Going shopping: 2012 Free Agency

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't think there is a perfect model out there to follow (other than Kate Upton). There is more than one way to build a contender but I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it by sitting around and waiting for their assets to fully depreciate. We have a boring "present" and a scary "future" and just hoping it will change because we showed loyalty to a couple of old guys doesn't seem to be the best way to fix it.

Maybe I'm wrong, perhaps their plan will actually work and they will attract quality FA's and the turnaround time will be short. In fact, I really hope I'm wrong. Unfortunately, what I think will happen is something else entirely.

If we keep Nash through the end of this season, the best we may be able to hope for is that he takes a better offer elsewhere and we bottom out next year. If we re-sign Nash during the offseason, we'll get 2 or 3 more years of uneventful basketball and then, we'll bottom out and finally begin a process that should have started no later than the day we said goodbye to Amare.

Steve

Well stated, per usual.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns put themselves in position to be a contender most recently by drafting Steve Nash with the 15th in the 1996 draft (without getting into all the nuts and bolts like Steve Nash being traded to Dallas) and by drafting Amare Stoudemire 9th in the 2002 NBA Draft (via receiving this pick from Orlando by taking on Bo Outlaw's contract). Additionally Shawn Marion was selected with the 9th pick in the 1999 draft and Joe Johnson was acquired by trade from the Celtics for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk. Joe Johnson was selected with the 10th pick by the Celtics in the 2001 draft.

So the Suns were able to put turn themselves into a legitimate contender with literally four stars: Nash, Stoudemire, Marion and Johnson by drafting smartly with two #9 picks, a #15 pick and a trade (for a #10 pick). This should have been more than enough to win a championship if these players could have been kept together. IMO, the crack in the foundation occurred when the Suns did not extend Joe Johnson.

As I see it, the most key ingredient to building a contender is good ownership and a smart GM plus some skill in the draft. I will say picking number #9 appears lucky for the Suns. However, a star studded team can be built by picking 9-15 in the NBA Draft so the tanking theory need not apply.

 

[slinslin]

The biggest failure was trading the #7 pick for just a future Bulls pick that didnt even become a lottery pick.

And all that just to overpay Quentin Richardson even more and then shipping more picks away to get rid off Q.

This as a whole is probably the worst transaction in the history of the Suns. Thanks Bryan Colangelo for that.

Had we kept that pick we would have gotten Deng or Iguodala which would have allowed us to trade Marion for a center like Camby.

We could have possibly had

Camby
Amare
Iguodala
Johnson
Nash

And had we missed out on Nash because of keeping that #7 pick well we would have sucked another year giving us a good chance to get Chris Paul or Deron Williams next year.

 

[slinslin]

As I see it, the most key ingredient to building a contender is good ownership and a smart GM plus some skill in the draft. I will say picking number #9 appears lucky for the Suns. However, a star studded team can be built by picking 9-15 in the NBA Draft so the tanking theory need not apply.

The chance to get a very good player between #9-15 is MUCH smaller than in the top 5.

Among the top 100 players ever half of them were drafted in the top 5.

Just because the Suns got lucky twice to get borderline allstar caliber players at #9 does not mean they will get lucky there again. It's called a fluke.

 

[BC867]

Could you name please one?

Anyone better than the backup Point Guards we have now.

I am sure the Suns scouts could answer that question a lot better than I.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The biggest failure was trading the #7 pick for just a future Bulls pick that didnt even become a lottery pick.

And all that just to overpay Quentin Richardson even more and then shipping more picks away to get rid off Q.

This as a whole is probably the worst transaction in the history of the Suns. Thanks Bryan Colangelo for that.

Had we kept that pick we would have gotten Deng or Iguodala which would have allowed us to trade Marion for a center like Camby.

We could have possibly had

Camby
Amare
Iguodala
Johnson
Nash

And had we missed out on Nash because of keeping that #7 pick well we would have sucked another year giving us a good chance to get Chris Paul or Deron Williams next year.

There is a level, in their first few years in the league, where young players can easily be overhyped. This happened with Q. It also happened with Gilbert Arenas and others. My fear is that Gordon will be one of those players and we're going to go out and overpay him only to find out he is a flash in the pan with a bloated contract.

 

[slinslin]

Q was never considered more than a MLE type of player. Arenas and Gordon were legit borderline allstar caliber players.

Surely Arenas also made a bunch of allstar games and playoff appearances as the best player on his team, not overhyped really.

When we signed Q he averaged 17/6 the year before in 36mpg but shot under 40% on a bad team. The year before he averaged 9/5 on 37% shooting on a bad team.

It is just mindboggling how Bryan Colangelo could think paying that player 2M$ per season more would justify trading a #7 pick for nothing but a future pick of a team that was no lock to be horrible again.

 

[Mainstreet]

The chance to get a very good player between #9-15 is MUCH smaller than in the top 5.

Among the top 100 players ever half of them were drafted in the top 5.

Just because the Suns got lucky twice to get borderline allstar caliber players at #9 does not mean they will get lucky there again. It's called a fluke.

I guess it was a fluke to your thinking that the Suns drafted Nash (2 time MVP) at #15 and Joe Johnson was selected #10 (by the Celtics).

 

[slinslin]

Please now all I need to hear is how the Suns should keep winning because at #9 they drafted Amare and Marion so obviously #9 is as good as a #3 pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

Please now all I need to hear is how the Suns should keep winning because at #9 they drafted Amare and Marion so obviously #9 is as good as a #3 pick.

