Gortat/Lopez update

Mainstreet

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The way I look at it now, the Suns might have been better off trading Gortat when he may have had more trade value and kept Lopez (without much risk) as the starting center. The last two years of Lopez' contract are a team option with the Hornets. I was all for keeping Gortat but I'm not so sure Gortat is light years ahead of him as a player plus Lopez has more room for improvement since he is younger. Of course all this is said in hindsight. I was happy as many to see Lopez go and get a first round draft pick in return. However, Blanks is supposed to know this stuff and the wisdom of signing a player like Beasley.
 

Chaplin

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I'm torn between calling that nonsense and agreeing with you. It's hard to really tell what his level is. Earlier this season he was playing incredible defense, both man and help, and his offense was solid if unspectacular. But since then, his defense has dropped off to slightly above average and his offense has been very inconsistent. If he's capable of playing at his peak level, he's an all star caliber center. I just don't know how to get him to play at that level nightly and when he's not playing at that level, he's a dime a dozen player.

Steve

Do you put any blame, even 5%, on Gentry's (lack of) solidified rotations?
 

Chaplin

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The way I look at it now, the Suns might have been better off trading Gortat when he may have had more trade value and kept Lopez (without much risk) as the starting center. The last two years of Lopez' contract are a team option with the Hornets. I was all for keeping Gortat but I'm not so sure Gortat is light years ahead of him as a player plus Lopez has more room for improvement since he is younger. Of course all this is said in hindsight. I was happy as many to see Lopez go and get a first round draft pick in return. However, Blanks is supposed to know this stuff and the wisdom of signing a player like Beasley.

Blanks is exactly that--Blank. The guy is proving that he has no business running a team.
 

AzStevenCal

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Do you put any blame, even 5%, on Gentry's (lack of) solidified rotations?

No, I don't but I really don't accept that as an excuse for anyone but the really inexperienced young players and the aged veterans. I'm not positive I'm right about that but I've always just viewed it as an excuse. Anyway, in Gortat's case his minutes were pretty solidified at least until Jermaine became available and Marcin went south before that. I'm really mystified about Gortat's up and down play, I have no answers.

Steve
 

Chaplin

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No, I don't but I really don't accept that as an excuse for anyone but the really inexperienced young players and the aged veterans. I'm not positive I'm right about that but I've always just viewed it as an excuse. Anyway, in Gortat's case his minutes were pretty solidified at least until Jermaine became available and Marcin went south before that. I'm really mystified about Gortat's up and down play, I have no answers.

Steve

I'm pretty much in agreement, but the very fact that there are no answers to this dilemma says to me that we can't really discount anything. Is he that sensitive that even the unorganized rotations affect his play? Who knows? But it may be a possible contributor to it, however small.
 

Phrazbit

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Do you put any blame, even 5%, on Gentry's (lack of) solidified rotations?

I think if we were using solidified rotations then we'd still be seeking our 3rd or 4th win. We have no consistent scoring options and a lot of abysmal defenders. Gentry has to be flexible and willing to form some different looks from night to night if we want to be remotely competitive.
 

Chaplin

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I think if we were using solidified rotations then we'd still be seeking our 3rd or 4th win. We have no consistent scoring options and a lot of abysmal defenders. Gentry has to be flexible and willing to form some different looks from night to night if we want to be remotely competitive.

We have abysmal defenders now, so I don't see how that is any different. Same with consistent scoring options. But Gentry tinkers so much--not just the starting lineup, but in the 4th quarter, where he doesn't seem to know what to do at all, let alone coach the team. This is a coach that hasn't needed to do strong coaching until this year because he already had a coach on the court. And his deficiencies are woefully exposed.
 

Cheesebeef

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He is playing with new group of guys and new plays. He is not happy and the offense isn't going through him. I would expect his numbers to be down. By the way, he is only off 3.7 points from last year and 1.7 rebounds per game. WOW...huge difference.

i gotta say, a 4 point differential in scoring and a 2 rebound deficit there are a pretty big difference from year to year. it definitely shows less effectiveness at worst on the offensive end.
 

BC867

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i gotta say, a 4 point differential in scoring and a 2 rebound deficit there are a pretty big difference from year to year. it definitely shows less effectiveness at worst on the offensive end.
Despite being a Gortat fan since he arrived, I suggest that, rather than simply comparing his performance this season to last, it should be compared to the steady development curve we expected this season (even with Nash gone).

Unfortunately, that results in an even larger disappointment.

