Goran Dragic will be a top 5 point guard in the NBA...

Chaplin

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I like the pick, especially late in the second round, but Chap it would be very easy for us never to see him in a Phoenix Suns uniform. This isn't the old days European basketball, where for the most part minimal money in the NBA was much better. If this guy has a breakout year for Tau Ceramica it's very possible he could get offered a big contract over there. They have the money to give him.

Joe

The guy was working out with the national team, gets a phone call to get on a plane, travels 15 hours for a private workout in Phoenix. Seems like he might be a little bit more motivated than, say, Milos Vujanic. If the Suns really want him, they'll get him.
 

Joe Mama

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I hope you guys are right. I'm just saying it's not the slam dunk you might think it is. More money (at least on his first contract ), staying in Europe, and a much easier schedule might appeal to both him and his agent.

Joe
 

Chaplin

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I hope you guys are right. I'm just saying it's not the slam dunk you might think it is. More money (at least on his first contract ), staying in Europe, and a much easier schedule might appeal to both him and his agent.

Joe

Then why bother putting your name in the draft at all? It's not like he didn't have a contract before yesterday, right?
 

tobiazz

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and i dont understand how you say "many of the moves he made would never work in the NBA" how do you know? not saying they would but hes never played against nba talent. youve probably seen 10 minutes worth of footage on him, definitely not enough time to say wether his moves would work or not.

Because he was taking shots near the hoop against Euros with no jumping ability whatsoever, in the clips I watched. He'll have to more shots further from the basket in the NBA. I also watched as his team choked away a seven point lead in the final minute or two, but I don't think it was his fault.

I'm not saying he can't be decent starter, but it's a long shot based on his current production and ability. If he is even a solid backup I will be ecstatic and it will have been a good pick.
 

tobiazz

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And Steve Nash was doing very little. He struggled at Dallas that first year or two. Chauncy Billups was in the league a long time before he started to do something. Every player develops at his own rate.

You are helping me prove my point. Even those slow developers you mention had far better PG-relevant stats than Dragic does. The front office likes him, so that's good, but it doesn't explain his *terrible* assist-to-turnover rate and pedestrian FT% and amount of steals.

He has tools to become a pretty good player, which is great for a 2nd round pick. However, to assume he will be good or to compare him to any player like Nash would be ridiculous. He's a longshot. If he wasn't, he would have been a first round pick. Players can bloom late, but why should one assume Dragic will?
 

Joe Mama

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You are helping me prove my point. Even those slow developers you mention had far better PG-relevant stats than Dragic does. The front office likes him, so that's good, but it doesn't explain his *terrible* assist-to-turnover rate and pedestrian FT% and amount of steals.

He has tools to become a pretty good player, which is great for a 2nd round pick. However, to assume he will be good or to compare him to any player like Nash would be ridiculous. He's a longshot. If he wasn't, he would have been a first round pick. Players can bloom late, but why should one assume Dragic will?

You just can't compare assist statistics from European basketball to the NBA. If the European statisticians were doing the Phoenix Suns games Steve Nash would be lucky to average 5-6 assists per game. His shooting on the other hand definitely needs improvement.

Joe Mama
 

JCSunsfan

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You are helping me prove my point. Even those slow developers you mention had far better PG-relevant stats than Dragic does. The front office likes him, so that's good, but it doesn't explain his *terrible* assist-to-turnover rate and pedestrian FT% and amount of steals

Euro stat keepers are notoriously stingy with assists. The stats just don't translate.

Our FO and scouts know that a good pg looks like. They have been staring at Steve Nash for years. They have also scouted this guy extensively in Europe and brought him in for workouts. THEY are the ones that speaking of him as an heir apparent to Nash. That is more optimistic talk than I have heard them use on any pg in years. For me, it makes me want to get peek at this kid.
 

tobiazz

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You just can't compare assist statistics from European basketball to the NBA. If the European statisticians were doing the Phoenix Suns games Steve Nash would be lucky to average 5-6 assists per game. His shooting on the other hand definitely needs improvement.

Joe Mama

ok, that's good news. But even if you doubled his assists, the A:TO ratio is only average, haha.
 

Covert Rain

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I will give Dragic this. The Suns coveted him more highly then Lopez. Griffith said that if they knew he could play this year, they would have drafted him over Lopez.

I think that also shows that Lopez wasn't the guy they wanted all along. He just happened to be the highest player on the Suns draft board still available.
 

tobiazz

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Euro stat keepers are notoriously stingy with assists. The stats just don't translate.

Our FO and scouts know that a good pg looks like. They have been staring at Steve Nash for years. They have also scouted this guy extensively in Europe and brought him in for workouts. THEY are the ones that speaking of him as an heir apparent to Nash. That is more optimistic talk than I have heard them use on any pg in years. For me, it makes me want to get peek at this kid.

