Garnett rumors?

[thegrahamcrackr]

I found this on a RealGM board while I was trying to catch up from being out of town. It is a pretty interesting read, sorry if it was posted earlier.

It's time the truth of what has been going on behind the scenes in the NBA was revealed. I have a friend who is relatively high up in the Staples Center who has close connections to the Lakers and the NBA. Last year if you recall my thread, "Shaq to Miami is a done deal" which few believed at the time. Believe me or don't, it makes no difference. There is a bidding war going on for Kevin Garnett.

1. After the last season, Garnett reached his breaking point. Kevin Garnett has demanded one of two things in Minnesota: A team that can contend for the forseeable future with no more major turnover, or he wants out. After seeing how Shaq was able to dictate where and with who he would play when he was traded and his success that followed, Garnett believes he can do something similar. This is the reason you see teams making strange moves, like the Lakers drafting Bynum and the Knicks trading for Q-Rich. They are stocking on talent to try to deal for Garnett. This is the main reason why the rumor mill has been quiet, the entire league is waiting to see what happens with Garnett.

2. After the past season, Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor was fed up with pouring money into a franchise that has had to nothing but bad luck. First the Joe Smith fiasco, and now the Cassell/Sprewell ordeal. After a decade of trying to get somewhere with Garnett, the cap restraints and lack of roster manueverability has led him to believe that it's time to start over while Garnett can still fetch something decent in return as he is in his prime. He also wants to make a move for the Vikings and is looking to save money where he can for his bid/running of the team.

3. Garnett's initial list of teams he would be content with was: Cleveland, New York, Lakers, Chicago, Philadelphia. Minnesota contacted these teams first so people assumed this was his list. Garnett is appreciative of the Wolves organization and thus never made his demands public, because he wants to give the Wolves a chance to either fix the situation, or get a good deal for him. The majority of the teams are in the East, because the Wolves would rather have Garnett there for obvious reasons. Garnett's teams all have one major thing in common: They are not in a winning situation and he would not necessarily be percieved as going to a ready-made "easy" ring.

Minnesota is demanding: Young talent, draft picks, and cap flexibility. Along with Garnett, whichever team takes him has to take either Hudson, Szczerbiak, or both of them as well because of their contracts.

Cleveland: They are not banking on Garnett because they don't necessarily have the assets to get a deal done. The players they get in free agency could however be the core of a package for him. Don't know much about what's going on here.

New York: Garnett would love to play with Marbury again in the bright lights of NY. New York has some talent and expiring deals(Crawford, Frye, Thomas etc.) and could retain some solid players around Marbury and Garnett. Word has it that Minnesota tried to counter by offering a deal for Marbury but Isiah felt they had invested too much into him to give him away for what the Wolves were offering(Expiring deals, and/or supposedly Wally). Talks have cooled here somewhat according to my friend because of the counter proposals.

Chicago: Garnett went to high school here and likes the talent. Minnesota supposedly is demanding one of their big men(Curry or Chandler re-signed), Deng or Niocini, and one of their guards(Hinrich or Gordon) along with some combination of picks. Chicago would love to get Garnett like everyone else, but Garnett is 29 and they are hedging on whether they want to give up so much young talent for him.

Philadelphia. Iverson and a big market. Philly has some interesting peices(Dalembert and Iggy) but I don't know much about what has been discussed with them.

Lakers: I know the most abou these discussions because my friend is most closely connected here. They are a West team but Garnett is pushing heavily for them along with NY and Chicago because he and Kobe want to play with each other(They like each others work ethic and passion for basketball, and Kobe feels KG is one of the few superstars that doesn't resent him because of how his career has gone). Wolves won't take Brian Grants contract. Lakers core package consists of Odom, Bynum, roleplayers with expiring deals(Mihm, George, Atkins etc.) and multiple future draft picks. They will not part with Butler if they have to give up Odom because many feel Butler is on the cusp of being an All-Star and has a good friendship and chemistry with Kobe. They also think Kobe, Butler, KG is a better fit than having Odom and KG on the same team. Again, problem is LA is in the West and McHale does not want to deal with LA, but supposedly the Lakers have talked with Minnesota's GM Stack directly. Word is Taylor overrode McHale because he just wants a good deal while making Garnett happy(Taylor and KG think highly of each other).