My biggest disappointment is how Marcin didn't come to life when Scola (who was crowding him under the basket) was moved to the 2nd unit.
 

Phrazbit

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We have abysmal defenders now, so I don't see how that is any different. Same with consistent scoring options. But Gentry tinkers so much--not just the starting lineup, but in the 4th quarter, where he doesn't seem to know what to do at all, let alone coach the team. This is a coach that hasn't needed to do strong coaching until this year because he already had a coach on the court. And his deficiencies are woefully exposed.

I dont think Gentry is a brilliant coach, but I dont have a problem with his 4th quarter tinkering. We have largely played better in the 4th than we have in any other quarter because by then he has been able to sort out who is sucking on that night and which players have a pulse.

Maybe Gentry made a decision that if done differently we would have won one or 2 more games, but at the same time his creative use of the bench late in games has resulted in the majority of our wins on the year. I think its a really tough team to coach. You have no idea who is going to play well from night to night and none of your guys are clearly standing out above the player behind them on the depth chart. It requires a ton of juggling and puts him in a position that no matter what he does he is getting 2nd guessed.
 

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It's a drop for sure but it's not like he dropped off the face of the earth and it definitely doesn't support the point that all of Gorats points are scored because of Nash. He is still averaging double digits in scoring and currently only 11 guys are averaging more rebounds. Only 4 Centers are averaging more blocks. He is 13th in the NBA at an eff of 17.3 to Lopez at 19th at 14.8.

This much we know for sure. Put Gortat around good players he can score. He can rebound and he can defend. The only thing Robin as proved is that he can score at a better clip with the group of guys he is around. He will never be a good rebounder. Period. That is one of his main jobs.

At the end of the day this is really about without Nash which player is better. There still is no doubt it's Gortat.
 
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Cheesebeef

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It's a drop for sure but it's not like he dropped off the face of the earth and it definitely doesn't support the point that all of Gorats points are scored because of Nash. He is still averaging double digits in scoring and currently only 11 guys are averaging more rebounds.

wha? he's ranked 26th in rebounding. and his scoring has been steadily going down since a hot start to the season.

This much we know for sure. Put Gortat around good players he can score.

put Gortat around Nash and he can score... but the same could be said of Boris Diaw... and a lot of guys who played with Nash.
 

Mainstreet

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Blanks is exactly that--Blank. The guy is proving that he has no business running a team.

Exactly. The problem with Blanks, he does not have an eye for evaluating talent which is supposed to be his job for the Suns as GM. Babby seemingly does the job of most other GMs in the NBA. What a mess.
 

Covert Rain

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wha? he's ranked 26th in rebounding. and his scoring has been steadily going down since a hot start to the season.

All of my stats have been amongst Centers. Why would I compare him to another position he doesn't play? Also, his average took a hit with 3 not so great outings but hit 7 & 10 his last 2. He needs a few more great outings and he will be at 9 RPG. The question is can he reach double digits with this team and with his perceived attitude right now? IMO, his rebounding drop is all Gortat.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/13/6/reb/1-1

Also, Gortat is #11 at his position in double doubles and one spot out of the top 10 which I bet he breaks into again this season. Robin? 25th.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/double-doubles/sort/doubleDouble/position/centers

put Gortat around Nash and he can score... but the same could be said of Boris Diaw... and a lot of guys who played with Nash.

Right but that is not what Slinslin was saying all last season. He said Gortat couldn't score without Nash. He said Nash was responsible for all of Gortat's points. He is 3.7 points off his mark which equates to less than 1 basket per quarter per game. That doesn't equate to Nash holding up Gortat's shorts.

I bet every single team in the NBA will take a center in the top 10 in double doubles in this league any day of the week.
 
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gordon

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Gortat's rebounds per 36 minutes:
with Beasley on court: 8.6 (437 minutes)
with Beasley on bench: 11.8 (158 minutes)

When Beasley's on the court our opponents can't miss a shot, so there's not much to rebound...

via Valley of the Suns:
This has been a season-long trend as the Suns are nearly 21 points per 100 possessions better when Beasley sits than when he plays, according to the NBA’s stats tool. Almost all of this difference comes at the defensive end, as the Suns possess a superb 95.0 defensive rating when he sits and an abysmal 114.7 rating when he plays.
To put that in perspective, the Suns without Beasley would be the best defensive team in the NBA but they are the worst by seven points per 100 possessions when he’s on the floor, which is a pretty wide margin that covers the difference between the No. 11 and No. 30 defensive teams in the league.
Gortat's FGA/G
First 5 games: 11.8 (15.0 pts)
Last 14 games: 8.1 (10.5 pts)
2011/2012: 11.7 (15.4 pts)

It's hard to score when you never get the ball and don't have any set plays run for you. When Gortat gets the ball he delivers.
 

