Grade the Suns off season roster moves for 2019-20

[AzStevenCal]

It was a strange offseason to me. The individual moves we made probably average out to a low D but collectively, I'd give the overall offseason a solid B. I think we're like most of the league now, we have a real team that will go as far as our best players can take us. That won't likely be all that far given that our best players will still be a few years away from their peak but it's much better than what we've put out there for a few years now.

 

[Mainstreet]

One of my concerns about the Suns this coming season is the lack of athleticism when the Suns go to the bench at the power forward position.

Frank Kaminsky is not the most athletic player there and it could hurt on defense. I guess the Suns could play small ball at the power forward position when they go to the bench or simply choose to go big with Baynes and Kaminsky.

I'm still hoping the Suns can add another player at the power forward spot that can help them on defense and rebounding off the bench.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It was a strange offseason to me. The individual moves we made probably average out to a low D but collectively, I'd give the overall offseason a solid B. I think we're like most of the league now, we have a real team that will go as far as our best players can take us. That won't likely be all that far given that our best players will still be a few years away from their peak but it's much better than what we've put out there for a few years now.

That is really it isn't it? James Jones is going all-in on Booker and Ayton as a duo and building around them. McD was always looking for more hidden gem stars. I think I agree with the latter approach. Either they are the stars that will lead us to contention or they are not, but we will never know until we commit to it.

The other thing is that teams seem to find stars just as much by drafting "safe" as by taking risks. To me, Nash, Markannen, Tatum and many others were "safe" picks and ended p excelling.

 

[Redwoodz]

One of my concerns about the Suns this coming season is the lack of athleticism when the Suns go to the bench at the power forward position.

A concern of mine too. I don't hold out too much hope though.

 

[JCSunsfan]

One of my concerns about the Suns this coming season is the lack of athleticism when the Suns go to the bench at the power forward position.

Frank Kaminsky is not the most athletic player there and it could hurt on defense. I guess the Suns could play small ball at the power forward position when they go to the bench or simply choose to go big with Baynes and Kaminsky.

I'm still hoping the Suns can add another player at the power forward spot that can help them on defense and rebounding off the bench.

My guess is that if we really need an athletic defender in certain game situations, Oubre will get the assignment. He is not bulky but his wingspan is a lot longer than I realized (7-3). That is a full 5 inches more than Cam Johnson (or Josh Jackson).

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it's too soon. Right now I am at a C. Simply because we tend to overrate our talent around here and I still think keeping our draft pick was the better move. Cam Johnson could shock the heck out of everyone, Rubio is a decent pickup and the bench is deeper but the off-season didn't have the wow factor. I am not sure the Suns are done so I am waiting for my vote.

Having said that, I don't see it getting above C+ for me unless something totally unexpected happens.

 

[Chaplin]

My guess is that if we really need an athletic defender in certain game situations, Oubre will get the assignment. He is not bulky but his wingspan is a lot longer than I realized (7-3). That is a full 5 inches more than Cam Johnson (or Josh Jackson).

Wouldn't Bridges be the primary defender in virtually all game situations?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wouldn't Bridges be the primary defender in virtually all game situations?

Well. Yes. I think Bridges will draw the toughest guard or wing player, but Oubre will match up better against pf's. At least that is my opinion. Oubre is just a bit bigger.

 

[SirStefan32]

Another concern with the second unit is scoring. Where is the scoring going to come from? I am guessing that either Booker or Oubre will play with the second unit a lot. Johnson may need to score a lot, and we can all hope Cam is going to be able to score some points.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Another concern with the second unit is scoring. Where is the scoring going to come from? I am guessing that either Booker or Oubre will play with the second unit a lot. Johnson may need to score a lot, and we can all hope Cam is going to be able to score some points.

Just depends on how Monty decides to utilize his subs. Will he go with more of a line change or will he just gradually sub 1-2 guys in and out every few minutes. With the former he may have to have Oubre come off the bench, but with the latter it really won't matter as long as he is smart with his substitution decisions.

 

[Mainstreet]

A concern of mine too. I don't hold out too much hope though.

My guess is that if we really need an athletic defender in certain game situations, Oubre will get the assignment. He is not bulky but his wingspan is a lot longer than I realized (7-3). That is a full 5 inches more than Cam Johnson (or Josh Jackson).

I suppose Baynes can play some power forward and Kaminsky can play center.

Oubre can play power forward as well. I guess I was looking for a bench 5 not including a starter.

