Give Amare MAX or let him walk>

[AzStevenCal]

But you have continually claimed that Amare is definitely worth the super max. Sorry, but it's just confusing.

Well, I've never intended to claim that. If that's the message you're getting from my posts than I'm doing a poor job of making my point. Sorry for the confusion.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Well, I've never intended to claim that. If that's the message you're getting from my posts than I'm doing a poor job of making my point. Sorry for the confusion.

Steve

I think at the end of the day we agree that 15mil per is a good number, maybe for 4 years, certainly not more than 5. Even when healthy, I don't think he's worth more than that.

 

[cly2tw]

Nash's skill level has not declined but his stamina has. He is no more capable of carrying the team with his dribble driving circling the paint games like under DA, say more than a full month. As to his bad games, he had many good statistical games which he lost for us in the 4th quarter due to fatique. So, anyone saying we'd be able to compete with Nash playing like 3 years ago plus any PF like Diaw or Lee is kidding themselves.

Amare, without injury concern, will be as tradable as Ray Allen, Pierce, or KG back when their own teams sucked.

 

[Joe Mama]

Nash's skill level has not declined but his stamina has. He is no more capable of carrying the team with his dribble driving circling the paint games like under DA, say more than a full month. As to his bad games, he had many good statistical games which he lost for us in the 4th quarter due to fatique. So, anyone saying we'd be able to compete with Nash playing like 3 years ago plus any PF like Diaw or Lee is kidding themselves.

Amare, without injury concern, will be as tradable as Ray Allen, Pierce, or KG back when their own teams sucked.

his contract will be about the same size as Kevin Garnett's was when he was traded, and there is not one sane person who believes he's close to do same level of player that KG was at that time. Please do not come back to me with a stats comparison. Kevin Garnet was probably the best defensive player in the NBA when he was traded. Amare Stoudemire is a liability. Wasn't Kevin Garnett also in the last year of that monster contract. If you are saying we could trade Amare Stoudemire in two years that would leave three years and something like $80 million. Paul Pierce was viewed as a complete player. Ray Allen might be the best comparison of those three. However this is all assuming that he is completely healthy. That just seems like a big assumption.

Oh to be a fly on the wall during these negotiations would be really fun. I would love to hear what they are offering.

Regarding Leandro Barbosa... even if he was playing at the top of his game $7 million for the next two seasons would be hard to move. Since he's coming off a down season the only way he could get moved is if we sweeten the deal with Lopez/Dragic or somehow worked our way into a multi-team trade. Teams are not looking to waste precious cap space on inconsistent combo guards this summer. Maybe we could find some underperforming big man with the next three years on his contract who is making something close to Barbosa's money and hope to make that guy better.

Joe

 

[DoTheDew]

Sign and trade should be the #1 plan of the front office.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sign and trade should be the #1 plan of the front office.

But it's not. The Suns have basically said they are making another run. They think because they got to the WCF that the maturity of the younger guys can push them over the top.

So, the Sun's just put themselves in a position where they have to sign Amare. No other FA that could take Amare's place is going to come here for 11 million or so that the Suns would have available if Amare walks. All these bigs are going to get overpaid in the offseason and any leftovers the Suns can get their hands on will be overpaid downgrades IMO.

 

[jandaman]

Lol

I think Kerr isnt that naive... he knows Suns will always struggle against teams with big men who can score and grab boards.

Suns can indeed make a return to the WCF or even improve upon that, Stoudemire is a factor to that goal but he isnt the "critical" piece either. He is replacable.

 

[devilalum]

Doesn't sound like Wade wants Amare.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5283536

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Doesn't sound like Wade wants Amare.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5283536

You seriously came to that conclusion from that article?

How?

 

[Mainstreet]

I am with you except for all of your worrying about Steve Nash. I can't remember if I posted something about this already or not. I know I've read this from a couple other people. I just don't understand this idea that Steve Nash is going to suddenly drop off. The only evidence I've seen presented so far was that he was inconsistent in the middle of the season when he had a torn stomach muscle or something like that. if he had some off nights because he was injured he must have been amazing the other nights because his stats are just as good or better than they have been the entire time he's been here in Phoenix. Sometimes when I read these posts about how he is certain to fall apart I wonder if I'm on that show Fringe and some people are watching a different Steve Nash in an alternate reality.


Sure, we all know he's a liability on defense. that problem is exacerbated when he is playing with Amare and vice versa. Still, offensively Steve Nash may still be the best point guard in the NBA. He doesn't have an outrageous contract. How many games has he missed since he signed with us? In six seasons he has missed 26 games. Last season he missed just one game. I mean knock on wood for me, but he's one of the last people I worry about on this team, especially with the emergence of Dragic.

