Grant Hill retires

[Griffin]

Grant Hill has announced his retirement from the NBA.

Hill most recently was with the Los Angeles Clippers.

Hill was a seven-time NBA All-Star and was named to the All-NBA First Team in 1997 and the All-NBA Second Team in 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000. He also won the NBA’s Sportsmanship Award in 2005, 2008 and 2010.

Hill was the third overall selection in the 1994 NBA Draft by the Detroit Pistons.

http://www.nba.com/clippers/seven-time-nba-all-star-grant-hill-retires

 

[HooverDam]

I hope the Suns gave him a call and offered him a position doing more or less whatever he wants, its what Jerry would've done.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Hill certainly has been a good citizen and prior to his injuries and received many individual awards.

What is amazing is that his teams have had little success. In Detroit he never got out of the 1st round of the playoffs. That is when he was drawing comparisons to Jordan. In Orlando he was mostly injured but they never got out of the 1st round of the playoffs either. In Phoenix he only made the playoffs twice in 5 tries and only once made it past the 1st round. That was Amare's final year in the desert.

Has he done enough to be considered for the HOF some day?

I don't think so.

As far as a player for the Suns. I think he was good but not great individually. I think he was a good team player but then I think he came to Phoenix because we offered a job as a starter. I always thought he would have been better coming off the bench. He did not want that role and was not good at it when given the opportunity. With his playmaking and scoring ability I always thought that was his natural spot, whatever.

I wish him great luck and hope he does join our organization in some capacity.

 

[Folster]

Hill certainly has been a good citizen and prior to his injuries and received many individual awards.

What is amazing is that his teams have had little success. In Detroit he never got out of the 1st round of the playoffs. That is when he was drawing comparisons to Jordan. In Orlando he was mostly injured but they never got out of the 1st round of the playoffs either. In Phoenix he only made the playoffs twice in 5 tries and only once made it past the 1st round. That was Amare's final year in the desert.

Has he done enough to be considered for the HOF some day?

I don't think so.

As far as a player for the Suns. I think he was good but not great individually. I think he was a good team player but then I think he came to Phoenix because we offered a job as a starter. I always thought he would have been better coming off the bench. He did not want that role and was not good at it when given the opportunity. With his playmaking and scoring ability I always thought that was his natural spot, whatever.

I wish him great luck and hope he does join our organization in some capacity.

He'll make it, but not because of his pro career. The Basketball Hall of Fame is unlike Football which has a "Pro" Football Hall of Fame. The basketball Hall of Fame includes collegiate and pro (men and women). Rick Pitino was recently inducted. Hill will make it for his Duke years.

 

[Magnus]

Grant Hill is an exceptional sportsman and good and honest human being. Such a shame that injuries hindered him, but it's a miracle that he managed to battle them off after doctors said his career is done. He's the one guy I was always rooting for, it's too bad that he never got a chance for a ring.

Thanks Grant for all the years of basketball!

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope the Suns gave him a call and offered him a position doing more or less whatever he wants, its what Jerry would've done.

This was my first thought about Hill's retirement, maybe even being hired back as an assistant coach.

Also I would like somehow to see Nash finish his career with the Suns. If only the Suns could get him for a minimal salary for his final season. I wonder if Nash would ever consider coaching after his playing career. His ties to the Valley appear strong.

 

[Suns_fan69]

One of my favorite Grant Hill moments of recent years:

 

[JS22]

I think Hill would fit nicely in Hunter's former player development role.

 

[Cheesebeef]

it's crazy to think Grant Hill was on 7 All-Star teams. That seems like EONS ago.

 

[chickenhead]

Congrats to Grant on a great career. I think I speak for many when I say that people bring up his injuries and lack of postseason success because we would like to have seen more of him on the court, and in the finals.

I'd love him to be part of the organization. In a lot of ways I thought he had come home when he came to the Suns. He's what a lot of fans think the organization should be.

 

[Michael]

I feel like Frodo and Sam watching the immortal elves leaving Middle Earth, never to return. It somehow makes me sad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I guess I don't feel the same connection to this guy as many of you do. I thought he was overrated when he was at his best and I thought he was overrated when he played for us. He was a very good player but he had no business being compared to the greats when he was in Detroit. I think a lot of his reputation as a player stemmed from the fact he was well-spoken, intelligent, comported himself well off the court and he was an easy person to like and respect.