I'm still hopeful the Suns can add a power forward that can get some minutes.

 

[SirStefan32]

Just depends on how Monty decides to utilize his subs. Will he go with more of a line change or will he just gradually sub 1-2 guys in and out every few minutes. With the former he may have to have Oubre come off the bench, but with the latter it really won't matter as long as he is smart with his substitution decisions.

I am guessing Oubre starts, goes out after six minutes, Bridges comes in, and then when Booker and Ayton go out, Oubre comes back in to play with TJ, Bridges, Baynes, and whoever else.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Well. Yes. I think Bridges will draw the toughest guard or wing player, but Oubre will match up better against pf's. At least that is my opinion. Oubre is just a bit bigger.

Bridges is bulking up this off-season though so we'll have to see what he gets up to for the season

 

[95pro]

Bridges is bulking up this off-season though so we'll have to see what he gets up to for the season

I don't think he's bulking up so he can play forward, no one bulks up to play another position. He's just so thin coming in to the league, now he's actually building muscle but i don't think he's "bulking up". He'll still be a guard/wing.

 

[Covert Rain]

Another concern with the second unit is scoring. Where is the scoring going to come from? I am guessing that either Booker or Oubre will play with the second unit a lot. Johnson may need to score a lot, and we can all hope Cam is going to be able to score some points.

No doubt. We will find out how good Monty is at managing minutes real quick. If the bench has trouble scoring or playing defense you will have to shorten the rotations and bring starters in to keep things going.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm still hoping the Suns can add another player at the power forward spot that can help them on defense and rebounding off the bench.

That's why I'm hoping we can get Luc Mbah a Moute instead of resigning Bender or another reserve big. Whoever we sign now doesn't need to play C. We have Baynes and Kaminsky to do that off the bench already. I think we need someone who can play PF and if he can slide to another spot then SF rather than C. Mbah a Moute would fill that role. He's not a great rebounder but I think we'll depend on our C to handle the boards and the rest will be sort of by committee.

I really liked what Mbah a Moute did with the Rockets 2 years ago. He played PF for them and it was a little confusing how some talked about the role Ariza played with Houston because the previous season saw both PJ Tucker and Mbah a Moute playing PF for them. Ariza was out there and would get switched a lot. I would have preferred Luc to Ariza last offseason, especially based on what they both signed for financially. He signed for $4.3, which is what the MLE was for the Clippers and we all know how Ariza turned out. Regardless of that, Luc could play for us if he's healthy. He had surgery in late March on his knee but was expected to resume basketball activities in 8 weeks. He was waived then by the Clippers since they needed healthy bodies for their playoff run.

On a league minimum deal, Mbah a Moute could be a good addition and outplay his contract. He's 6'8" and 230 pounds and had a 7'2" wingspan back when he was drafted, link, so he'd fit in well with Oubre and Bridges as well. We could play a really long lineup with Ayton, Mbah a Moute, Oubre, Bridges, and Booker at PG.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's why I'm hoping we can get Luc Mbah a Moute instead of resigning Bender or another reserve big. Whoever we sign now doesn't need to play C. We have Baynes and Kaminsky to do that off the bench already. I think we need someone who can play PF and if he can slide to another spot then SF rather than C. Mbah a Moute would fill that role. He's not a great rebounder but I think we'll depend on our C to handle the boards and the rest will be sort of by committee.

I really liked what Mbah a Moute did with the Rockets 2 years ago. He played PF for them and it was a little confusing how some talked about the role Ariza played with Houston because the previous season saw both PJ Tucker and Mbah a Moute playing PF for them. Ariza was out there and would get switched a lot. I would have preferred Luc to Ariza last offseason, especially based on what they both signed for financially. He signed for $4.3, which is what the MLE was for the Clippers and we all know how Ariza turned out. Regardless of that, Luc could play for us if he's healthy. He had surgery in late March on his knee but was expected to resume basketball activities in 8 weeks. He was waived then by the Clippers since they needed healthy bodies for their playoff run.

On a league minimum deal, Mbah a Moute could be a good addition and outplay his contract. He's 6'8" and 230 pounds and had a 7'2" wingspan back when he was drafted, link, so he'd fit in well with Oubre and Bridges as well. We could play a really long lineup with Ayton, Mbah a Moute, Oubre, Bridges, and Booker at PG.

I'm getting to this late after the Cheick Diallo signing.