Recently, the Nets and Indiana(I think Bird and McHale's connection makes this a real possibility) have made pushes. Indiana is offering JO, Granger, some of their bigger deals to even salaries(Croshere, Bender etc.) and picks. Jersey is supposedly offering BOTH Jefferson and Carter, but people are not sure how Carter would respond to a situation where he might not be able to win in Minnesota without Garnett. I heard some things about Boston(Same situation as Chicago, contend with Pierce and Garnett but they would have to give up tons of their young talent) and Orlando(Minny demanded Dwight as the core of a package, Orlando said no.) but I don't think talks are serious there. Teams are supposedly getting impatient and while they have been quiet on this issue(to keep the hype down and negotiate in peace and good faith) info could start leaking soon with the draft over and FA beginning. I'm not sure any of the deals outside of the LA one are 100% accurate. Believe me or don't but the offseason is going to be CRAZY.

 

[elindholm]

Word has it that Minnesota tried to counter by offering a deal for Marbury but Isiah felt they had invested too much into him to give him away for what the Wolves were offering(Expiring deals, and/or supposedly Wally).

Heh.

Now let's be honest -- is any of those packages more attractive than one starting with Marion and Richardson?

Obviously it can't happen now, but I think it might have been a possibility.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I looked at the Suns board over there, and most of the packages they put together for KG were:

KG/Wally

For

Marion/JJ in a S&T/Picks


Some other people came up with

KG

For

Marion/Barbosa/Jackson/picks



Just some stuff to get through a slow summer. To bad Q is gone or we could have revisited Eric's package

 

[Ryanwb]

we could have revisited Eric's package

 

[Cheesebeef]

if Garnett somehow ends up ont he Lakers, I will vomit.

 

[elindholm]

KG/Wally

For

Marion/JJ in a S&T/Picks

If Garnett gets moved, I don't see him being packaged with Szczerbiak, unless Szczerbiak is immediately moved to a third team. I know the rumor has them possibly getting traded together, but the reputation of bad blood between them will be enough to scare most teams off, I think.

KG

For

Marion/Barbosa/Jackson/picks

You can tell that one came from a Suns fan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

would any of you guys do a Garnett for Marion/JJ?

STARTERS:

PG - Steve Nash
SG - Raja Bell
SF - Kevin Garnett
PF - Amare Stoudemire
C - Kurt Thomas

Jimmy Jackson
Hot Garbage (i.e. the rest of the bench)

Good lord - that team could be frightening. Although - that being said - is there any way we could convince JJ to make a sign and trade with Minny?

 

[elindholm]

would any of you guys do a Garnett for Marion/JJ?

I was just thinking that. Actually it would be better for the Suns if Hudson were included. Even though he's overpaid (about $5.5 million this coming season, as best as I can figure from Bender's site) and his contract goes on forever, he's a solid player when healthy and the Suns would be starved for anything resembling depth.

So you'd have

C - Thomas/Stoudemire/Voskuhl
PF - Stoudemire/Garnett
SF - Garnett/Jackson/Thompson?
SG - Bell/Jackson/Hudson
PG - Nash/Hudson/Barbosa

I have to say, I don't think I would pull the trigger. Maybe it's because I'm not that impressed with Bell, but the backcourt looks really thin to me. Also, Garnett's offensive game, being more mid-range oriented than Marion's, wouldn't give Thomas as much room to operate. Overall I don't see it as a great fit.

But if, for some bizarre reason, Johnson refuses to sign an extension in Phoenix and announces that Minnesota is one of the teams he'd accept a sign-and-trade to, then sure, go for it.

 

[Chaplin]

would any of you guys do a Garnett for Marion/JJ?

I was just thinking that. Actually it would be better for the Suns if Hudson were included. Even though he's overpaid (about $5.5 million this coming season, as best as I can figure from Bender's site) and his contract goes on forever, he's a solid player when healthy and the Suns would be starved for anything resembling depth.

So you'd have

C - Thomas/Stoudemire/Voskuhl
PF - Stoudemire/Garnett
SF - Garnett/Jackson/Thompson?
SG - Bell/Jackson/Hudson
PG - Nash/Hudson/Barbosa

I have to say, I don't think I would pull the trigger. Maybe it's because I'm not that impressed with Bell, but the backcourt looks really thin to me. Also, Garnett's offensive game, being more mid-range oriented than Marion's, wouldn't give Thomas as much room to operate. Overall I don't see it as a great fit.

