Giannis vs Ayton / Middleton vs Bridges

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the biggest problem in this conversation isn't that there's two sides to the argument, it's that each side is arguing about a different issue. Yes, a better power forward makes us better, although I'm not sure an additional (slightly above average) power forward has any impact on the final outcome, but many of us don't believe it was what the Bucks did that handcuffed our offense.

I think many of us here believe that it was mostly Booker's hamstring, Payton's sprained ankle and Paul's shoulder, wrist and hand that limited our offense, rather than any changes the Bucks made. And had our three guards still been able to shoot, pass and penetrate effectively, Milwaukee wouldn't have been able to exploit our inability to match-up with Giannis and all their front court bodies.

They would’ve still been able to exploit our inability to matchup with their bigs, but we would’ve been better able to respond at the other end. I’d agree with that. I mean if each of Payne, book, and Paul just netted a single bucket more each per game I think we win in 6. And it’s reasonable to hypothesize that scenario absent their injuries. I don’t see this as an excuse, injuries happened, but it’s worthwhile to factor in when considering making changes to the roster for the next season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They would’ve still been able to exploit our inability to matchup with their bigs, but we would’ve been better able to respond at the other end. I’d agree with that. I mean if each of Payne, book, and Paul just netted a single bucket more each per game I think we win in 6. And it’s reasonable to hypothesize that scenario absent their injuries. I don’t see this as an excuse, injuries happened, but it’s worthwhile to factor in when considering making changes to the roster for the next season.

Agreed. It's not like we got screwed because of injuries - we clearly benefitted all season long from the misfortunes suffered by our opponents. But if we played from game 3 on at full strength I really believe we win in 5 if we don't sweep.

We're all hoping that we bring back a better team this season but with our lack of tradable assets and cap room, most of our improvement this season will have to come from player growth.

We've improved slightly with Javale but we still need another big man that can legitimately earn his minutes. But we may not get one. If that's the way it goes it won't be the end of the world but we'll once again be in a pack of 6 or 8 teams that will need a fair amount of good luck (at the right time) to win it all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agreed. It's not like we got screwed because of injuries - we clearly benefitted all season long from the misfortunes suffered by our opponents. But if we played from game 3 on at full strength I really believe we win in 5 if we don't sweep.

We're all hoping that we bring back a better team this season but with our lack of tradable assets and cap room, most of our improvement this season will have to come from player growth.

We've improved slightly with Javale but we still need another big man that can legitimately earn his minutes. But we may not get one. If that's the way it goes it won't be the end of the world but we'll once again be in a pack of 6 or 8 teams that will need a fair amount of good luck (at the right time) to win it all.

I agree. But let’s not underestimate the potential power of player development. We still have a slew of young guys who are squarely in our majority minutes played who can still experience explosive growth in Ayton, Bridges, cam, cam, and even stix. And I also believe Booker still has untapped upside as a three point shooter and in his savvy with the game. That, coupled with shamet and mcgee could make for a big leap forward.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the biggest problem in this conversation isn't that there's two sides to the argument, it's that each side is arguing about a different issue. Yes, a better power forward makes us better, although I'm not sure an additional (slightly above average) power forward has any impact on the final outcome, but many of us don't believe it was what the Bucks did that handcuffed our offense.

I think many of us here believe that it was mostly Booker's hamstring, Payton's sprained ankle and Paul's shoulder, wrist and hand that limited our offense, rather than any changes the Bucks made. And had our three guards still been able to shoot, pass and penetrate effectively, Milwaukee wouldn't have been able to exploit our inability to match-up with Giannis and all their front court bodies.

I definitely agree, but I also want to add that the experience played a big part as well. Milwaukee has been deep in the playoffs over the past few years. Suns had not. I might be forgetting someone or something here, but I want to say that Crowder has been to the finals and CP3 has been to conference finals. I don't believe the rest of the roster ever made the playoffs. Again, I might be forgetting a random player who was on a playoff team, but for the most part, Suns' rotation hasn't sniffed the playoffs, let alone the finals. Ayton, Booker, Bridges, Cam J, Cam P, definittely had no playoffs experience. Combine the injuries with the lack of experience and I think we have the answer as to how the Suns lost. To be fair, they definitely were very thin behind Ayton when it comes to big men, but that wasn't THE deciding factor.

 

[Chaplin]

I definitely agree, but I also want to add that the experience played a big part as well. Milwaukee has been deep in the playoffs over the past few years. Suns had not. I might be forgetting someone or something here, but I want to say that Crowder has been to the finals and CP3 has been to conference finals. I don't believe the rest of the roster ever made the playoffs. Again, I might be forgetting a random player who was on a playoff team, but for the most part, Suns' rotation hasn't sniffed the playoffs, let alone the finals. Ayton, Booker, Bridges, Cam J, Cam P, definittely had no playoffs experience. Combine the injuries with the lack of experience and I think we have the answer as to how the Suns lost. To be fair, they definitely were very thin behind Ayton when it comes to big men, but that wasn't THE deciding factor.

Wasn't there a big deal made because Chris Paul never made it to a conference finals before? I thought I remember hearing that all through the Clippers series.

 

[Mainstreet]

When planning, I don't think you only plan for optimal conditions. You plan for adversity as well.

I want backups for the backups. The Suns need to be 3x5 at every position as James Jones termed it. I think the Suns are nearly there. They have done that for nearly every position.

It stands to reason the Suns will tweak their roster minimally by the trade deadline to strengthen the front court.

Unless Jalen Smith unexpectedly blossoms, the Suns are minimally one Torrey Craig type contributor away. It's an 82 game schedule this season. Depth will be more important than ever.

 

[SirStefan32]

Wasn't there a big deal made because Chris Paul never made it to a conference finals before? I thought I remember hearing that all through the Clippers series.

Possibly. I really didn't look it up. I think he made the conference finals his first year in Houston, but I am not sure.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Possibly. I really didn't look it up. I think he made the conference finals his first year in Houston, but I am not sure.

Yeah. He was on the 65 win Rockets team that had the Durant Warriors down 3-2 in the WCF, but CP3 pulled his hammy late in Game 5 and had to sit the last two games as Houston blew back to back games with a 17 point lead in each... getting boat raced in the process.