He was a good defender when he played for us but his half-hearted effort when we tried to use him off the bench always rubbed me the wrong way. He did the same thing in Orlando despite the fact that his presence on the court really killed that team. IIRC, he was at or near the bottom in +/- stats his last year or two for the Magic. Anyway, I appreciate what he did for us when he was on the Suns but I don't agree with the adulation. I wouldn't mind seeing him join the front office or coaching staff but his time with the Suns has no bearing on that for me.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

When Grant hill was on top of his game he was one of the best all around players in the league. I just don't get how anybody could say otherwise. One of my favorite players in the league bar none. Just the type of guy you want to cheer for.

Also, I don't buy the half hearted crap. He had a hard time warming up when sitting for too long which is not uncommon for guys like Hill. If there is one guy in the league where I felt like he left it all on the court every single game it was Grant Hill.

Would love this guy to be part of the organization. It could use some class after what Sarver has done with the front office. Good luck Grant!

 

[AzStevenCal]

When Grant hill was on top of his game he was one of the best all around players in the league. I just don't get how anybody could say otherwise. One of my favorite players in the league bar none. Just the type of guy you want to cheer for.

Also, I don't buy the half hearted crap. He had a hard time warming up when sitting for too long which is not uncommon for guys like Hill. If there is one guy in the league where I felt like he left it all on the court every single game it was Grant Hill.

Would love this guy to be part of the organization. It could use some class after what Sarver has done with the front office. Good luck Grant!

He was fine coming in after rests and in the second half so this excuse makes no sense to me. And, I agree he was one of the best all around players in the league if you're talking top 10 or top 15 but he was talked about as the next Jordan and that was over the top, IMO. He was a very good player, I don't think he was a great player.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

He was fine coming in after rests and in the second half so this excuse makes no sense to me. And, I agree he was one of the best all around players in the league if you're talking top 10 or top 15 but he was talked about as the next Jordan and that was over the top, IMO. He was a very good player, I don't think he was a great player.

Steve

Coming in after warmups (1st or 2nd half) or after resting for a few minutes is much different versus sitting until until the end of the 1st or 2nd and coming in completely cold. Not to mention that some guys do better in certain quarters or parts of quarters for whatever reason.

Also, you would be hard pressed to find any kind of pattern among coaches and players that have ever questioned his heart or that questions that he leaves everything on the court. He worked his ass off after every injury. Worked his ass off to get back to playing with the Suns. How anybody could question his heart is beyond me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Coming in after warmups (1st or 2nd half) or after resting for a few minutes is much different versus sitting until until the end of the 1st or 2nd and coming in completely cold. Not to mention that some guys do better in certain quarters or parts of quarters for whatever reason.

Also, you would be hard pressed to find any kind of pattern among coaches and players that have ever questioned his heart or that questions that he leaves everything on the court. He worked his ass off after every injury. Worked his ass off to get back to playing with the Suns. How anybody could question his heart is beyond me.

I think you used this line on me before which leads me to believe we've already had this conversation. It's not quite as bad as saying that only a flag burning commie could hold such an opinion but it doesn't miss it by much. All I can tell you is, I hold a different opinion than you. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong but that's the thing about opinions.

Steve

 

[Budden]

I think you used this line on me before which leads me to believe we've already had this conversation. It's not quite as bad as saying that only a flag burning commie could hold such an opinion but it doesn't miss it by much. All I can tell you is, I hold a different opinion than you. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong but that's the thing about opinions.

Steve

Well, it is possible to have an incorrect opinion...

With regard to Hill's efficiency as a starter vs. as a reserve, there are other explanations for being worse that don't revolve around effort. It's not like Hill played all that many games for us as a reserve, so maybe he would've adapted to a different role if we needed him to. Like you, I don't really buy into the "getting cold after warmups" idea, but that doesn't mean there aren't other variables we aren't considering that can and probably do make a difference.

It does seem to me like Grant Hill played extremely hard and always did whatever was asked of him. If you believe, in Hill's mind, he thought, "I'll guard any position on the floor, from chasing around Chris Paul to bruising down low with Blake Griffin (in the same game, mind you), I'll shoot 15 shots or 2 shots, I'll change my diet completely to give me even the slightest of edge over the opponent, to the point where I ate one slice of cake at my daughter's wedding but nothing else throughout the season, I'll play 40 minutes or 20 minutes, but I WON'T come over the bench," then, you're entitled to your opinion.

But like I said, it is possible to have an incorrect opinion.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, it is possible to have an incorrect opinion...