I would normally be excited by what the FO says but Kerr is the one who said Marks would surprise people or something stupid like that.
 

tobiazz

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I will give Dragic this. The Suns coveted him more highly then Lopez. Griffith said that if they knew he could play this year, they would have drafted him over Lopez.

I think that also shows that Lopez wasn't the guy they wanted all along. He just happened to be the highest player on the Suns draft board still available.

I believe someone posted that Lopez was above Randolph and Rush on their list.
 

Treesquid PhD

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I would normally be excited by what the FO says but Kerr is the one who said Marks would surprise people or something stupid like that.

There is a huge difference, Porter is Kerr's puppet. He didn't say a damn word in the video and when they had a quick pow wow, it was Griff, Kerr and Cabo Dick IN PORTER'S OFFICE!

Kerr is clearly in control and the face of the franchise. Watch the video it's striking how in control Kerr is. If Kerr says the guy is going to play then I believe that he will.
 

Covert Rain

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I believe someone posted that Lopez was above Randolph and Rush on their list.

Yes but Dragic at #15 over all those guys if he could have played this year???? The Suns know something that the other teams don't? The guy lasted for 48 picks. If this guys ends up being worthy of a #15 pick but we got him at #48....I will never doubt Kerr again.
 

CardsFan88

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I like the pick. You couldn't really judge his overall top speed in the video since he was pretty much getting the ball at 20 feet or less from the basket and they were using only half the court.

I agree his shot was better than advertised, I only saw one shot be missed, and that's pretty good for a guy who supposedly couldn't shoot. If he can shoot a 15 foot jumper to break the defense down, it should open things up for him to dish it to his teammates. Now of course most of the time people weren't guarding him, but overall I don't feel he is a bad shooter. Maybe he made a few bad shooting decisions, or was consistently shooting out of his range, but for midrange shots it seems he has NBA adequate skills.

He seems to have good body control, and has a quick and fluid spin move. I liked that fact they were having him drive up, stop, and shoot, rather than just get comfortable shooting jumpers from a set spot without movement. The fact he was knocking down those shots with ease shows me that he isn't a set shooter, I.E. can only shoot when completely set. Also shows imo what he can do when running the fast break if they are just going to give him that shot rather than trying to double team him and leaving a guy open.

When we look at the AST/TO ratio, don't forget they count assists weird in Europe. So his stats might seem like he sucks there, but it IS possible, that if assists were counted like NBA, it could be the equivalent of 9/2.5 versus what ~3.2/2.5.

We'll have to wait and see if that's the case. But I like what I saw.

I applaud them for moving up, but I still wonder if an extra million or so, (1st round picks can garner 3 mill max)..maybe they could have traded for his rights without giving up a 2nd round pick next year (which I believe I read is GS's pick owed to us).

Also when watching that video, he did it after he said 15 hour plane trip. It very well might be the equivalent of playing sometime between 10pm-6am for him.

I believe they will try to coax his team into a buyout. I believe unless the rules have changed, it's a 250k max buyout? Didn't we do that for Jake Suckalotis? But he wants to be here, and if not this year, definitely next he'll be here.

I'd like to see more video of him, but overall I like what I see, and do see some things which might just get me excited about him.

It really appears to me that this years draft along with last years and a pretty good 2006 draft class is pushing the NBA to a higher competitive level. Teams that were good that don't add anything, will suffer as their good team is harder pressed to play as well against the young prospects that are stronger, faster, and more talented than their counterparts from earlier years.

Teams that stockpiled talent in these drafts should fare pretty well. (like portland) There were some pretty suspect drafts earlier this decade and last decade post jordan bulls era. I look around the league and there are alot of insanely quick and talented players/teams that have started their rise.

Ebb and flow go the drafts. Maybe next years will be better, or maybe the NBA will go through a 2-3-5 year slump in talent through the draft. I'm glad we got two guys that I believe talent wise looking back people will think should have gone alot higher.

As much as I have hated their approach, $arver and Kerr, I believe got two players who could be major factors in the coming decade. Any draft that produces that has to be considered a success. Maybe not perfect, but a success.

$arver may still be cheap, but they made the right calls imo from where they picked, and I'll take that. So I'll give a thumbs up that they didn't screw up the draft, or trade/sell away the picks. We needed a youth infusion now. We got at least one coming this year, and it'll be needed, if we can get Dragic over here this year, that youth should contribute faster.

$arver and Kerr gets a pass from me on this one, and that probably makes me as happy as the fact they drafted these two guys.
 

Treesquid PhD

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Yes but Dragic at #15 over all those guys if he could have played this year???? The Suns know something that the other teams don't? The guy lasted for 48 picks. If this guys ends up being worthy of a #15 pick but we got him at #48....I will never doubt Kerr again.

