Good read on Cards FA acquisitions

[RugbyMuffin]

But not generally in Arizona. It's something that is just hard to understand: if RBs are so easy to find why has it been 25 years since the Cardinals have had a decent RB play for them for more than a couple of seasons? And why has every RB the Cardinals have drafted in the 2nd round over the last 50 years been a bust?

Well its been a little of this:

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And a little of that:

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You can find running backs in the later rounds but our past regime seems to have a problem finding the right one.

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Anyone can choose a later round RB but the teams that have done their homework gets the right type of guy.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And now they not only have a ton of new guys this season they're looking at having to bring in a ton of new guys next season because of all the one year deals. Meanwhile the ONLY time this franchise has any real success was during the 3 years they didn't turn over the roster every Spring and had more players with more time with the same team than any other team in the NFL.

Note: To be read in a "tone" that would suggest you are sitting next to me on a plastic chair, in the backyard, drinking a beer, and watching me poorly cook hamburgers, and veggieburgers.

You name the players that are currently on 1 year deals that you think are worth the time, money, and investment to sign to a deal longer then 1 year.

Then look over the players are 2 and 3 year deals and tell me the players that are worth a 5 year deal which makes them immovable for AT LEAST 2 years.

I hear what you are saying but the thinking behind it is going back to "The System Works". Yeah success 3 years ago with a bunch of players that were gone less than two years after the fact. What is worse ? The players this organization did invest in where mostly horrible, and crippled the franchise. Daryn Colledge & Lyle Sendlein, my personal whipping posts, are just not good enough, and have been invested in too much. Not to mention the best reason for the roster turnover: 5-11 plus 6,7 and 8 game losing streaks. Those players can't be that good.

There is fair justification for the roster turnover this year, and in future years teams that don't figure out how to turnover approximately at least 25% of the roster is going to get into cap trouble since the cap is "flat" for the next few seasons.

1-Year Contracts for 2013:
Rashard Mendenhall
Andre Roberts
Jeff King
Matt Shaughnessy
Frostee Rucker
O'Brien Schofield
Karlos Dansby
Reggie Walker
Antoine Cason
Yeremiah Bell
Jay Feely
Dave Zastudil

That's it. The rest are on 3 years or less deals, so they can be easily cut next season, but just as easily retained since they are under contract.

 

[Duckjake]

You name the players that are currently on 1 year deals that you think are worth the time, money, and investment to sign to a deal longer then 1 year.

Then look over the players are 2 and 3 year deals and tell me the players that are worth a 5 year deal which makes them immovable for AT LEAST 2 years.

You are the 2nd or 3rd person to write this so to me that would make any statement that the Cards did a good job in free agency wrong since none of the players are worth much. So now not only could we have a lot of roster turnover none of the guys we brought in are any good?

One thing that stands out is that we have 3 of our top 6 DBs, Arenas, Cason, and Bell, on one year deals so we could have a remake of the secondary again.

 

[Duckjake]

I hear what you are saying but the thinking behind it is going back to "The System Works". Yeah success 3 years ago with a bunch of players that were gone less than two years after the fact. What is worse ? The players this organization did invest in where mostly horrible, and crippled the franchise. Daryn Colledge & Lyle Sendlein, my personal whipping posts, are just not good enough, and have been invested in too much. Not to mention the best reason for the roster turnover: 5-11 plus 6,7 and 8 game losing streaks. Those players can't be that good.

But a lot of those guys are still on the roster including the two you mentioned. The problem with the team wasn't the players outside of QB. All the Cards needed to do was get rid of Grimm and, since they were a package deal Whisenhunt, and bring in a decent QB.

Instead they let go key defensive players, Wilson, Rhodes, Gay, and Lenon and lose Groves and Toler to FA. Those guys weren't the ones responsible for the 5-11 and losing streaks. They were the one's responsible for what success the Cards had. The 11-2 run 2011-2012. Yeah I know the defense was overrated and all those players are easily replaceable.