I'm just saying the Suns built a star studded team to become a contender using players drafted 9-15... four stars on one team no less. Drafting early always gives a team better odds of drafting a star but by no means guarantees it.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Q was never considered more than a MLE type of player. Arenas and Gordon were legit borderline allstar caliber players.

Surely Arenas also made a bunch of allstar games and playoff appearances as the best player on his team, not overhyped really.

When we signed Q he averaged 17/6 the year before in 36mpg but shot under 40% on a bad team. The year before he averaged 9/5 on 37% shooting on a bad team.

It is just mindboggling how Bryan Colangelo could think paying that player 2M$ per season more would justify trading a #7 pick for nothing but a future pick of a team that was no lock to be horrible again.

I agree the Q signing turned out not so well, but he was exciting that first year. Q brought a swagger that was fun to watch. The problem was his back and Sarver not allowing us to pay for a draft pick as well signing Q. Shortsighted, just like about every decision he has made.

Why did we even give Q that contract. Did he injure his back in Phoenix or was he damaged goods when we signed him? If he was injured prior to us signing him it is on Colangelo, otherwise it is Sarver IMO.

There have been so many bad moves in the Sarver era it is unbelievable.

He has been the constant.

Unfortunately he still owns the ship.

 

[slinslin]

It had nothing to do with Sarver man.

Bryan Colangelo traded the pick because he wanted to sign Q that is all. Had they not traded the pick they would have been able to only sign Steve Nash and someone for MLE money.

 

[JustWinBaby]

It had nothing to do with Sarver man.

Bryan Colangelo traded the pick because he wanted to sign Q that is all. Had they not traded the pick they would have been able to only sign Steve Nash and someone for MLE money.

Forgot that.

Dumb move whoever was responsible.

 

[Superbone]

The biggest failure was trading the #7 pick for just a future Bulls pick that didnt even become a lottery pick.

Agreed. We could have had Deng or Iggy for cheap for a few years.

 

[hcsilla]

Anyone better than the backup Point Guards we have now.

Which doesn't say too much.

 

[slinslin]

Considering that BC867 expects the same scouts that got us Telfair and Price to suddenly bring us the messiah next season from a shallow FA pool.

 

[PhxGametime]

From what I remember, the Suns were hoping to sign Mehmet Okur and Steve Nash; but maybe I'm wrong??


Andre Iguodala is my all-time favorite U of A player, ugh. I don't hate the guy but I was soooo upset with Sarver for that Trade!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

We could have possibly had

Camby
Amare
Iguodala
Johnson
Nash

that team would have destroyed world's for five years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember thinking i'd go nuclear if we signed Okur/Nash, but if we had done that and kept the pick and took Iggy or Deng:

Steve Nash
Joe Johnson
Iggy/Deng
Amare
Okur

Would have been absolutely unstoppable as well. And Okur would have been the perfect five for this team because he could stick the jumper all day long and even could have space the floor from the 5.

 

[Mainstreet]

From what I remember, the Suns were hoping to sign Mehmet Okur and Steve Nash; but maybe I'm wrong??


Andre Iguodala is my all-time favorite U of A player, ugh. I don't hate the guy but I was soooo upset with Sarver for that Trade!!

Iggy wasn't supposed to drop to #7 if one wants to believe that.

The trade was made before the Suns picked. IMO, Sarver wanted to save some bucks and BC tried to stash the pick in Chicago but it didn't work out. I don't believe BC would have made such a mistake without pressure from Sarver.

 

[slinslin]

Iggy wasn't supposed to drop to #7 if one wants to believe that.

The trade was made before the Suns picked. IMO, Sarver wanted to save some bucks and BC tried to stash the pick in Chicago but it didn't work out. I don't believe BC would have made such a mistake without pressure from Sarver.

OMG

This had nothing to do with Sarver trying to save money. The Suns were under the cap and Bryan Colangelo traded the pick because he wanted to have more caproom.

Yeah BC would have never made such a mistake as evidenced by his great work in Toronto or the McDyess fiasco, or the Penny fiasco, or the Googs fiasco, or... or...

 

[Mainstreet]

OMG

This had nothing to do with Sarver trying to save money. The Suns were under the cap and Bryan Colangelo traded the pick because he wanted to have more caproom.

Yeah BC would have never made such a mistake as evidenced by his great work in Toronto or the McDyess fiasco, or the Penny fiasco, or the Googs fiasco, or... or...

And Sarver had such a great track record using draft picks with Steve Kerr as GM.

The writing was on the wall early on with Sarver as the owner.

 

[slinslin]

And Sarver had such a great track record using draft picks with Steve Kerr as GM.

The writing was on the wall early on with Sarver as the owner.

Hate to break it to you man but as much as you want to hate Sarver, he is not the one making the draft decision.

If you think that Sarver is responsible for trading that #7 pick and then SPENDING MORE MONEY on Q is what happened there -> geez...

 

[Mainstreet]

Hate to break it to you man but as much as you want to hate Sarver, he is not the one making the draft decision.

If you think that Sarver is responsible for trading that #7 pick and then SPENDING MORE MONEY on Q is what happened there -> geez...

I believe BC made the call on Q, however, I don't think it was BC's desire to trade the Iggy pick. IMO, it was Sarver's influence on BC that made the trade happen.

 

[slinslin]

I believe BC made the call on Q, however, I don't think it was BC's desire to trade the Iggy pick. IMO, it was Sarver's influence on BC that made the trade happen.

HAHAHA come on man, because Sarver told him he rather wants to spend 40M$ on Quentin Richardson than 14M$ on the #7 pick that could have been UofA alumni Andre Iguodala?

Unreal, it was 100000000% Bryan Colangelo.