Gambo said that but again after watching the video I don't buy it, Kerr kept them on the process the whole time and spoke about the "red line" on the draft board. I seriously doubt the Suns would have picked him at 15, it's more likely they would have moved back and parlayed that pick into another or at least I hope so. Considering that the phones were ringing off the hook they would have backed into something better than Dragic at 15.
 

Mainstreet

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I like the pick, especially late in the second round, but Chap it would be very easy for us never to see him in a Phoenix Suns uniform. This isn't the old days European basketball, where for the most part minimal money in the NBA was much better. If this guy has a breakout year for Tau Ceramica it's very possible he could get offered a big contract over there. They have the money to give him.

Joe

Even so, I would rather see the Suns gamble in the second round on a potential high yield player rather than just play it safe.
 

Chaplin

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You are helping me prove my point. Even those slow developers you mention had far better PG-relevant stats than Dragic does. The front office likes him, so that's good, but it doesn't explain his *terrible* assist-to-turnover rate and pedestrian FT% and amount of steals.

He has tools to become a pretty good player, which is great for a 2nd round pick. However, to assume he will be good or to compare him to any player like Nash would be ridiculous. He's a longshot. If he wasn't, he would have been a first round pick. Players can bloom late, but why should one assume Dragic will?

Don't know if this is true or not, the Suns front office has said that if the buyout hadn't been an issue, he most likely WOULD have been a first rounder. According to Kerr, Dragic has been coveted by several teams, including those before and after their #48.
 

Joe Mama

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I was just helping one of our Croatian loggers with some software issues and took the opportunity to ask him a few questions. I don't think you would mind at all that I'm posting our conversation. It's funny because I was thinking myself last night met with the size, athleticism, shooting issues, and need for improvement in dribbling that this kid sounds like somebody we already have. That's DJ Strawberry. What's funnier is that if I recall correctly the Phoenix Suns were saying almost the exact same things about him last year. They thought he was worth a late first-round draft pick. They were trying to move up in the second round to get him all night. They were all very excited he fell to them.

Joe

Q: how much do top euro players make per season?

A: Most paid player in Europe makes 4,2 million euros net. Which is like 12 million $ contract in NBA considering all the taxes. The team pays all the taxes for player. Salaries is Europe are rising in recent years by a large percent. CSKA Moscow has bigger budget than several NBA teams

Q: Let me ask you specifically about dragic, whom the Phoenix Suns drafted last night. If he had a great year with Tau Ceramica next season what's the most they would offer him?

A: Around 1,5-2 million euros per season i guess, which is like whole MLE in NBA terms. But i think Dragic will come over if Suns show interest for him. Tau Ceramica brought new PG Marcelinho Huertas, who will probably get more playing time than Dragic. There is also Argentinian veteran PG Pablo Prigioni, so Dragic is basiclly 3rd sting PG. Dragic`s game is more NBA friendly, as he has good quickness, lenght and is tenacious. If he develops consistent jumpshot, he could be very good backup PG in NBA or fringe starter.

He is somewhat similar to D.J. Strawberry, perhaps a bit more advanced at the offensive end.
 
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Bayless2Budinger

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People that are saying "if he was really that good,he would have went in teh first round" do not understand Euroball. There are a couple euros that drop out of the 1st round every year because of there contract situations. No one wants to have a situation like the Magic did a few years ago with Fran Vazquez.
 

tobiazz

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Q: how much do top euro players make per season?

A: Most paid player in Europe makes 4,2 million euros net. Which is like 12 million $ contract in NBA considering all the taxes. The team pays all the taxes for player. Salaries is Europe are rising in recent years by a large percent. CSKA Moscow has bigger budget than several NBA teams

Q: Let me ask you specifically about dragic, whom the Phoenix Suns drafted last night. If he had a great year with Tau Ceramica next season what's the most they would offer him?

A: Around 1,5-2 million euros per season i guess, which is like whole MLE in NBA terms. But i think Dragic will come over if Suns show interest for him. Tau Ceramica brought new PG Marcelinho Huertas, who will probably get more playing time than Dragic. There is also Argentinian veteran PG Pablo Prigioni, so Dragic is basiclly 3rd sting PG. Dragic`s game is more NBA friendly, as he has good quickness, lenght and is tenacious. If he develops consistent jumpshot, he could be very good backup PG in NBA or fringe starter.

He is somewhat similar to D.J. Strawberry, perhaps a bit more advanced at the offensive end.

That sounds like the most reasonable description of the scenario.
 

sunsallday

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Dragic could of been selected in the first round by the Suns, as they viewed him as the second best PG after Rose after they watched him in Europe. However, according to Kerr, because Goran didn't have a buyout in his contract with Tau Ceramica until next year, he wasn't projected to go in the first round. So the Suns were amazed by his skills apparently and he commented on how he loved Steve Nash.

Here is a link

http://suns.marqui.com/blog/suns01_06270802.aspx
 
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