Meanwhile, Levi Brown, Colledge, and Sendlein, all the WRs other than Doucet, all the TEs, and Lindley are still around. The guys who were responsible along with Kolb and Skelton for the long losing streaks. The linemen are still here because Arians knows it was Grimm that was the problem. It's why we have so many offensive line coaches.

It was the offensive coaching and QB play period. I don't know why so many try to justify the turnover by claiming we had a roster full of terrible talent.

 

[Cardiac]

But a lot of those guys are still on the roster including the two you mentioned. The problem with the team wasn't the players outside of QB. All the Cards needed to do was get rid of Grimm and, since they were a package deal Whisenhunt, and bring in a decent QB.

Pretty much agree.

Instead they let go key defensive players, Wilson, Rhodes, Gay, and Lenon and lose Groves and Toler to FA. Those guys weren't the ones responsible for the 5-11 and losing streaks. They were the one's responsible for what success the Cards had. The 11-2 run 2011-2012. Yeah I know the defense was overrated and all those players are easily replaceable.

Adub and Rhodes were the talent losses. I'll add Toler but he didn't contribute much the past couple of seasons due to injury. Lenon was solid and a team leader but definitely upgradable.

Meanwhile, Levi Brown, Colledge, and Sendlein, all the WRs other than Doucet, all the TEs, and Lindley are still around. The guys who were responsible along with Kolb and Skelton for the long losing streaks. The linemen are still here because Arians knows it was Grimm that was the problem. It's why we have so many offensive line coaches.

As you stated earlier the biggest issue is with the QB position. Heard that BA wanted Grimm as his Oline coach when he was interviewing for the HC position with other teams. BA has increased the number of assistant coaches so adding an Oline coach isn't shocking.

It was the offensive coaching and QB play period. I don't know why so many try to justify the turnover by claiming we had a roster full of terrible talent.

I'll go with mostly the QB play and not as much the offensive coaching. The inability to find a decent QB who could stay healthy is what killed the Whiz regime.

It's a shame because Horton and the D was getting crazy good but we would have seen Adub and Lenon move on even if Horton had stayed.

 

[Duckjake]

As you stated earlier the biggest issue is with the QB position. Heard that BA wanted Grimm as his Oline coach when he was interviewing for the HC position with other teams. BA has increased the number of assistant coaches so adding an Oline coach isn't shocking.

I don't know about that BA/Grimm rumor but if it is true then I have lost a lot of respect for Arians ability to evaluate assistant coaches. Grimm? You've got to be kidding me?

Arians didn't just add one assistant Offensive line coach. He also added a lifetime Offensive line coach as his in name only OC. We had one now we have three. Or do we? Who is our offensive line coach? I know Zierlein is listed as Asst Offensive line coach.

 

[52brandon]

I don't know about that BA/Grimm rumor but if it is true then I have lost a lot of respect for Arians ability to evaluate assistant coaches. Grimm? You've got to be kidding me?

Arians didn't just add one assistant Offensive line coach. He also added a lifetime Offensive line coach as his in name only OC. We had one now we have three. Or do we? Who is our offensive line coach? I know Zierlein is listed as Asst Offensive line coach.

I don't like Grimm. But if his coaching was a big part of the Massie turnaround last season, I actually wouldn't mind him on staff this season. As long as there's still a few coaches working on the line, I wouldn't mind him being one, if only for the fact that he (again, if he did in fact do it) turned a 4th round RT into one of the best in the NFL in one season. Maybe he does know how to coach and it took until last year for Whiz to stop forcing him to coach one way. Couldn't say. But I can't argue with results on the field. Either way. With our line being the worst, year after year. Or with a 4th rd RT going from 2nd worst to 3rd best in the NFL over the course of only one season is pretty amazing

 

[Duckjake]