But if, for some bizarre reason, Johnson refuses to sign an extension in Phoenix and announces that Minnesota is one of the teams he'd accept a sign-and-trade to, then sure, go for it.

I'm sure some decent guard might look at that lineup and go, "Hmm, I'm getting a little old, would like a championship and I can certainly play the 2, so, why not? Quick, get me my agent!" Agent: "Yes, Mr. Payton?"

 

[Cheesebeef]

actually - if (in a world where JJ would agree to go to Minny) and Hudson was thrown in, I'd do the deal in a heartbeat.

Hell - I'd plop Kurt Thomas' ass on the bench and go with this lineup:

STARTERS:
Nash
JJ2
Bell
Amare
Garnett

Bench:
Hudson
Thomas

those two guys on the bench alone would be pretty solid (a hell of a lot better than what we had last year).

In addition to that, with Bell, Amare and Garnett up front, they would be a dynamite defensive team that could make up for the dribble penetration given up by Nash.

On offense, I'd have to believe that have two playmakers - two of th eebst int he game and a dominant offensive force in Stoudemire would just make us unguardable. We'd still have 3 three point shooters around the perimeter, but we'd have two of the three best low post players (one of which is already arguably the NBA best passing big man).

All that being said - it's a complete pipe-dream. It would also considerably lower our window as Garnett ain't a spring chicken anymore - but then again - with all thsoe guys in their primes, they could probably win the next 3 or 4 titles. Again - a pipe dream.

 

[JS22]

would any of you guys do a Garnett for Marion/JJ?

STARTERS:

PG - Steve Nash
SG - Raja Bell
SF - Kevin Garnett
PF - Amare Stoudemire
C - Kurt Thomas

Jimmy Jackson
Hot Garbage (i.e. the rest of the bench)

Good lord - that team could be frightening. Although - that being said - is there any way we could convince JJ to make a sign and trade with Minny?

Sorry, but the team would be MUCH worse IMO. No bench, and I cant possibly see KG and Amare getting along for too long.

 

[Chaplin]

Sorry, but the team would be MUCH worse IMO. No bench, and I cant possibly see KG and Amare getting along for too long.

I seriously don't see that as much as a problem. There is no bench, true, but then again, we won 62 games last year without a bench, and with Garnett and Amare in the front line, do you think we'd have a better chance against the Spurs? You bet your ass.

 

[George O'Brien]

Am I the only person who thinks that KG only goes in a deal that includes another big, ideally a young one?

There are several significant differences between KG's situation and Shaq's with the Lakers.

1. Shaq makes a heck of lot more money.
2. Shaq's contract is scheduled to expire next season, KG has much longer to go.
3. Shaq has a long history of injuries and conditioning problems
4. The Lakers had another superstar who didn't get along with Shaq.

Inspite of all these reasons to trade Shaq, the Lakers went from the finals to the lottery in one year. It is simply not feasible for the Wolves to get enough back to make a deal worthwhile.

 

[hcsilla]

Interesting thread.

I really like Ben Gordon but wouldn't be a Gordon, Curry (S&T), Davis for KG, Olowokandi deal a great one for CHI?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Am I the only person who thinks that KG only goes in a deal that includes another big, ideally a young one?

There are several significant differences between KG's situation and Shaq's with the Lakers.

1. Shaq makes a heck of lot more money.
2. Shaq's contract is scheduled to expire next season, KG has much longer to go.
3. Shaq has a long history of injuries and conditioning problems
4. The Lakers had another superstar who didn't get along with Shaq.

Inspite of all these reasons to trade Shaq, the Lakers went from the finals to the lottery in one year. It is simply not feasible for the Wolves to get enough back to make a deal worthwhile.

