts this summer. Its a hysterical reaction to one game.

BTW, the Lakers played a very good game tonight. They got to the line like 45 times. They are hands down, the best team in the league, and we had a chance to send the game into overtime with less than 5 seconds to go.

We are one player away from being very legit championship contenders, even with the "hall of fame four" in LA. We must make sure we get the right one. Patience is the key here, not desperation. We must take the time to get the right deal. We panic and we end up with another bad contract.

BTW, anyone notice the number of DNP-CD's Jake is getting in Memphis?

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by elindholm
Where's schutd when you need him?

Sorry, I went to a show. I got hammered. I looked at the final at 4:30 this morning, and couldnt tell by that that we played badly.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan

I find it amusing that the same people who are criticizing the Suns for their present contracts are also criticizing them for NOT entering into equally bad contracts this summer. Its a hysterical reaction to one game.

We are one player away from being very legit championship contenders, even with the "hall of fame four" in LA. We must make sure we get the right one. Patience is the key here, not desperation. We must take the time to get the right deal. We panic and we end up with another bad contract.

Here, here! Some people here would have the Phoenix Suns offering their full mid-level exception to Alonzo Mourning for God's sake. That's about as risky as you can get right now.

Joe Mama

 

[matt_whitlock]

Here, here! Some people here would have the Phoenix Suns offering their full mid-level exception to Alonzo Mourning for God's sake. That's about as risky as you can get right now.

Yes, I'm glad we were patient and got so much more for our mid-level excemption. Instead of getting Alonzo Mourning, who he stays healthy will most likely be one of the top centers in the league, we got nobody. This nobody will help us a lot, as he will average 0.0 ppg, 0.0 assists per game, 0.0 rebounds per game, and probably won't average many more blocks or steals than that either. Of course, he is guarunteed not to turn the ball over, or miss shots, or be trouble in the locker room.

Not only that, but we have 14 guys on the roster right now. So good thing we cut Demarr Johnson...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Don't forget that Googs and Penny were signed in 98 and 99 when the economy was booming. Now I was only like 15 at the time, but I am pretty sure most people were spending much more freely.

Its not like the Suns were the only team that overpaid players. In fact, if you look at the other max contracts handed out by other teams, it wasn't that bad at the time.

R Wallace
Vin Baker
Damon Stoudamire.
Abdur Rahim
Spreewell
Kemp
A Walker
Jalen Rose
Brian Grant
Eddie Jones
TMac (Looks good now, but he didn't deserve the contract when he got it. The Magic just lucked out on a gamble)
Illguaskas


Those are all players from the top 29 paid according to hoopshype. However, look at how the suns were able to grow despite their bad contracts?

Would you rather be like NY, Miami, Orlando, Cleavland (pre Bron), Seattle??

I give the suns management credit for going on more limbs to lock up Shawn and Steph, DESPITE their past 2 max contracts.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Yes, I'm glad we were patient and got so much more for our mid-level excemption. Instead of getting Alonzo Mourning, who he stays healthy will most likely be one of the top centers in the league, we got nobody. This nobody will help us a lot, as he will average 0.0 ppg, 0.0 assists per game, 0.0 rebounds per game, and probably won't average many more blocks or steals than that either. Of course, he is guarunteed not to turn the ball over, or miss shots, or be trouble in the locker room.

Not only that, but we have 14 guys on the roster right now. So good thing we cut Demarr Johnson...

Well you know that if we use our MLE this year, we don't get it next year right? I think we are better off not signing a huge risk, and instead, trying to get someone next summer, when it won't cost us nearly as much since we should be under the tax.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Yes, I'm glad we were patient and got so much more for our mid-level excemption. Instead of getting Alonzo Mourning, who he stays healthy will most likely be one of the top centers in the league, we got nobody. This nobody will help us a lot, as he will average 0.0 ppg, 0.0 assists per game, 0.0 rebounds per game, and probably won't average many more blocks or steals than that either. Of course, he is guarunteed not to turn the ball over, or miss shots, or be trouble in the locker room.

Not only that, but we have 14 guys on the roster right now. So good thing we cut Demarr Johnson...

The Phoenix Suns also aren't paying nobody $4.5 million this season. Nobody isn't costing the Suns another $4.5 million in luxury tax penalties. And by the way, if Alonzo Mourning ends up sick again he and nobody will average the same numbers.

Last night against the Lakers Zarko played around minutes. What makes you think D. Johnson would even see the basketball court on this team? I guess they could pay him to $400,000 salary plus the $400,000 luxury tax penalty to sit the bench or The injured list.

Joe Mama

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Don't forget that Googs and Penny were signed in 98 and 99 when the economy was booming. Now I was only like 15 at the time, but I am pretty sure most people were spending much more freely.

Its not like the Suns were the only team that overpaid players. In fact, if you look at the other max contracts handed out by other teams, it wasn't that bad at the time.

R Wallace
Vin Baker
Damon Stoudamire.
Abdur Rahim
Spreewell
Kemp
A Walker
Jalen Rose
Brian Grant
Eddie Jones
TMac (Looks good now, but he didn't deserve the contract when he got it. The Magic just lucked out on a gamble)
Illguaskas


Those are all players from the top 29 paid according to hoopshype. However, look at how the suns were able to grow despite their bad contracts?

Would you rather be like NY, Miami, Orlando, Cleavland (pre Bron), Seattle??

I give the suns management credit for going on more limbs to lock up Shawn and Steph, DESPITE their past 2 max contracts.

If only we'd spend 100 million on a dominant superstar like Allan Houston...

 

[elindholm]

if you look at the other max contracts handed out by other teams, it wasn't that bad at the time.

