Game Thread: Preseason, Warriors @ Suns

[Mainstreet]

It appeared the Suns play down the stretch improved after the insertion of Burke. He just seemed to stabilize the frontline and provided a presence that had been missing earlier in the game. I just wish the Suns could count on him to do it on a nightly basis (doubtful). He is a pleasant surprise thus far.

However, IMO, the Suns still need to pick up a quality 4/5 player to feed inside. Maybe the Suns hope to do it on the cheap and are watching the waiver wire. I really like Diaw's solid play. He can just about play all five positions. James Jones was an absolute steal.

I think the long term solution for the 4/5 position while Amare is out (hopefully he will be back this year), is to use the trade exception and a pick to do a deal with a team with an abundance of talent at that position.

Perhaps a poor analogy is Cleveland picking up Gooden to replace Boozer last year.

 

[mribnik]

Anybody see Steven Hunters line from tonight?

Granted it was the last pre-season game, but in 35 minutes he had 24 points, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks. Actually, his 6-8 from the FT were the most surprising.

 

[George O'Brien]

Definitely looked like fatigue. The team is just not in Suns condition yet and typically tired legs lead to poor shooting and slow defensive rotations. I think some of the slopply passing was also due to fatigue.

The most encouraging thing about the game was the Suns outrebounding the Warriors 55-38. Granted Foyle wasn't playing, but everyone hit the boards.

Boris had a good game except for his 4 turnovers and a couple of missed layups. He needs to work on finishing stronger. But he made some really pretty moves, a remarkable twisting jumper, and grabbed 8 rebounds and had 2 blocks in 31 minutes. Also, he went 6 of 7 from the line. 14 points

They have several days to get ready for Dallas on Tuesday. I'm not sure they're ready, but they need to do well early because they have so many road games later on.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It was Kevin Harlan, not Marv Albert. Those two always do the games together. I actually like those two though. They sure beat the hell out of the announcers that do the ESPN and ABC games.

BTW, I think the most impressive thing about tonight's game was the rebounding. We out rebounded them by 17 tonight.

Agree about Doug and Kevin. By far the best combination out of the national media.

 

[panfolk]

Definitely looked like fatigue. The team is just not in Suns condition yet and typically tired legs lead to poor shooting and slow defensive rotations. I think some of the slopply passing was also due to fatigue.

The most encouraging thing about the game was the Suns outrebounding the Warriors 55-38. Granted Foyle wasn't playing, but everyone hit the boards.

Boris had a good game except for his 4 turnovers and a couple of missed layups. He needs to work on finishing stronger. But he made some really pretty moves, a remarkable twisting jumper, and grabbed 8 rebounds and had 2 blocks in 31 minutes. Also, he went 6 of 7 from the line. 14 points

They have several days to get ready for Dallas on Tuesday. I'm not sure they're ready, but they need to do well early because they have so many road games later on.

Collins thought KT's abominable shooting was due to tired legs. I hope he can get in Suns condition.

Diaw may very well be our PF for now. Tonight's outing made that a little less scary proposition. I could care less if he ever gets an outside shot down I'd just like to see him play with some authoritah.

 

[panfolk]

By the way, has anyone heard why Grant didn't play?

Also Burke's stat line doesn't look right I swear. It really seemed like he played more than 7 minutes and I thought he had a block too.

 

[Errntknght]

Well, the Suns finally unveiled the pick & pop. I figured from a few things that were quoted that they had it working well and were just keeping it under wraps. Nash never came close to getting the ball to KT and GS isn't known as that good of a defensive team. I've never thought the play would be a prime offensive weapon but I didn't expect it to look this weak. I think KT is going to have to move toward the basket - as long as he only slides away the defense has only one angle to cut off... in other words turn it into a pick & roll.

Diaw might have better luck because he could use his height to make the pass. I'd rather see he and KT work a two man game just below the knuckle like the one I described Amare and KT operating a few weeks back. That's a good spot for Diaw to set up anyway - and he did most of the time in this last game. Against the Sonics he was setting up further out on the wing so he had to take a couple of dribbles before he could do anything. A good little adjustment.

 

[George O'Brien]

Well, the Suns finally unveiled the pick & pop. I figured from a few things that were quoted that they had it working well and were just keeping it under wraps. Nash never came close to getting the ball to KT and GS isn't known as that good of a defensive team. I've never thought the play would be a prime offensive weapon but I didn't expect it to look this weak. I think KT is going to have to move toward the basket - as long as he only slides away the defense has only one angle to cut off... in other words turn it into a pick & roll.

Diaw might have better luck because he could use his height to make the pass. I'd rather see he and KT work a two man game just below the knuckle like the one I described Amare and KT operating a few weeks back. That's a good spot for Diaw to set up anyway - and he did most of the time in this last game. Against the Sonics he was setting up further out on the wing so he had to take a couple of dribbles before he could do anything. A good little adjustment.

The Suns had a lot of open looks and just weren't hitting their shots and that includes KT.

I wasn't clear on what happened but it looked like they ran Diaw on the pick and roll with Nash. He needs to do less of a finese move on closing, but he seems capable of attacking the basket.

 

[Yuma]

By the way, has anyone heard why Grant didn't play?

Also Burke's stat line doesn't look right I swear. It really seemed like he played more than 7 minutes and I thought he had a block too.

Grant and KT have been switching minutes, per se. They have wanted to keep the play on Grant's knees light going into the season. Grant's arguably better than KT offensivly right now. Grant is hitting his open looks. KT has had his minutes looking authoritative on defense, though.

 

[sunsfn]

I do not think that Kurt Thomas is in suns condition, and maybe some others.

