Googs to Utah before deadline rumor

slinslin

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Gambo reported that this is the rumored deal but Utah wants to wait until the deadline for some reason.

Suns trade

Gugliotta
3.000.000$ Cash
Cavs conditional first round pick

for

Keon Clark

---------

Keon Clark makes 5.000.000$
Gugliotta makes almost 12.000.000$

So the Suns would save 7M$ this season plus the luxury tax savings.

3M$ go to Jazz and the Jazz get the conditional Cavs pick.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

It won't affect our cap situation in the offseason because Googs would be FA anyway.

Throw Jacobsen in this deal. I guess they are counting on Charlotte taking White or Eisley or both.
 

SweetD

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I would like to see Clark here in PHX I was hopping to get him when he was a free agent. Not sure if this deal is going to happen becouse of BC word of "I will not trade you Googs" I would rather they send Howard and cash to Utah and no pick.
 

Krangodnzr

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Discount anything Gambo says. He is literally the worst valley sports guy, and he has next no credibility.
 

Wally

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Originally posted by slinslin
Gambo reported that this is the rumored deal but Utah wants to wait until the deadline for some reason.

Suns trade

Gugliotta
3.000.000$ Cash
Cavs conditional first round pick

for

Keon Clark

---------

Keon Clark makes 5.000.000$
Gugliotta makes almost 12.000.000$

So the Suns would save 7M$ this season plus the luxury tax savings.

3M$ go to Jazz and the Jazz get the conditional Cavs pick.

Sounds pretty reasonable.

It won't affect our cap situation in the offseason because Googs would be FA anyway.

Throw Jacobsen in this deal. I guess they are counting on Charlotte taking White or Eisley or both.

Seems like this would give a 4M$ value to the Cavs pick. I'd rather make a deal with the Bobcats with Eisley. Isn't Googs gone after this year anyway? Why make any trade since Clark is a FA this summer?:confused: I guess I don't understand Googs contract.
 

elindholm

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Isn't Googs gone after this year anyway? Why make any trade since Clark is a FA this summer? I guess I don't understand Googs contract.

You understand it fine. The trade would be just to save a pile of money this season.
 
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slinslin

slinslin

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They were also talking about waiving Clark right away.

Because he got busted for marijuana and stuff like that and would hurt their chances at a high lottery pick.
Maybe they are right but the Suns could also just stash him on the injured list.
 

zett

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Originally posted by slinslin

Throw Jacobsen in this deal. I guess they are counting on Charlotte taking White or Eisley or both.

A team can only lose 1 player in the expansion draft....
 

sunsfn

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Googs has a trade kicker in his contract.
I guess part of the 3 mil is for that.

Anyone know anything about the trade kicker other than
Googs gets it on top of the 12 mil?

He actually should be happy if the suns trade him.

:D
 

SweetD

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I would also think he would get more playing time. I would like to see Googs go and save some money and get under the cap, but I would much rather try to move Howard who has a longer contract. How far are we over the cap anyways?
 

SweetD

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Right now PHX is at $59,349,699 this year.

NEW YORK, July 15 -- The National Basketball Association today announced that the Salary Cap for the 2003-04 season will be $43.84 million

So PHX is 15.5mil over the cap

trading a Googs at 11.6mil would still put us over the limit but would save 11.6mil in NBA TAX.
 

SweetD

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So if the Cap is raised by the same 9% as last year that would put the cap at 47.78 million.

The Suns will be at 33.85 million
plus Rookie Pool of 3.8 (estamate)

So that would give us 10.13 Million if we can move 5mil in White or Howard we will in a very good position.
 

jbeecham

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If the Suns make this trade then they will get under the luxury tax limit (if it kicks in) and they'll save probably about $3 million in luxury tax payments. Is the Cavs conditional 1st rd pick really worth $3 million in luxury tax payments + the difference between paying Googs for 2 months - paying Clark for 2 months (about $2.8 Million if I'm calculating correctly)? So we'd be giving up a forever lottery protected pick for about $5.8 million in savings and possibly getting money back for being under the luxury tax limit. I hope this made some sense.
 