I don't like Grimm. But if his coaching was a big part of the Massie turnaround last season, I actually wouldn't mind him on staff this season. As long as there's still a few coaches working on the line, I wouldn't mind him being one, if only for the fact that he (again, if he did in fact do it) turned a 4th round RT into one of the best in the NFL in one season. Maybe he does know how to coach and it took until last year for Whiz to stop forcing him to coach one way. Couldn't say. But I can't argue with results on the field. Either way. With our line being the worst, year after year. Or with a 4th rd RT going from 2nd worst to 3rd best in the NFL over the course of only one season is pretty amazing

One guy who appears to be an excellent athlete out of 20 or so linemen is not a ringing endorsement of an offensive line coach. Especially when the blocking schemes were terrible every year and he couldn't identify a decent Guard in 6 years.

Anyway to claim that Massie is one of the top 3 RTs in the NFL based on half a season is a real stretch no matter whose stats you are using.

 

[52brandon]

One guy who appears to be an excellent athlete out of 20 or so linemen is not a ringing endorsement of an offensive line coach. Especially when the blocking schemes were terrible every year and he couldn't identify a decent Guard in 6 years.

Anyway to claim that Massie is one of the top 3 RTs in the NFL based on half a season is a real stretch no matter whose stats you are using.

profootballfocus, the only place with lineman stats. But I do agree. For the vast majority, his line has been awful. But I definitely appreciate the improvement in Massie

 

[Duckjake]

profootballfocus, the only place with lineman stats. But I do agree. For the vast majority, his line has been awful. But I definitely appreciate the improvement in Massie

I think Massie is the most athletic player we've had at Tackle in years. Watching the replays he gets set into proper pass protection mode better and more quickly than anyone I've seen on the Cardinals line in years. And that includes my homie Leonard Davis who was a pretty darn good RT.

He also looks good on run plays but it is so hard to tell because the plays were so weird as to who was supposed to block which defender and we were down to our 3rd and 4th RBs who together I don't think weighed as much as Beanie.

We absolutely sucked running the football the last half of the season.

 

[Cardiac]

The first year or two many fans were worried that Grimm would get a HC job and leave us based on the job he was doing as the Oline coach.

Then KW retires and everybody wants his head on a platter.

I'm glad he was replaced at this point but he probably isn't the total suckage that many think he is.

Since he is unemployed at this point I think he is not perceived by the league so highly at this point. I hope that is the case and the new Oline coaches can take this group to a much higher level.

 

[52brandon]

The first year or two many fans were worried that Grimm would get a HC job and leave us based on the job he was doing as the Oline coach.

Then KW retires and everybody wants his head on a platter.

I'm glad he was replaced at this point but he probably isn't the total suckage that many think he is.

Since he is unemployed at this point I think he is not perceived by the league so highly at this point. I hope that is the case and the new Oline coaches can take this group to a much higher level.

that's about my thoughts. I guess we'll never know who deserved credit/blame now. Since for the first time since Warner, we have a good QB again, but Grimm isn't here this time to see if his line could keep him upright

 

[Duckjake]

The first year or two many fans were worried that Grimm would get a HC job and leave us based on the job he was doing as the Oline coach.

Then KW retires and everybody wants his head on a platter.

I'm glad he was replaced at this point but he probably isn't the total suckage that many think he is.

Since he is unemployed at this point I think he is not perceived by the league so highly at this point. I hope that is the case and the new Oline coaches can take this group to a much higher level.

Not me. I've been on Grimm's case for a long time. Of course almost everyone loved all the coaches 2007-2009 no matter how bad they were.

But the Warner retiring remark has no basis in fact. If you wrote that the line was fine until they started messing with it in 2010 and they should have kept Lutui at G and Levi at RT, posters would cite chapter and verse as to how many times Warner was getting knocked down though not sacked. And that the two time NFC West Championship Oline was way overrated looking good only because Warner could get the ball out so quickly.

Grimm was simply a bad offensive line coach.

 

[HotSauce]

Anybody know how many Cardinals offensive linemen have gone elsewhere and had success the past 6 years?