Now having said all that I could see the Phoenix Suns struggling for one reason or another this season heading into the trade deadline. I mean the margin of error in the Western Conference is razor thin. I could see management going to him and saying, "we are getting a lot of really good offers for you. We hate to lose you, but do any of these destinations interest you?"

I think it was a couple weeks ago right after the Suns got knocked out that I saw that local guy who now works for ESPN talking about Amare Stoudemire's future with the team. At that time he said that according to his sources management was split on whether they even wanted him back. The way it was said I took it to mean that regardless of whether it was what they have reportedly already offered (contract averaging $18 million) or the maximum the front office was split about whether they even wanted Amare Stoudemire to continue with the Phoenix Suns. Mean we all know the problems with signing him to a maximum contract or anything near it. I don't think anybody believes he is truly a maximum contract player, and a lot of us are worried about his knees and other possible injuries. I mean if he was without a history of knee problems and showing no loss of athleticism I would probably say keep him even at the max. If he was a good defender and had shown me more in the playoffs, especially on the boards I would say sign him to the max even with the history of injuries. But you put the two together, and I just think it's too risky. I think it's too risky with a contract starting at $18 million much less $21 million. I don't think there's a chance in hell they offer him a sixth season, nor should they.

I have read at least one prominent poster here who repeatedly says that if we don't want to Amare Stoudemire down the road we can just trade him. There's a major problem with that logic though. If we don't want him chances are neither does anybody else. If he gets injured again he's unmovable. If his productivity drops off he is virtually unmovable. Unfortunately Isaiah Thomas is out of the league, and I don't think we are allowed to trade him to Central Florida or wherever it is that Thomas coaches now. No, either he'll be playing at a level where we don't want to get rid of him, or we would have to give away the farm to move his contract.

The problem, of course, is how do you find somebody to replace him. I wouldn't touch David Lee for the money he's likely to get. His defense is as bad as Amare's, he's nowhere near the offensive player, and he is smaller than Amare Stoudemire. I would try to bring back Channing Frye and count on him to keep improving. I know he had some rough stretches, but without him this team would not have made the playoffs. Losing both him and Amare would be devastating. I'll be curious to see what other teams offer him.

I agree that Lou is almost certainly gone. Although, if they couldn't get a sign and trade done with Amare Stoudemire there would be room for him as long as he would sign for a reasonable contract. That only works if Earl Clark can consistently knock down jumpers though. The reason he has worked so well here is that all of his teammates are good shooters. I don't think you can play him with another big man who can't consistently knock down an open jump shot.

I know I'm rambling here, but I don't see Barbosa getting traded this summer either. I mean I would never say never, but I just can't imagine a scenario where they could get him moved. I don't think they'll be giving away their draft picks to get things done in the near future. This summer especially when so many teams are trying to shed salary because of the free agent market and the economy I think we are stuck with Barbosa. That doesn't bother me so much. I could see him having a bounce back season. I., along with everyone else, just wish we had that $7 million to play with in free agency.

I think it was slin who mentioned Chandler in another thread. I wonder if there's any way they could get him for a reasonable price on a one-year deal with a player option. It seems to me they could sell him on our medical staff and the chance to play with Steve Nash in a Phoenix Suns system that is sure to increase his value. I'm not sure that would be enough to get him here, but I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibilities. Who else could be that next Phoenix Suns rehab project?

Okay, I think I'm about done here. If anybody actually reads this entire post please tell me if it made sense. There's no way I'm going back to reread it all. I think Amare Stoudemire will walk without needing a sign and trade. I think we should re-sign Channing Frye. I think we all better pray that Earl Clark improves drastically this summer and that Robin Lopez can stay healthy next season.

Joe

Joe, I meant to reply to your post in some detail but I didn't get around to it. So I will make it brief. I very much enjoyed reading your post and thought you made some good points. If this is "rambling" please keep it up.

 

[sunsfan88]

Anyone from the 60 that voted let him walk change their minds yet?

If NY can draw Melo cuz of Amar'e, what's not to say him staying in Phoenix couldn't have drawn Deron or Paul? Both are better defenders than Nash so they'd have to think they could get further than Nash could.

Sarver is an idiot and I'm glad we have Babby and Blanks.

 

[BC867]

Anyone from the 60 that voted let him walk change their minds yet?

