Getting a Grip on Q's Hip

[joeshmo]

Thankfully, it's not up to you.

So, if 14 different teams came forward offering a 6th round pick for our top 14 backups, would you make those trades? We could then have 14 more 6th rounders next year, and no backups this year. Would you have traded Warner for a 6th before the season? He's making more than Marcel, maybe that money could have gone to Dansby. That would have been a hell of a move. Injuries are part of the game, and you better have a plan B if James goes down. I guess JJ could be your plan B?

Marcel was the FIRST guy signed in the Weisenhunt era. Do you think that is a coincidence? It's not. Marcel is the perfect back as a backup in our system. He runs hard between the tackles, and among the most respected guys on the team.

Wow nice job putting words in my mouth and making overblowed exaggerations to try and prove your point. Probably couldnt make a point otherwise.

14 backups? Yeah thats exactly what I want to do? Warner, I told people before the season Warner was just fine what he was making when others wanted to cut him. Backup QB for a young QB with injury history compared to a 3rd string RB, backing up a RB that does 300+ carries a season like its nothing. Yep that the same. Nothing is in a vacuum my man. And if you dont think Shipp is the 3rd string RB then what is JJ doing being the first RB Wiz brings in to be a blocking RB on pass downs, or why does JJ have more touches then Shipp. Shipp will end up with 20 touches and 5 special teams tackles to end the season while Warner will have played in 12+ games. Great comparison there.

As for Shipp being the first to sign what exactly is that supposed to mean. Milligan signed a 3 year contract the same day and has been cut. Not exactly a good point for your argument.

 

[40yearfan]

Edge doesnt get tired. Dude runs 300+ carries a season like its nothing, and is showing no signs what so ever slowing down.

As for depth JJ is the 2nd string RB. No matter what any depth chart tells you JJ has played in 50% more snaps then Shipp.

If Edge goes down we are screwed no matter what. Shipp, JJ, Blaylark they are all the same if our OL is blocking.

And you can tell this with 11 total carries between all 3 players? Shipp only had 3 carries, but he's averaging almost 8 yards a carry. Why would you think we are screwed if he has to take over?

 

[joeshmo]

Regarding the TB offer - The Football Gods are watching - Bet the store that Edge would come down with a serious injury within hours after the deal was done.

If we can win without Q I say the football gods aren't even watching us this year. They are to busy with the Rams right now.

 

[Pariah]

If Edge goes down we are screwed no matter what. Shipp, JJ, Blaylark they are all the same if our OL is blocking.

I don't agree at all. I think Shipp is the most complete back of the backups and brings an element of toughness that the others don't. That's important, IMO.

I'm not completely opposed to trading Shipp, but I'd want more than a 6th. If a team doesn't want to give it, no problem. We keep him. I think he's a pretty good #2.

JMHO

 

[joeshmo]

And you can tell this with 11 total carries between all 3 players? Shipp only had 3 carries, but he's averaging almost 8 yards a carry. Why would you think we are screwed if he has to take over?

So in one sentance you say you cant tell much on 11 carries, Yet you bring up Shipps 8 YPC on 3 touches as proof of him being a good backup? Cant have it both ways.

Maybe screwed was the wrong word, maybe big decline in production is better. But you cannot honestly say that Edge is not in a completely different league then JJ, Shipp, or Blaylark.

Add to that I dont think very highly of Shipp in the first place. Toughness and heart is nice to have but it doesn't equal talent or production. Shipp has the first two but he doesnt have the 2nd two.

 

[joeshmo]

I don't agree at all. I think Shipp is the most complete back of the backups and brings an element of toughness that the others don't. That's important, IMO.

What has he done since 2002 to prove that to you?

3 TD's from the 1 yard line in 1 game last year?

And if he was the most complete back then why does JJ have more touches and is the main blocking RB after Edge on passing downs. JJ has played in 50% more snaps then Shipp. That doesnt exactly scream most complete backup RB to me.

 

[joeshmo]

Nah. We have edge who will never be hurt again. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice. I'll take earnest Graham off there hands and a 3rd rounder for Shipp n Arrington

I would take their 3rd string TE if he can block. Got to be better then our trio.

 

[40yearfan]

So in one sentance you say you cant tell much on 11 carries, Yet you bring up Shipps 8 YPC on 3 touches as proof of him being a good backup? Cant have it both ways.

Maybe screwed was the wrong word, maybe big decline in production is better. But you cannot honestly say that Edge is not in a completely different league then JJ, Shipp, or Blaylark.

We won't know unless Shipp has to come in full time. I would certainly take him over any of the other backups that would be available if Shipp wasn't available. I just don't understand the willingness to exchange a solid backup for a sixth round draft choice.

 

[joeshmo]

We won't know unless Shipp has to come in full time. I would certainly take him over any of the other backups that would be available if Shipp wasn't available. I just don't understand the willingness to exchange a solid backup for a sixth round draft choice.

Thats becuase I think JJ and Blaylark would have just as much production as Shipp would. Shipp hasnt produced since 2002, I dont have high hopes that he can produce 5 years later. JJ is just as solid of a Backup IMO. So I trade the one that is making 2.2 Mill. for 20 carries and 5 special teams tackles a season.

 

[joeshmo]

I will say that I can see why they wouldnt do it. They are currently winning so why change anything at this point in time for a 6th rounder.

 

[Pariah]

Shipp hasnt produced since 2002, I dont have high hopes that he can produce 5 years later. JJ is just as solid of a Backup IMO.

Joe, you're playing the same game we are--Shipp may not have produced since 2002, but JJ hasn't produced at all. What makes you think he can?