The only things that make sense will never get done:

KG for

Amare (no way)
Ming (Houston might listen)
Gooden plus something
Jermaine ONeal and something else

 

[Cheesebeef]

I seriously don't see that as much as a problem. There is no bench, true, but then again, we won 62 games last year without a bench, and with Garnett and Amare in the front line, do you think we'd have a better chance against the Spurs? You bet your ass.

totally agree. Amare wants to win - Garnett isn't a guy who demands the ball and to be honest has always been more of a Scottie Pippen All-Star than a Jordanite. He just doesn't have IT - he's got enough to lead a team to 50 wins and once surrounded by copious amounts of talent, can eek into the Conference Finals, but I've always though Garnett was a bit overrated. Att his point in his career, I think he'd be man enough to defer to the greatness that is Amare, play his ass off on D - be our shutdown answer to Tim Duncan and provide rebounding, leadership and defense - not to mention playmaking.

Sorry - but to say a team that had a thressome of Garnett/Nash and Amare - basically the last three MVPs(yes - I'm already giving Amare the MVP for next year) wouldn't be good is foolish. That team would CRUSH everyone the more I think about it - but - it will never happen.

 

[cly2tw]

The best scenario for Garnett, and every parties involved, is to go to NY for reunion with Marbury, if Minny is willing to go through rebuilding using picks and cap route. As someone put in there, KG, Szb., Hudson for Penny, TThomas, Crawford, Sweetney, Robinson, Lee, two future unprotected picks, one protected, and cash.

NY'd have,

Marbury/Q/Szb/KG/Frye/Hudson/Ariza/Rose/Williams plus the players they sign for MLE and LLE. They will compete right away.

 

[playstation]

...oh, i'm sorry, i think i opened up the door to fantasy-land by mistake. i'll just be on my way...

 

[SirStefan32]

KG and Stoudemire on the same team? Two biggest ego-maniacs in the NBA.... I don't think so.

 

[jandaman]

KG and Amare on the same team?

Looks good on paper, especially with Nash feeding them the ball... but that would leave the suns very vulnerable when an injury happens or foul trouble.


KG going to New York is a good idea for both NY and Min.

Min needs to go rebuild with expiring contracts and draft picks, Knicks become playoff bound straight away. I wont be surprise if that deal actually falls through.

 

[elindholm]

The only things that make sense will never get done:

KG for

Amare (no way)
Ming (Houston might listen)
Gooden plus something
Jermaine ONeal and something else

"Gooden plus something," yes maybe, if that "something" is LeBron James. Otherwise no chance.

I agree that, if Garnett is traded, it will be for a package that doesn't "make sense." The problems with Garnett from a trade standpoint are that his salary is enormous, his game seems a little soft, and he has a reputation for being a difficult teammate. Of course he is an amazing player, but those little black marks mean that he's not going to get equal talent in a trade, and certainly not a younger star big man.

I think we all know that, even if the salaries were equal, the Suns wouldn't even consider a Garnett/Stoudemire trade. Other teams with superstars-in-waiting would have the same reaction. I could imagine a package involving a second-tier big like Dalembert or Magloire, but I don't see Garnett as an Iverson teammate and I certainly don't see him as a Hornet.

It would be nauseating, but the Lakers really do make sense. One key thing is that Garnett and Bryant both know that teammates don't have to like each other in order to win, so their clashing personalities wouldn't be that big a deal. The problem is that Odom is their only trade piece with much value, and if they insist on keeping Butler, that could be a deal-breaker. Still, something like Odom/Divac(retiring)/Mihm/Vujacic/picks for Garnett/Szczerbiak isn't completely absurd, since Minnesota would get huge salary relief and some "potential" to build around.

 

[Joe Mama]

If there is any truth to this I would think Chicago might be the best option. They've been in the lottery so long that they are overstocked with good, young talent. I'm just not sure how they could get salaries to come close even if the rules are loosened with the new CBA. You know Dallas would try to get in on the deal, and they have plenty of good young talent. Portland also has some young talented players and soon-to-be expiring contracts.

If you think Shawn Marion and Q would have been a nice package please look at what it just took to get rid of Q. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell Minnesota would make a deal like that. I don't care if you throw in multiple first-round draft picks, Barbosa, etc.

Am I the only person who thinks that KG only goes in a deal that includes another big, ideally a young one?

There are several significant differences between KG's situation and Shaq's with the Lakers.

1. Shaq makes a heck of lot more money.
2. Shaq's contract is scheduled to expire next season, KG has much longer to go.
3. Shaq has a long history of injuries and conditioning problems
4. The Lakers had another superstar who didn't get along with Shaq.