If NY can draw Melo cuz of Amar'e, what's not to say him staying in Phoenix couldn't have drawn Deron or Paul? Both are better defenders than Nash so they'd have to think they could get further than Nash could.

Sarver is an idiot and I'm glad we have Babby and Blanks.

Now, as then, I feel that the cons outweigh the pros.

His health, lack of defense and foul trouble remain potential problems, especially with both the Suns and Knicks playing him out of position at Center.

And for the short term, let's see how adding Melo to Amar'e plays out in the post-season.

 

[mojorizen7]

Public polls people. I cant remember what i voted. haha

 

[sunsfan88]

Now, as then, I feel that the cons outweigh the pros.

His health, lack of defense and foul trouble remain potential problems, especially with both the Suns and Knicks playing him out of position at Center.

And for the short term, let's see how adding Melo to Amar'e plays out in the post-season.

Us getting CP3 or D-Will would be way different than the Knicks gettin Melo. For starters we wouldn't have to sell the farm to get either one.

Public polls people. I cant remember what i voted. haha

Its the option that's italicized. That's the one you voted.

 

[Griffin]

Anyone from the 60 that voted let him walk change their minds yet?

Whether or not it was the right decision won't be decided until several seasons down the road. It was all about the risk of injury in the future.

As been said already, we have not struggled this season because we haven't kept Amare, we struggled because we haven't replaced him with anyone. The main reason why the Suns started playing better was because of Channing Frye and Gortat and without Frye we started struggling again. Can't be very competitive in this league when your strating PF is a SF or a Warrick.

 

[Errntknght]

No change in my vote - to let him walk.

 

[elindholm]

Why would I change my vote in the absence of new information? Nothing about Stoudemire's or the Suns' performance this year has been a substantial surprise.

 

[jagu]

Letting him walk was the good thing to do. He wanted more responsibility and he still isn't doing much other than offense, him and Carmelo now give up around 109 PPG and both have been extreme failures on defense (I've seen almost every game and its so blatant). More excuses for Stat? He is a wonderful offensive player but he isn't going to help this current Suns unit (minus Gortat since he would not be here if Amare was here), win anything.

 

[sunsfan88]

Whether or not it was the right decision won't be decided until several seasons down the road. It was all about the risk of injury in the future.

As been said already, we have not struggled this season because we haven't kept Amare, we struggled because we haven't replaced him with anyone. The main reason why the Suns started playing better was because of Channing Frye and Gortat and without Frye we started struggling again. Can't be very competitive in this league when your strating PF is a SF or a Warrick.

Amare is the best scoring big man in the NBA. He can't be replaced just like that.

I agree getting scrubs like Hedo and Warrick didn't help much either.

 

[dodie53]

hedo is not a scrub,
the system in phoenix is not suited for him

 

[AzStevenCal]

hedo is not a scrub, the system in phoenix is not suited for him

Maybe you're right, maybe Hedo isn't a scrub. HOWEVER, when it comes to playing power forward Hedo is clearly a scrub and Warrick is even worse.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe you're right, maybe Hedo isn't a scrub. HOWEVER, when it comes to playing power forward Hedo is clearly a scrub and Warrick is even worse.

Steve

Hedo is not a PF and Warrick is no more than a spot player at PF. I always thought Hedo would be most effective as a high post center, at least on offense, with his passing and shooting skills. Although it may work for Orlando, I think Hedo is too slow or not physical enough to play either forward position.

 

[BC867]

Hedo is not a PF and Warrick is no more than a spot player at PF. I always thought Hedo would be most effective as a high post center, at least on offense, with his passing and shooting skills. Although it may work for Orlando, I think Hedo is too slow or not physical enough to play either forward position.

If basketball would allow a substitute Center while the ball is in play every time the opponents get the ball.

I'm chuckling just picturing our defensive Center running up and down the sideline on every play, ready to cross the line onto the court for defense . . . then Hedo doing the same for offense. 'Sort of a designated defender.

 

[sunsfan88]

The Grizzlies gave Z-Bo 71 Million over 4 years for getting Memphis the #7 seed and winning 1 playoff game against the Spurs. We get the #3 seed and reach the WCFs yet cant give Amare 3 more million a year than Z-Bo? Robert Sarver, you look dumber and dumber as the days go on..Your only hope is that Amare blows out a knee in 2 or 3 years.. but you'll still be a dumb*** arrogant selfish piece of sh*t.

 

[slinslin]

Of course letting him walk was stupid.

Even if they did not believe in his health they should have secured him as an asset. They could have had a better season with him and could have explored trading him now without the uncertainty of him being FA and not resigning with the team that is interested in him.