Mbah a Moute would have been a solid addition as you point out. I'm liking the Diallo signing just as much because the Suns signed him to a 2 year contract and of course he is much younger.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is interesting. We had gotten used to the situation where when McD signed someone we would say, "He is a good player be we already have ____________. Who is going to be our _________________."

So far with Jones, we understand the team role for every player signed. I am probably repeating myself, but we see it again with Diallo.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is another look at the Suns roster.

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[Hoop Head]

Here is another look at the Suns roster.

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I would like to see Booker used more on the wing. He's a SG but he can play PG and SF. With our lack of PG's we haven't played him at SF but that is a possibility this year. Not that I want to see it a lot, if we brought back Daniels then maybe a Rubio, Daniels, Booker trio at PG, SG, and SF would be nice. Hopefully one of guards can prove to be a quality outside shooter.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would like to see Booker used more on the wing. He's a SG but he can play PG and SF. With our lack of PG's we haven't played him at SF but that is a possibility this year. Not that I want to see it a lot, if we brought back Daniels then maybe a Rubio, Daniels, Booker trio at PG, SG, and SF would be nice. Hopefully one of guards can prove to be a quality outside shooter.

It's a great idea if the Suns want to get more scorers on the court.

We always think about Booker playing point guard at the end of games. He can slide to small forward as well with Oubre sliding to power forward.

 

[Folster]

I listened to the recent Timeline podcast that dove into the analytics of the Suns players. It was extremely enlightening and shocking.

One highlight was that both Josh Jackson and Jamal Crawford had a PIPM (Player Impact Plus Minus) of -4, among the worst in the league.

The data is from BBall Index and they had one of the founders on the pod.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm going with a D, although it's a homer D because if I was being objective, I'd probably go with an F.

By my count they've lost value on 9 assets that were moved or obtained (in order of value lost):

1. TJ
2. #11
3. JJ (I know, I know, you guys disagree with me. But I still see this as a loss)
4. #6
5. #32
6. Melton
7. 2020 2nd rounder
8. 2021 2nd rounder
9. #24 (only slightly disagree with drafting Jerome)

The degree to which they lost value varies wildly. (The 2nd rounders for instance are of minor concern, butt the value lost on #11 is embarrassing.) I mean to say, taken quantitatively it looks far worse than if you look at it qualitatively. Still very bad though.

By my count they gained on 4:

1. Rubio (worth the $17M for 3 years)
2. Milwaukee pick
3. Oubre's contract makes sense
4. Lecque was a great UDFA signing

These cover a portion of the qualitative loss we accrued above, but not all. None of these were homeruns.

From everything I've listened to, read, and the countless podcasts I've gone over, it would appear we could have still gained on these 4 without having to sell low on the 9 above. Certainly not substantiated, but that seems to be the common understanding by guys smarter than me. (That's been debated ad nauseam on here so I won't rehash any more of it.)

I'm going to give us a D, as opposed to an F, only because we're better. And that's the weird part. I actually like where we finished. I just strongly believe we took too many needless casualties to get there.

This. total D for me.

Oubre went short and possibly will be gone since we will need the money for upcoming Ayton max.
Rubio was a horrible overpay and now makes more money that Oubre, who is more integral to our future.
Saric Fine..... Not going to help our defense in any way..... but is a capable 4.
Losing Jackson & Warren for basically nothing. I get JJ, but damn..... that was peanuts.
Booker is a year older and not anywhere close to the playoffs. Resentment will eventually set in.
Drafting Cam that high is perilous.
Jerome was a good pick at that spot.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This. total D for me.

Oubre went short and possibly will be gone since we will need the money for upcoming Ayton max.
Rubio was a horrible overpay and now makes more money that Oubre, who is more integral to our future.
Saric Fine..... Not going to help our defense in any way..... but is a capable 4.
Losing Jackson & Warren for basically nothing. I get JJ, but damn..... that was peanuts.
Booker is a year older and not anywhere close to the playoffs. Resentment will eventually set in.
Drafting Cam that high is perilous.
Jerome was a good pick at that spot.

I agree with a lot of this, but getting Monty Williams factors in for me as well and that was an A as far as coaching moves simply because he's got experience, was highly sought after and brings at least a modicum of professionalism/respect to a team that has been woefully short of that for near a decade, which is why my grade ended up being a C.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Fivethirtyeight.com projects that the Suns will win 36 games. That's almost doubling the win total from last season.