JerkFace

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Discount anything Gambo says. He is literally the worst valley sports guy, and he has next no credibility.

i don't agree with alot of stuff gambo says but the guy has contacts, if he says they're talking then they probably are.
 

newfan101

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Originally posted by SweetD
Right now PHX is at $59,349,699 this year.

NEW YORK, July 15 -- The National Basketball Association today announced that the Salary Cap for the 2003-04 season will be $43.84 million

So PHX is 15.5mil over the cap

trading a Googs at 11.6mil would still put us over the limit but would save 11.6mil in NBA TAX.

A few things:

1. That figure isn't accurate, because it doesn't figure in Charlie Ward's paid salary up to the time of the buyout. The actual salary is closer to 62 million.

2. The salary cap is not figured in when determining luxury tax. That's an entirely different number. The tax threshold I believe was set at approximately 55 million. So technically the Suns are around 7 million above the tax.

3. While I'm sure I'm off by a few hundred thousand here and there with regards to those numbers, if the Suns were to trade Googs for Keon Clark it would only knock 6.6 million off their cap, which could still put them over the tax threshold. At the very least it's a little too close for comfort. That's why I still believe if the Suns make that deal it will involve Casey, whose 1 million salary would insure that they're under the tax threshold.
 

newfan101

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Originally posted by slinslin


Keon Clark makes 5.000.000$
Gugliotta makes almost 12.000.000$

So the Suns would save 7M$ this season plus the luxury tax savings.


They actually wouldn't save 7 million in salary. Since the trade will be made at the deadline, the Suns will have already paid Googs approximately 8 million in salary. They would save 3.6 million in his remaining salary. However, they would still owe Clarks remaining salary, which would be about 1.6 million, and they would pay 3 million in cash to Utah. So technically, they would lose about 1 million in the deal. They would save 7 million in luxury taxes, and would receive the pooled money from the tax payers, which could probably be better explained by capologist.

This risk with this trade is that if the tax doesn't kick in, the Suns will lose a 1st round pick and 1 million bucks. All for nothing.
 
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JCSunsfan

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If Gambo has gotten it from some sources, there is probably something to it. Its his opinions that are crap.

Its a good deal and I would be happy with it. Isn't Clark injured? Its a safe bet he would never play with us.

I could see Utah wanting Casey, but we need guards right now. If there are negotiations, its probably over something like that.
 

capologist

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OK, near as I can figure, as of the trade deadline, Googs will have $3.42M remaining on his contract, and Clark will have about $1.46M.

The trade kicks Googs’s salary up by 15%, so Utah ends up having to pay him $3.94M. But they get rid of the $1.46M obligation to Clark and they get $3M in cash. So, in all, they make a profit of about a half a million dollars.

For our part, our team salary, for luxury tax purposes, drops by $6.7M, so we save $6.7M in luxury taxes. We also get rid of the $3.42M remaining on Googs’s contract. But we take on $1.46M on Clark’s contract and pay $3M. So, in all, we make about $5.66M on the deal.

In short, the deal makes sense for both teams. But it does not make any sense to include a first-round pick in the deal. That pick is worth far more than $5.66M.
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by capologist
OK, near as I can figure, as of the trade deadline, Googs will have $3.42M remaining on his contract, and Clark will have about $1.46M.

The trade kicks Googs’s salary up by 15%, so Utah ends up having to pay him $3.94M. But they get rid of the $1.46M obligation to Clark and they get $3M in cash. So, in all, they make a profit of about a half a million dollars.

For our part, our team salary, for luxury tax purposes, drops by $6.7M, so we save $6.7M in luxury taxes. We also get rid of the $3.42M remaining on Googs’s contract. But we take on $1.46M on Clark’s contract and pay $3M. So, in all, we make about $5.66M on the deal.

In short, the deal makes sense for both teams. But it does not make any sense to include a first-round pick in the deal. That pick is worth far more than $5.66M.