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I want to post my opinion on this topic, but there's no reason to spend time writing a post when I can just copy and paste what I said in April of last season, in a post entitled "Trade Ideas for Gortat":

"Don't get me wrong - I'm a firm believer in building a team where guys can play their natural positions; the 2010 team was able to overachieve largely because of the fact we had Nash, J. Rich, Hill, Amare, and Lopez starting and had Dragic, Dudley, Frye, and Admundson to comfortably play the positions they were both physically and skillfully equipped to play.

Gortat is 6'11" with long arms and a decent amount of bulk. But he's not strong enough to post up Chris Paul. He isn't big enough to dunk the ball if "shotblockers" like Randy Foye is within 15 feet of him.

Now, I agree that he may be worn down a bit. It's the last week of the regular season. Everyone is worn down. There is nothing abnormal for a guy to running close to empty at this point in the year. There is also nothing abnormal about the intensity of each possession picking up at this point of the year, either. Some guys find a way to elevate their game, focus, etc. when they don't feel their best. The majority of NBA players don't have what it takes to compete at a championship level. Toughness is a prerequisite for success at the NBA playoff level, not a bonus. And Gortat has shown the opposite of toughness. He's been soft all year; our opponents have just been getting more physical, and it's exposing Gortat for what he is.

If we don't trade Gortat this offseason, the not-so-well-kept secret - That Gortat's name is missing a "w" between the letters "t" and "a" - won't be a secret at all."
 

tobiazz

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Gortat only averaged 15 when he had the best PG of the decade spoon-feeding him as the primary target on offense. He should have averaged 18+, considering he blew so many easy feeds from Nash. There was nowhere to go but down. I like having him, but he doesn't do much good on a horrible team.
 

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I have this feeling that Marcin is exhausted - not in a physical way ... I would say 'mental/Phoenix burnout' issue. Why? I remember Gortat as one of the most ambitious guy in the entire polish sport who always work on himself to reach a goal ... and now - after almost 20 games of this season - it`s clearly observable that he is a shadow of himself. Maybe he is no longer connected with Suns roster ... maybe I overexposed his real abilities ... maybe all that crap is just a Gentry`s fault or whatever the reason is - I feel that`s the point.

****.
 

Mainstreet

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I've maintained for a couple of seasons that Gortat does not carry enough weight. He constantly gets pushed around. This is not to say he cannot be effective, but I believe he does not have the same bulk when he first arrived with the Suns.
 

95pro

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I've maintained for a couple of seasons that Gortat does not carry enough weight. He constantly gets pushed around. This is not to say he cannot be effective, but I believe he does not have the same bulk when he first arrived with the Suns.

I agree. Seems like he doesn't want to get physical as well. He moves well with his opponent on D, BUT doesn't body up on them. There's always a bit of separation between him and the guy he's defending. Stays with them well but doesn't throw them off with physical D.
 

sunsfan88

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Lopez is horrible defensively but better offensively. Simple as that.
 

Covert Rain

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I've maintained for a couple of seasons that Gortat does not carry enough weight. He constantly gets pushed around. This is not to say he cannot be effective, but I believe he does not have the same bulk when he first arrived with the Suns.

The Suns do ask their Centers to run more versus the typical center. I have not tracked his weight but if this is true it would not surprise me. If Gortat was playing for a more traditional team his role would be different I am sure.
 
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Through games of February 20:

mpg: Gortat 31.3, Lopez 25.7
ppg: Gortat 11.2, Lopez 11.5
fg%: Gortat 54%, Lopez 56%
ft%: Gortat 68%, Lopez 76%
fta/gm: Gortat 2.3, Lopez 2.5
rpg: Gortat 8.5, Lopez 5.4
bpg: Gortat 1.7, Lopez 1.6
turnovers/gm: Gortat 1.7, Lopez 1.2
pf/gm: Gortat 2.1, Lopez 2.0
apg: Gortat 1.3, Lopez 0.8
spg: Gortat 0.6, Lopez 0.5
 

95pro

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I beginning to think Lopez was still coming off the back injury last year much like how Howard sucks this year too (relative to his previous form).

Even with our awesome medical staff we might have got rid of Lopez a bit too soon. Next years numbers will tell more imo.
 

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He still sucks at rebounding which is inexcusable.
 

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