Game thread Phoenix vs. Utah

[cheng]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
You're absolutely right. See what Sloan is doing with very little talent? See what FJ is doing with a lot of talent?

How about Houston? They sure look like a playoff team under Van Gundy.

 

[NDSunsfan]

he got SCHOOLED by a couple of point guards that couldn't even make the suns roster let alone start for them.

that is true. there were a couple of times stephon was humiliated by a guy i had never even heard of. what's up with that? just another sign that for whatever reason, the players aren't all that into it.....


Brad

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Originally posted by frdbtr
Guys, the Jazz SUCK!!

You are dead wrong with this statement. They sure looked pretty good last night. I do not care who plays for them, and that they do not have any legitimate stars. They also do not have any shooters on that team. They run the ball when they can, and when it breaks down to the half court they run set plays, execute properly and score points on lay-ups, pick & rolls.
If Phoenix knew how to run a proper zone defense, neither team would have been scoring last night. Instead the Jazz looked as if they didn't miss a beat with Stockton & Malone gone. It was the same plays I have been watching the Jazz execute for the last ten years (with the same result=win).

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the Jazz is winning because they have a system. You can take people out and put people in, and they still look good because their game is based on a system, not on any particular individual.

Stefan

 

[elindholm]

You can take people out and put people in, and they still look good because their game is based on a system, not on any particular individual.

In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts -- the Jazz team makes each other better. Which is the exact opposite of what happens with the Suns.

 

[SirStefan32]

Exactly.

 

[matt_whitlock]

I'm curious. Seriously, what is it that so many people like about Joe Johnson? Is it his 29% shooting? Is it his 2.5 assists in 36 minutes per game? I'm just trying to understand why you guys love him so much.

Hey, it our 1-3 start makes perfect sense to me. Last year we were below .500 when Joe was a starter too. Why should this year be any different?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
I'm curious. Seriously, what is it that so many people like about Joe Johnson? Is it his 29% shooting? Is it his 2.5 assists in 36 minutes per game? I'm just trying to understand why you guys love him so much.

Hey, it our 1-3 start makes perfect sense to me. Last year we were below .500 when Joe was a starter too. Why should this year be any different?

Well we all know why you don't like him trh. He steals minutes from your boy.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
I'm curious. Seriously, what is it that so many people like about Joe Johnson? Is it his 29% shooting? Is it his 2.5 assists in 36 minutes per game? I'm just trying to understand why you guys love him so much.

Hey, it our 1-3 start makes perfect sense to me. Last year we were below .500 when Joe was a starter too. Why should this year be any different?

At least he plays defense.

Joe Mama

 

[matt_whitlock]

Man, it's nothing personal, I was really just asking a question. What is it that everybody sees in Joe Johnson that they love? Maybe I do not have the basketball intelect to realize it, and a lot of people here do. It's just a question..

 

[elindholm]

I don't love Joe Johnson. He is a good athlete with many of the tools in place for an effective all-around game. He is fairly quick and strong, and he has some decent moves, satisfactory court vision, a concept of how to play defense, and a mechancially sound jump shot. What he doesn't have is confidence or consistency. Many people here, including me, believe that those are easier to acquire than the physical talents.

As you might know, Joe Johnson competes for playing time with Penny Hardaway. Hardaway has a confident court presence, he understands the rhythm of the game, and he is probably the Suns' best all-around shooter. On the other hand, he has no moves anymore (except in the post, where Suns guards are not permitted to establish position), he is careless with the ball, and he can't defend a chair. His strengths are probably comparable to Johnson's, but his weaknesses, by comparison, can't be fixed.

In other words: Johnson might get better, but Hardaway won't. That's the main reason he is generally preferred here.

 

[Errntknght]

My, my... a thread with no one complaining that I'm unkind to FJ...

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by Dr. Dumas
You are dead wrong with this statement. They sure looked pretty good last night. I do not care who plays for them, and that they do not have any legitimate stars. They also do not have any shooters on that team. They run the ball when they can, and when it breaks down to the half court they run set plays, execute properly and score points on lay-ups, pick & rolls.
If Phoenix knew how to run a proper zone defense, neither team would have been scoring last night. Instead the Jazz looked as if they didn't miss a beat with Stockton & Malone gone. It was the same plays I have been watching the Jazz execute for the last ten years (with the same result=win).

I will agree that the Jazz are playing well because they are following Jerry Sloan's system but they will not make the playoffs. They will be lucky to win 25 games this year. None of thier starting 5 would start for Phoenix and only 1 player on that team wuold make Phoenix's roster (Andre Kirelinko). Aren't we supposed to make the playoffs this year? Phoenix played terrible and deserved to lose but make no mistake about it. The Jazz Suck.

 

[elindholm]

None of thier starting 5 would start for Phoenix and only 1 player on that team wuold make Phoenix's roster (Andre Kirelinko).