Until any of these backs get a full workload behind this line, none of us know. Hopefully, we'll never find out.

 

[40yearfan]

Thats becuase I think JJ and Blaylark would have just as much production as Shipp would. Shipp hasnt produced since 2002, I dont have high hopes that he can produce 5 years later. JJ is just as solid of a Backup IMO. So I trade the one that is making 2.2 Mill. for 20 carries and 5 special teams tackles a season.

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't agree with you. From a pure RB position, I believe Shipp is light years ahead of JJ. JJ is a more complete all around player when you add in his receiving skills, but with the WR's we have, that skill is seldom required. The thing of it is that we have both and can afford to keep both. Why limit our skills in that area for a very slim chance that we might be able to improve another area of the team?

BTW, with the Cap rapidly approaching $100 Million, spending 2% on a backup RB doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe, you're playing the same game we are--Shipp may not have produced since 2002, but JJ hasn't produced at all. What makes you think he can?

Which is exactly the point I am making. Neither one we should have confidence in being the starter, so what is the big deal trading one of them and riding with the other one if Edge goes down.

I would have easily said trade JJ for a 6th instead of Shipp. Either one it doesnt matter we only need one and neither one I have confidence in. I just picked JJ over Shipp becuase Wiz uses him more in our offense then Shipp, and JJ is by far the better blocker.

 

[joeshmo]

We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't agree with you. From a pure RB position, I believe Shipp is light years ahead of JJ. JJ is a more complete all around player when you add in his receiving skills, but with the WR's we have, that skill is seldom required. The thing of it is that we have both and can afford to keep both. Why limit our skills in that area for a very slim chance that we might be able to improve another area of the team?

BTW, with the Cap rapidly approaching $100 Million, spending 2% on a backup RB doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

If Shipp was light years ahead of JJ then Shipp would be the one with more carries and be the main blocking RB on 3rd down. I am going purely on who Wiz is using more in his offense.

2% that can be used on something other then a 3rd string RB and average Special teamer. 2% that can be used to make sure you lock up Dansby longer term. Thats a lot for 2%.

 

[CardLogic]

If Shipp was light years ahead of JJ then Shipp would be the one with more carries and be the main blocking RB on 3rd down. I am going purely on who Wiz is using more in his offense.

2% that can be used on something other then a 3rd string RB and average Special teamer. 2% that can be used to make sure you lock up Dansby longer term. Thats a lot for 2%.

Minor point: Arrington isn't the preferred 3rd down RB because of his blocking ability, but rather due to his receiving ability.

 

[Pariah]

Minor point: Arrington isn't the preferred 3rd down RB because of his blocking ability, but rather due to his receiving ability.

I suspect if Edge went down stick, Shipp would replace him and Arrington would remain the 3rd down back. Shipp is listed as the #2, after all.

 

[40yearfan]

If Shipp was light years ahead of JJ then Shipp would be the one with more carries and be the main blocking RB on 3rd down. I am going purely on who Wiz is using more in his offense.

2% that can be used on something other then a 3rd string RB and average Special teamer. 2% that can be used to make sure you lock up Dansby longer term. Thats a lot for 2%.

Well, if you check out the depth chart, Shipp is rated as the #2 RB and I'm sure Whis is the one who makes the depth chart out.

http://www.azcardinals.com/gameday/depth_chart.php

BTW, if it only takes $2 Million to lock Dansby up, we need to give RG a raise.

 

[D-Dogg]

Well, if you check out the depth chart, Shipp is rated as the #2 RB and I'm sure Whis is the one who makes the depth chart out.

His point is that Shipp gets no burn and JJ does. Thus, the depth chart is meaningless in that regard.

 

[Pariah]

His point is that Shipp gets no burn and JJ does. Thus, the depth chart is meaningless in that regard.

Shipp's role on this team is to backup Edge. Arrington's role is as a 3rd down back. Of course JJ is seeing more time--3rd downs happen more often then Edge leaving the game because he's gassed.

 

[D-Dogg]

Shipp's role on this team is to backup Edge. Arrington's role is as a 3rd down back. Of course JJ is seeing more time--3rd downs happen more often then Edge leaving the game because he's gassed.

I don't see Whis going to Shipp if (god forbid) Edge is on the shelf. He really hasn't shown any confidence in him.

Whis made a point to say Edge wouldn't get all the carries this year...well, Shipp sure hasn't been given many (I'd say that's a mistake, but again, I trust Whis).

 

[Pariah]

Whis made a point to say Edge wouldn't get all the carries this year...well, Shipp sure hasn't been given many (I'd say that's a mistake, but again, I trust Whis).

He also said we'd run it 500-600 times, and that's not happening. I suspect he's running Edge just as much as he originally thought he would, but not running the ball as much as he thought we would.

 

[D-Dogg]

He also said we'd run it 500-600 times, and that's not happening. I suspect he's running Edge just as much as he originally thought he would, but not running the ball as much as he thought we would.

Maybe. I just don't buy that Shipp being the backup and JJ is the 3rd down back is why we don't see much of Shipp.

If Whis liked what Shipp was bringing, he'd get him on the field more. He clearly has no problem bringing in backups for a change of pace (QB postion, in the past switching up Bus and Parker). I'm a little surprised he hasn't given shipp a lot more burn, personally.

 

[Pariah]

What's with the "burn" crap? Where did that come from?

 

[D-Dogg]

What's with the "burn" crap? Where did that come from?

From fire. Cavemen, probably.

 

[Pariah]

From fire. Cavemen, probably.

That's lamer than spaghetti.