R Wallace
Vin Baker
Damon Stoudamire.
Abdur Rahim
...


But if you look at that entire list, one thing jumps out at you: none of those players are on title contenders. (Antoine Walker maybe is, but that's a stretch, and it hardly counts since he was traded to Cuban.)

That's more of a key than some people realize, I think. You have to make your dollars count. One terrible contract is enough to take your team out of the elite, for a long time.

 

[elindholm]

Well you know that if we use our MLE this year, we don't get it next year right?

Teams can use the MLE every year. You might be thinking of the so-called million-dollar exception, last spent by the Suns on Corey Blount, if memory serves. That one you get only every other year.

Or maybe you just mean that the Suns wouldn't be able to afford to use the MLE two years in a row. You'd certainly be right about that.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I meant in the suns case, I should have worded that differently

 

[Errntknght]

JCSunsfan wrote, "Googs was fleet of foot at the time. He wasn't McDyess, but then nobody was. There were some that just considered him slow because he was white."

I don't know about yuo but I considered him slow afoot because he never got out a break.

"The C's took calculated risks at the time. It was prior to any real understanding of the lux tax. At that time the Suns were willing to go over the cap to put a winner on the court."

I know they took risks... but their calculations looked bad at the time and worse now. They should have thought about the kind of players they needed to go with Jason Kidd... not to mention a coach. Even if Skiles hadn't been a head case, he was still the wrong coach with his 'grind it out in the halfcourt' mindset. I'm sure they were hoping for a winner... weren't we all...

"I find it amusing that the same people who are criticizing the Suns for their present contracts are also criticizing them for NOT entering into equally bad contracts this summer. Its a hysterical reaction to one game."

I did criticize them for entering into a bad contract this summer - the bloated one they handed over to Marbury. But of course I was greatly relieved that they didn't give DerMarr Johnson a seven year max deal! Now if they could have signed him for 1% of what they gave Penny, I'd have thought it was a worthwhile risk...

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Errntknght
JCSunsfan wrote, "Googs was fleet of foot at the time. He wasn't McDyess, but then nobody was. There were some that just considered him slow because he was white."

I don't know about yuo but I considered him slow afoot because he never got out a break.

"The C's took calculated risks at the time. It was prior to any real understanding of the lux tax. At that time the Suns were willing to go over the cap to put a winner on the court."

I know they took risks... but their calculations looked bad at the time and worse now. They should have thought about the kind of players they needed to go with Jason Kidd... not to mention a coach. Even if Skiles hadn't been a head case, he was still the wrong coach with his 'grind it out in the halfcourt' mindset. I'm sure they were hoping for a winner... weren't we all...

"I find it amusing that the same people who are criticizing the Suns for their present contracts are also criticizing them for NOT entering into equally bad contracts this summer. Its a hysterical reaction to one game."

I did criticize them for entering into a bad contract this summer - the bloated one they handed over to Marbury. But of course I was greatly relieved that they didn't give DerMarr Johnson a seven year max deal! Now if they could have signed him for 1% of what they gave Penny, I'd have thought it was a worthwhile risk...

Suns management has NEVER done anything good, to you, Errntknight--except maybe draft Amare, but that's pretty much the only thing you've liked about the Suns since at least the Jason Kidd trade. Right?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Wasn't he was excited when Frank got a 3 year deal?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Wasn't he was excited when Frank got a 3 year deal?

I don't know about him but I was.....

 

[Errntknght]

I guess you could say I was excited about FJ's three year deal... but p*ssed would be more accurate.

When it comes to acquiring 'bigs' I haven't like much of what the Suns have done, going back to long before the first Kidd trade. Lets see there was Maurice Lucas, very late in his career; Charles Barkley; Paul Silas, in his sunset years; Cliff Robinson; uhhh... I had hopes for Xavier McDaniel but Cotton wouldn't play him, which always puzzled me. There were some guys that were satisfactory backups but unfortunately we didn't have the guys for them to backup. Among them, James Edwards, Tom Chambers as a center, Mark West, Danny Shayes, Joe Klein, Tim Perry. In the same vein, I liked bringing in Voskuhl - I didn't know anything about him but he was big, active and cheap so worth a look. I'm happy they re-signed him, too, though it made me ill to see the way FJ utilized him last year. (I'm glad Frank is forced to rely on him now, otherwise I'd expect more of the same.) I thought drafting Tsakalidis was a good gamble with a #25 pick. Alton Ford, for that matter with a #52. Oh, I liked Oliver Miller both times. I thought getting a big man coach was a good idea - long before they broke down and did it.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
Yes, I'm glad we were patient and got so much more for our mid-level excemption. Instead of getting Alonzo Mourning, who he stays healthy will most likely be one of the top centers in the league, we got nobody. This nobody will help us a lot, as he will average 0.0 ppg, 0.0 assists per game, 0.0 rebounds per game, and probably won't average many more blocks or steals than that either. Of course, he is guarunteed not to turn the ball over, or miss shots, or be trouble in the locker room.

Not only that, but we have 14 guys on the roster right now. So good thing we cut Demarr Johnson...

yea you are right matt we should have given morning the full MLE. so what if it would have cost us between 9 and 10 million to get him. just think of the value we would have gotten out of him. in his last game he scored 8 points and 1 rebound in 20 min. wow little jake got better then that in his last game and it only cost the suns around 5 million for 3 years. wow what a value we would have gotten out of morning.

as far as demarr, dont you think it tells you something if no one else has signed him. is it just possible that he wasnt as good as you think he is? yes the suns have keep 14 players on the roster. everyone of them had set contracts.