Ostertag is better than any center on the Suns' roster, especially when he is as motivated as he is now. And you'd better believe Matt Harpring would make the team. For that matter, both of their point guards are better than Barbosa right now.

 

[tommcnabb]

Originally posted by elindholm
I don't love Joe Johnson. He is a good athlete with many of the tools in place for an effective all-around game. He is fairly quick and strong, and he has some decent moves, satisfactory court vision, a concept of how to play defense, and a mechancially sound jump shot. What he doesn't have is confidence or consistency. Many people here, including me, believe that those are easier to acquire than the physical talents.

As you might know, Joe Johnson competes for playing time with Penny Hardaway. Hardaway has a confident court presence, he understands the rhythm of the game, and he is probably the Suns' best all-around shooter. On the other hand, he has no moves anymore (except in the post, where Suns guards are not permitted to establish position), he is careless with the ball, and he can't defend a chair. His strengths are probably comparable to Johnson's, but his weaknesses, by comparison, can't be fixed.

In other words: Johnson might get better, but Hardaway won't. That's the main reason he is generally preferred here.

Good post. Put Hardaways confidence in Joe Johnson and we'd have a hell of a player. I don't doubt for a minute his potential to put up 16, 6, and 5. However, potential doesn't win games, execution of the potential does.

But, I haven't given up on him yet.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by elindholm
None of thier starting 5 would start for Phoenix and only 1 player on that team wuold make Phoenix's roster (Andre Kirelinko).

Ostertag is better than any center on the Suns' roster, especially when he is as motivated as he is now. And you'd better believe Matt Harpring would make the team. For that matter, both of their point guards are better than Barbosa right now.

Well, if Ostertag is better then any center on the suns then why don't they trade for him? I live in Utah and have watched the Jazz desperately try to get rid of him since day one. He flashes good play for a couple of games just to tease you, and then plays like Krap the rest of the time. I like Matt Harpring but he plays the 3 position and we already are loaded with 3's. that is why Kirelinko is the only player that I mentioned could make the suns roster.

 

[SweetD]

I like Collins he is big an is some what mobil. He could have come cheep and would have been a nice fit.

 

[elindholm]

Well, if Ostertag is better then any center on the suns then why don't they trade for him?

Because he makes $8.7 million this year. And besides, the Jazz don't want to trade him anymore, because of his expiring contract.

I like Matt Harpring but he plays the 3 position and we already are loaded with 3's.

The Suns are not "loaded" with SFs. They have Marion and some guards who play out of position there. Harpring can also play SG and is better than either Johnson or Hardaway. For that matter, he would make a better "small" PF than any of the Suns' current options for their small lineups.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm

I like Matt Harpring but he plays the 3 position and we already are loaded with 3's.

The Suns are not "loaded" with SFs. They have Marion and some guards who play out of position there. Harpring can also play SG and is better than either Johnson or Hardaway. For that matter, he would make a better "small" PF than any of the Suns' current options for their small lineups.

I thought Zarko was a 3.

 

[elindholm]

I thought Zarko was a 3.

While it's true that the coaching staff has impressed me by using Cabarkapa at small forward occasionally, he will see more time at PF and C for the Suns.

Besides, if we're talking about today, Harpring is a better player. That may change, but for now, Harpring would not lose minutes to Cabarkapa.

 

[matt_whitlock]

In other words: Johnson might get better, but Hardaway won't. That's the main reason he is generally preferred here.

Fine, that makes sense. It's just that we know we can win with Penny Hardaway as a starter. He complements Marbury's drive-and-kick mentality, and looks to get Marion and Amare involved early. You'd have to admit that he's probably the Suns best all-around shooter, and that he is better at getting Shawn and Amare into the flow of the game. The way I see it, I hope Joe Johnson can get his shot to fall and really get to contribute for this team. I want the Suns to win, and I don't like seeing Joe struggle because I know he works hard on his jump shot. As a basketball player myself, I know how it feels to tear it up in practice and then go and lay an egg in the real game situation. It's not fun, and I wouldn't wish that on JJ. However, Marion is more important as a scorer than JJ is for this team, and whether JJ gets hot or not, if Marion keeps playing the way he has, we're in trouble.

Plus, Penny has never played well in a reserve role. He has okay games here and there, but he plays his best as a starter. Joe Johnson can play defense whether he's a starter or not. But winning 1 out of every 4 games isn't going to get us into the playoffs, and either is 30% shooting from our SHOOTING guard. Especially when he's shooting up around 14 times a game.

I just want to win.

 

[slinslin]

Penny is also one of the worst defenders on the entire Suns teams and that includes Casey Jacobsen.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Hey! Casey Jacobsen is the best defender ever! EVER!

Move over Kobe, MJ, Bruce Bowen!

 

[matt_whitlock]

Penny is also one of the worst defenders on the entire Suns teams and that includes Casey Jacobsen.

Whatever, if it wins games, might as well do it.

Who would you say the Suns worst shooter is? I mean percentage-wise.