With regard to Hill's efficiency as a starter vs. as a reserve, there are other explanations for being worse that don't revolve around effort. It's not like Hill played all that many games for us as a reserve, so maybe he would've adapted to a different role if we needed him to. Like you, I don't really buy into the "getting cold after warmups" idea, but that doesn't mean there aren't other variables we aren't considering that can and probably do make a difference.

It does seem to me like Grant Hill played extremely hard and always did whatever was asked of him. If you believe, in Hill's mind, he thought, "I'll guard any position on the floor, from chasing around Chris Paul to bruising down low with Blake Griffin (in the same game, mind you), I'll shoot 15 shots or 2 shots, I'll change my diet completely to give me even the slightest of edge over the opponent, to the point where I ate one slice of cake at my daughter's wedding but nothing else throughout the season, I'll play 40 minutes or 20 minutes, but I WON'T come over the bench," then, you're entitled to your opinion.

But like I said, it is possible to have an incorrect opinion.

Absolutely, and my observation/opinion may very well be wrong. I certainly wouldn't bet my house on it. But, I get a little testy when someone appears to challenge my right to an opinion rather than the opinion itself. When a person says something like "no one in their right mind" or "I find it inconceivable that anyone but an idiot could hold that opinion" or any similar version, they are playing dirty AFAIC. I recognize it because I've done it a time or two myself but for some strange reason it seems to bother me more when I'm on the receiving end.

I think it's possible for a person to be a hard worker, a good teammate and all those other positives that Grant is credited for any yet, still not be perfect. I think ego is a huge driving force for players at every level and even more so in the NBA. IMO, I always felt that Grant worked harder and was more aggressive when he was a starter and that he was often passive if he started the game on the bench. I watched him play just about every game with the Suns and that's what I believed I saw from him.

Steve

 

[Budden]

Absolutely, and my observation/opinion may very well be wrong. I certainly wouldn't bet my house on it. But, I get a little testy when someone appears to challenge my right to an opinion rather than the opinion itself. When a person says something like "no one in their right mind" or "I find it inconceivable that anyone but an idiot could hold that opinion" or any similar version, they are playing dirty AFAIC. I recognize it because I've done it a time or two myself but for some strange reason it seems to bother me more when I'm on the receiving end.

I think it's possible for a person to be a hard worker, a good teammate and all those other positives that Grant is credited for any yet, still not be perfect. I think ego is a huge driving force for players at every level and even more so in the NBA. IMO, I always felt that Grant worked harder and was more aggressive when he was a starter and that he was often passive if he started the game on the bench. I watched him play just about every game with the Suns and that's what I believed I saw from him.

Steve

If you think I was calling you an idiot, then you're dumb.

Just kidding.

I guess it is possible. But to me, I think it's just hard for guys to get comfortable in new roles. And, so we're clear, it's not about "these guys get paid millions of dollars, they should do whatever they're asked as hard as they can." If I told you, "I'll pay you a million dollars to go talk to Kate Upton," I'm sure you'd do it. But if I said, "I'll pay you $1 million to be your normal, charming self while talking to her," you might have a more difficult time, right?

Plus, players play their best when they're the most comfortable with their roles as is realistically possible. When you're accustomed to being a number 1 guy, that doesn't just make your ego feel good, it also gives you a sense of identity. If people start telling you you're a number 7 guy, and everyone starts treating you accordingly, it's gotta mess with your confidence.

Look at Steve Nash this season. I'm his biggest fan, but he just wasn't the same player in 2012-13 that he was in 2011-12. Every game in his last season as a Sun, he'd do something that would amaze me. It might just be a pass that had the perfect amount of spin on it to get through the defense in one direction, hit the floor, and get to his intended target in another direction. As a Laker, I didn't see that once. Literally, not once (and, I watched every Laker game this season). Some people might have thought that Nash is just too old (I don't think 6 months = 5 years, though, so I disagree); perhaps he was angry with D'Antoni for letting Kobe assume more of the playmaking role (I don't think so, because Nash was the most vocal supporter of the idea, because he thought it could help the team). But Nash wasn't the same Nash. On a different team, different role, so dissonant from all the stuff that he'd identified himself with, maybe he just couldn't tap into whatever it was he tapping into so easily in Phoenix.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If you think I was calling you an idiot, then you're dumb.

Just kidding.

I guess it is possible. But to me, I think it's just hard for guys to get comfortable in new roles. And, so we're clear, it's not about "these guys get paid millions of dollars, they should do whatever they're asked as hard as they can." If I told you, "I'll pay you a million dollars to go talk to Kate Upton," I'm sure you'd do it. But if I said, "I'll pay you $1 million to be your normal, charming self while talking to her," you might have a more difficult time, right?