Inspite of all these reasons to trade Shaq, the Lakers went from the finals to the lottery in one year. It is simply not feasible for the Wolves to get enough back to make a deal worthwhile.

Thanks for saving me the time, George. I don't think Minnesota will have to settle for a deal like the Lakers did. I mean even if they aren't happy with the results of last years team, Kevin Garnet is what draws people to the games in Minnesota. He's the reason people watch. He's the reason they get games on national TV. I think it would take an extraordinary package to move him out of Minnesota. Settling for anything less would be a huge blunder by the Timberwolves.

Kevin Garnet has 4 years left on his deal. He's been a healthy. He's highly paid, but he still makes $10 million per season less than Shaquille O'Neal. Like I said, I don't see them moving him unless they get something fantastic in return.

As far as I can tell the Timberwolves only have $40 million in contracts for next season. If they could get someone to take Wally and a draft pick or something like that for an expiring contract they would be in even better shape. Time to call Isaiah!

KG and Amare on the same team?

Looks good on paper, especially with Nash feeding them the ball... but that would leave the suns very vulnerable when an injury happens or foul trouble.

It would leave the Phoenix Suns in the same situation they are in now if there is an injury or foul trouble. At least they would have Kurt Thomas coming off the bench.

On the premise this by saying I don't think it will ever happen. A frontcourt with Amare Stoudemire and Kevin Garnett would be devastating. Their styles, and the way they prefer to play offensively would fit very well together.

Joe Mama

 

[AsUdUdE]

While the thought of having Garnett orginally sounds interesting... I don't think he is coming here, if for nothing else but the simple fact that that unless the deal includes Amare, Minny won't just hand us Garnett, and make an already good team GREAT.


Even a deal of Marion, JJ, Barbosa, and/or Jackson with picks, for KG and hudson, wouldn't get the deal done, and I think it would be a kittle too much for the suns to give up, IMO (though there is something to be said about getting a superstar in his prime). I just have to admit I agree with a lot of the previous posters, Minny will hold out until they can land a young talented Big, cap room, AND young talent, all of which we don't have to offer them....(unless you considering JJ young, or Barbs 'young talent')

MInny would be much better off doing a deal with Chi, if they can swing a deal like this and get Gordn, Deng, Chandler, and picks, for KG.

and that would be the deal Im shooting for...

And one final thing, I totally agree, if by some form of imagination KG ends up in L.A. Im just going to Throw things!

 

[elindholm]

Kevin Garnet is what draws people to the games in Minnesota. He's the reason people watch. He's the reason they get games on national TV. I think it would take an extraordinary package to move him out of Minnesota. Settling for anything less would be a huge blunder by the Timberwolves.

It depends on how unhappy he is. You could have said all of the same things about O'Neal last summer. Garnett is still in the prime of his career, but O'Neal guarantees that his team is an instant title contender, which is a claim Garnett can't make.

As far as I can tell the Timberwolves only have $40 million in contracts for next season.

Hoopshype has them at $46.6 million, and that doesn't count Hudson, who signed a six-year deal for the MLE last summer.

 

[Joe Mama]

Kevin Garnet is what draws people to the games in Minnesota. He's the reason people watch. He's the reason they get games on national TV. I think it would take an extraordinary package to move him out of Minnesota. Settling for anything less would be a huge blunder by the Timberwolves.

It depends on how unhappy he is. You could have said all of the same things about O'Neal last summer. Garnett is still in the prime of his career, but O'Neal guarantees that his team is an instant title contender, which is a claim Garnett can't make.

Yeah, of course you left out the part of my post (agreed with George) that points out the differences between this and Shaquille O'Neal's situation last summer. That is that KG has 4 more seasons on his deal, he's healthy, Minnesota doesn't have another superstar that is at odds with KG, KG is in his prime while Shaq is not, etc.

As far as I can tell the Timberwolves only have $40 million in contracts for next season.

Hoopshype has them at $46.6 million, and that doesn't count Hudson, who signed a six-year deal for the MLE last summer.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry. I was talking about it as if we were already in the 2005-06 season. I meant that next summer they would be looking at only $40 million in contracts.

Joe Mama