But, Last night was the 2nd game in two nights also.

 

[haverford]

KT has great hands, it would appear from this game, and we will see rebounding such as we have not seen in a Suns uniform in a long time. As people have been saying on this board, he's a position rebounder rather than a hustler and or a leaper. But man, do I worry about the lack of a really long shot blocker. I realize this is the new "Euro" NBA, but we are just short along the front line....

 

[George O'Brien]

The Euros tend to have centers planted right under the basket in the zone. The NBA defensive three second rule means the classic lead footed goalie type center is not really practical in the NBA unless he's 7'5".

 

[Errntknght]

This game was encouraging in that our Sunnies got lots of rebounds and the subs held strong when GS went with their starters to try and pull out a win. They got the rebounds by everyone staying back to hit the boards instead of leaking out on the break but I don't mind the strategy if it works this well.

What I did find painful in this game is that Marion, Bell and Jones were so static without the ball. Against the Sonics they weren't great but the did move some, which was encouraging, but now it seems it was just a fluke. Thank goodness for Diaw - he seems to be the only one that grasps the concept of cutting to the basket without the ball.
Okay, Nash did it once - on a nice give and go with Boris. Of course, it ought to be the guys other than our best passers that predominate in cutting. Or running the baseline, of which there was none in this game.

The number of off ball screens was way down from the Sonics game, too, but there was somewhat of an excuse for that as Grant didn't play. Burke seemed to have it in mind a couple of times but he didn't ever get it done.

This was one of those games where I couldn't help but wonder exactly what it is the coaches have the guys practicing on offense.

 

[George O'Brien]

It is hard for me to evaluate their play when only seeing one preseason game. As I said earlier, they looked tired and did not move the ball like they did in earlier games.

Oct 14 in Seattle. Won 114-113 with 28 assists. Barbosa started an had 7 assists

Oct 15 at home against Clippers. Lost 87-90. 27 Assists. Nash had 9, Jones 4, House 4, and Diaw 3.

Oct 17 at Utah. Won 106-95. 23 Assists. Nash had 8, Thomas 5, and Bell 4.

Oct 19 at GS. Lost 96-108. 26 Assists. Nash 10, Diaw 6, Bell 4.

Oct 21 home against Seattle. Won 113-81. 28 Assists. Nash 7, Diaw 8, Bell 4, Barbosa 4.

Oct 23 in Sacramento, beat Kings 100-88. 29 assists. Nash 9, Diaw 4, Barbosa 4

Oct 26 in New Mexico, beat Kings 112-102. 34 assists. Nash 12, Diaw 4, Burke 4, Bell 3.

Oct 27 at home, beat Kings 97-92. 21 assists. Nash 9, Diaw 4, Bell 3.

The Suns averaged 27 assists over preseason. San Antonio was second with only 22.66 assists per game. Sacramento had only 20.5. This suggests the Suns have generally had good ball movement and that perhaps the second GS game was not reflective of the progress they've made. I hope so, because the Suns will need really good ball movement to make up for not having Amare.

 

[Joe Mama]

The Suns averaged 27 assists over preseason. San Antonio was second with only 22.66 assists per game. Sacramento had only 20.5. This suggests the Suns have generally had good ball movement and that perhaps the second GS game was not reflective of the progress they've made. I hope so, because the Suns will need really good ball movement to make up for not having Amare.

It also suggests that the Phoenix Suns lack players who create scoring opportunities for themselves. I believe these are the two main reasons the Suns are averaging so many assists in the preseason.

Joe Mama

 

[Errntknght]

Joe, "It also suggests that the Phoenix Suns lack players who create scoring opportunities for themselves."

I was going to say this a while back but it's not quite accurate... if I have the story straight - if you pass to a guy who shoots and makes a jumpshot without dribbling then you get an assist but if he dribbles at all before he shoots a jumpshot then you don't get an assist whether the dribbling improved the shot attempt or not.

We've heard several quotes this year that D'Antoni tells the players that if they're open he wants them to put the shot up without hesitation. The players appear to be following his dictates and this leads to not screwing around with useless dribbles and thus maximizes the number of assists that are registered. I think that's smart coaching because you don't want guys wondering whether they should take a shot while they're doing it or wondering if they should have shot while they're making a pass.

Of course, it is true that the team does not have a lot of guys that can create good shots for themselves the way Joe Johnson could. Nash is undoubtedly the best at it and he doesn't like to do it unless it's necessary. Diaw is the second best but he is not a good finisher at this point. Barbosa is a pretty distant third and I've never seen him succeed when the defense was focussed on him so he's not a 'go to' guy in the clutch. Now I'd say Bell is at about the same level as Leandro - it works when the defense isn't expecting it.


George, "The Suns averaged 27 assists over preseason. San Antonio was second with only 22.66 assists per game. Sacramento had only 20.5. This suggests the Suns have generally had good ball movement and that perhaps the second GS game was not reflective of the progress they've made. I hope so, because the Suns will need really good ball movement to make up for not having Amare."

I hadn't noticed the number of assists were down so much for the last game but if they'd gotten thirty assists because they were knocking down jumpers all over the place my reaction to the game would have been the same - they were not using teamwork to get shots in close.

To me the key stats for this team are points in the paint and free throw attempt differential. (Not that they compete with actually watching the games.)

 

[George O'Brien]

The backdoor play from Diaw to Nash was the first time I remember seeing this done by the Suns. Right now Diaw is getting turnovers from guys who aren't expecting the ball and because he tries to make interior passes, but he gives the Suns an inside guy who can distribute from the high post. Now the rest of the players need to understand what that means.