Plus, players play their best when they're the most comfortable with their roles as is realistically possible. When you're accustomed to being a number 1 guy, that doesn't just make your ego feel good, it also gives you a sense of identity. If people start telling you you're a number 7 guy, and everyone starts treating you accordingly, it's gotta mess with your confidence.

Look at Steve Nash this season. I'm his biggest fan, but he just wasn't the same player in 2012-13 that he was in 2011-12. Every game in his last season as a Sun, he'd do something that would amaze me. It might just be a pass that had the perfect amount of spin on it to get through the defense in one direction, hit the floor, and get to his intended target in another direction. As a Laker, I didn't see that once. Literally, not once (and, I watched every Laker game this season). Some people might have thought that Nash is just too old (I don't think 6 months = 5 years, though, so I disagree); perhaps he was angry with D'Antoni for letting Kobe assume more of the playmaking role (I don't think so, because Nash was the most vocal supporter of the idea, because he thought it could help the team). But Nash wasn't the same Nash. On a different team, different role, so dissonant from all the stuff that he'd identified himself with, maybe he just couldn't tap into whatever it was he tapping into so easily in Phoenix.

I have no idea what you said. I read something about Kate Upton and a million dollars to talk to her and everything just kind of blurred after that. BTW, my comment about why I got testy was explaining my response to another poster, not you. I think you understood that but just wanted to make sure.

Part of my issue with Hill (and it's a small issue, I like a lot more about him than I dislike) had to do with his stay in Orlando. The same complaints about him flourished while he was struggling to come back from injury after injury. He insisted on his timetable (even when it was obviously a detriment to the team) and he was clearly unhappy when he was used as anything other than a key starter. I don't think his behavior is all that unreasonable but I just can't support his nomination for Sainthood.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Part of my issue with Hill (and it's a small issue, I like a lot more about him than I dislike) had to do with his stay in Orlando. The same complaints about him flourished while he was struggling to come back from injury after injury. He insisted on his timetable (even when it was obviously a detriment to the team) and he was clearly unhappy when he was used as anything other than a key starter. I don't think his behavior is all that unreasonable but I just can't support his nomination for Sainthood.

Steve

Ah, the truth comes out. I notice you hold these grudges against certain players which you rarely back down from. Scola comes to mind as well.

I've also noticed you have a thing for Kate Upton. I'm with you there though. (I have a thing or two for her. <\Groucho>)

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ah, the truth comes out. I notice you hold these grudges against certain players which you rarely back down from. Scola comes to mind as well.

I've also noticed you have a thing for Kate Upton. I'm with you there though. (I have a thing or two for her. <\Groucho>)

I appreciate the compliment. Yes, I pride myself on consistency. I tried wishy-washy and it just didn't suit me. To be fair though, I've never held a grudge against Grant Hill. If people were ripping him for being a lazy, spoiled superstar I'd be steadfastly defending him. I like him, I think he was a very good player in his prime and a pretty good defender in his later years. If you read this thread from the beginning though you'll see a lot of posters that hold him in much, much higher regard. As for Scola, yes, I've always disliked him and never sugarcoated it but when he stopped doing some of the things I hated, I stopped hating on him. And you can never go wrong with Groucho.

Steve

 

[Budden]

I have no idea what you said. I read something about Kate Upton and a million dollars to talk to her and everything just kind of blurred after that. BTW, my comment about why I got testy was explaining my response to another poster, not you. I think you understood that but just wanted to make sure.

Part of my issue with Hill (and it's a small issue, I like a lot more about him than I dislike) had to do with his stay in Orlando. The same complaints about him flourished while he was struggling to come back from injury after injury. He insisted on his timetable (even when it was obviously a detriment to the team) and he was clearly unhappy when he was used as anything other than a key starter. I don't think his behavior is all that unreasonable but I just can't support his nomination for Sainthood.

Steve

To be fair, what player do you like?

 

[Budden]

Ah, the truth comes out. I notice you hold these grudges against certain players which you rarely back down from. Scola comes to mind as well.

I've also noticed you have a thing for Kate Upton. I'm with you there though. (I have a thing or two for her. <\Groucho>)

So, Steve sugfers from the same biases as everyone else. He's merely able to recognize and admit it.

 

[Superbone]

So, Steve sugfers from the same biases as everyone else. He's merely able to recognize and admit it.

Sugfer to yourself, Budden!