I guess that depends on who you talk to. At best that is going to be a 17th pick. Also, wouldn't this trade take the Phoenix Suns under the luxury tax limit, so they would be eligible for the luxury tax distribution?

I don't necessarily disagree that it is too much to give up. I guess my biggest problem with trades like this is that I don't believe we know for a certainty that there really will be a luxury tax this season. Do we? We also don't know exactly how the funds will be distributed. If there is a luxury tax no one knows exactly what the limit will be on it.

Joe Mama
 

schutd

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Originally posted by George O'Brien
I would be very upset if they gave up a first round pick just to save some luxury tax.

I dont know that I would. Mid first round picks dont ever really amount to being the guy who outs you over the hump, and damn, Wes Person has been on three teams since we traded for that pick. We might never see it.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by offset
i don't agree with alot of stuff gambo says but the guy has contacts, if he says they're talking then they probably are.

His sources are generally espn.com or sportingnews.com.

He is wrong so often, it's laughable.
 

capologist

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Originally posted by Joe Mama
That pick is worth far more than $5.66M.
I guess that depends on who you talk to. At best that is going to be a 17th pick.
Even a 17th pick is worth far more than $5.66M, as long as you’re making decent picks, which the Suns almost always do. With the 17th pick in the 2003 draft, we took Zarko Cabarkapa, whose rookie contract gives him to us for four seasons at a total of $6.10M. If we had not drafted him, do you think we could get a player of comparable quality for four seasons at total less than $11.76M? (That would be a four-year contract with 10% annual increases starting at $2.56M.) If not, then Zarko’s rookie scale contract saves us at least $5.66M.


Also, wouldn't this trade take the Phoenix Suns under the luxury tax limit, so they would be eligible for the luxury tax distribution?
As far as I know, there is no publically available information that describes how the luxury tax funds are distributed. I’ll try to research this matter, but in the meantime, we’ll have to guess.

Some columnists like to operate from the assumption that the tax is distributed to the teams under the tax threshhold. They therefore conclude that the difference between being $1 over the tax threshhold and $1 under the tax threshhold is about $11M. I do not believe that this is how it actually works. In fact, I’m pretty sure that it does not. The difference between being just under and just over the threshhold is small.

Back when we signed Dan Majerle for his final season, Bryan Colangelo mentioned in an interview that this signing brought us from just under the projected tax threshhold to just over it. He said therefore that we would be paying a little luxury tax on Majerle, but that Majerle was worth it. I think it’s quite reasonable to assume that the team would not have made that signing if it could have cost the organization an $11M+ distribution in addition to his salary and the tax thereon. The guy wasn’t worth that much.

There have been numerous other examples of teams near the threshhold signing irrelevant journeymen to warm the end of the bench. Not knowing the exact amount of the threshhold (which is calculated at the end of the season, based on revenue during the season), teams make such signings knowing that there is a significant possibility that the signing will bump the team salary from slightly under the threshhold to slightly over it. Teams would surely not make such a move knowing that such a small change in payroll could cost the team an eight-figure luxury tax distribution.

I suspect that the impact of a small difference in payroll is small. The difference between being $1 under the threshhold and $1 over the threshhold is $2 in salary, plus $1 in taxes. There may also be an impact on tax distributions, but I’m confident that if it does impact tax distributions, that impact is somewhat in line with the magnitude of the change in team salary. Thus a $2 change in team salary may cost the team more than $3, but it surely does not cost it $11M. Maybe $3.50 at most.
 

George O'Brien

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Originally posted by capologist
[
I suspect that the impact of a small difference in payroll is small. The difference between being $1 under the threshhold and $1 over the threshhold is $2 in salary, plus $1 in taxes. There may also be an impact on tax distributions, but I’m confident that if it does impact tax distributions, that impact is somewhat in line with the magnitude of the change in team salary. Thus a $2 change in team salary may cost the team more than $3, but it surely does not cost it $11M. Maybe $3.50 at most. [/B]

That was always my understanding. Once they hit the luxury tax, then it $1 tax for every $1 over the threshhold.
 
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