Grant Hill Sucks

fordronken

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Im soooo glad we signed a feel good story..

"Oft injured good guy Hill signs with Suns in hopes at title (nevermind he doesnt fit the Suns style) GO SUNS!"

:thumbdown

"Low Post Counting Sour Puss Airs Out Frustrations With Personal Life By Projecting Anger and Failure on Injury Prone Multi Millionaire"
 

TucsonDevil

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3 yrs ago, we won 62 games with JJ instead of grant hill, Q instead of Raja, and no bench (now we have at least the 6th man of year + MIP)

we're going to win lots of games. we can't do it without grant. it'll sort itself out.

3 years ago the San Antonio Spurs beat us in 5 games. Last year, they beat us in 6 games...

The system still doesn't do what it is designed to do - Win it All.
 
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Gee!

Gee!

BirdGang
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"Low Post Counting Sour Puss Airs Out Frustrations With Personal Life By Projecting Anger and Failure on Injury Prone Multi Millionaire"

Not sure what that means.. Well Im certian I dont know what that means.. Enlighten me..
 

Errntknght

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Gee seems to be ranting about the teams failure, the summer past, to do exactly what he'd been fantasizing about and has chosen to make Hill the symbol of all that is wrong - in his mind. No big deal, but what gets me is that several others have agreed with him that Grant is not a good fit for the Suns style.

They must have some information that is not available from watching the games because Hill has been running the floor better than anyone but Marion - and finishing better than him when there are defenders contesting. If they think that Grant is screwing up the half court offense, I'd like to have them give some instances because I haven't seen it. Is he doing some subtle thing that is ruining the P&R?

It sort of reminds me of the myth that was rampant in here a whole season about Hunter interfering with Amare's offensive game. Then comes the Spurs series and coincident with Hunter playing 50% more than usual, Amare scores 50% more.

I suppose it could be Grant's lousy 3 point shooting so far that is leading them to this conclusion but at least he reined himself in to only one 3pt attempt after missing 6 of 7. I agree with those who think Hill will either shoot a respectable percentage or avoid taking many of them - something most of us wish Marion would do. I wouldn't agree that he has to knock down several game at around a 40% clip to be a good fit for the team. If D'Antoni can't adjust the offense to work with Grant Hill's known game then he is one stupid coach and doubly stupid for pinning his hopes a guy who has never been a three point threat and expecting him to become one overnight.
 

greensborohill

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Grant Hill for 12-18 minutes is great. . . but as a 30+ minute player in the style the Suns want to play? Square peg in round hole.
 

Errntknght

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Grant Hill for 12-18 minutes is great. . . but as a 30+ minute player in the style the Suns want to play? Square peg in round hole.

What the heck do you know? I mean it, what have you seen that leads you to say such a thing?
 

TucsonDevil

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If D'Antoni can't adjust the offense to work with Grant Hill's known game then he is one stupid coach and doubly stupid for pinning his hopes a guy who has never been a three point threat and expecting him to become one overnight.

:yeahthat: this was my point behind how 'non-great' Coach D'Antoni really is... and his *!@*$!% system. Maybe things change this year. He can't get more stubborn, can he?
 

greensborohill

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What the heck do you know? I mean it, what have you seen that leads you to say such a thing?

I know he's a 25% 3 point shooter and has averaged less than a half a 3 attempt per game, yet DA wants him to be a 3 point threat. . and so far has 4 3 point attempts a game.

I know he's on played more than 60 games a season twice in the last six seasons. And although he has averaged a great number of minutes in those seasons, you wonder whether the number of minutes played should be reduced to save his body for the long haul. And I know your coach only likes to go seven deep with an eighth guy getting 7 to 10 minutes a game.

Those things aren't the best combo are they?

Now if they adjust his role and minutes. . . . .
 

greensborohill

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Gee seems to be ranting about the teams failure, the summer past, to do exactly what he'd been fantasizing about and has chosen to make Hill the symbol of all that is wrong - in his mind. No big deal, but what gets me is that several others have agreed with him that Grant is not a good fit for the Suns style.

They must have some information that is not available from watching the games because Hill has been running the floor better than anyone but Marion - and finishing better than him when there are defenders contesting. If they think that Grant is screwing up the half court offense, I'd like to have them give some instances because I haven't seen it. Is he doing some subtle thing that is ruining the P&R?

It sort of reminds me of the myth that was rampant in here a whole season about Hunter interfering with Amare's offensive game. Then comes the Spurs series and coincident with Hunter playing 50% more than usual, Amare scores 50% more.

I suppose it could be Grant's lousy 3 point shooting so far that is leading them to this conclusion but at least he reined himself in to only one 3pt attempt after missing 6 of 7. I agree with those who think Hill will either shoot a respectable percentage or avoid taking many of them - something most of us wish Marion would do. I wouldn't agree that he has to knock down several game at around a 40% clip to be a good fit for the team. If D'Antoni can't adjust the offense to work with Grant Hill's known game then he is one stupid coach and doubly stupid for pinning his hopes a guy who has never been a three point threat and expecting him to become one overnight.

Basically what you said.
 

Covert Rain

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I know he's a 25% 3 point shooter and has averaged less than a half a 3 attempt per game, yet DA wants him to be a 3 point threat. . and so far has 4 3 point attempts a game.

I know he's on played more than 60 games a season twice in the last six seasons. And although he has averaged a great number of minutes in those seasons, you wonder whether the number of minutes played should be reduced to save his body for the long haul. And I know your coach only likes to go seven deep with an eighth guy getting 7 to 10 minutes a game.

Those things aren't the best combo are they?

Now if they adjust his role and minutes. . . . .


Grant Hill had a healthy year last year. The doctors and trainers have given him a clean bill of health. Grant Hill can play much more then 12 - 18 minutes. Your suggestions is almost as bad as turning Hill into a 3 point threat. Hill should probably play 25 to 28 minutes IMO.

There is no reason to think he couldn't do any less.
 
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MastersofCombat

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Grant hill cost about the same as Sean Marks, if you can get production from either its a bonus and if you can get quality minutes its insane. Right now Grant Hill is playing so so but he is still worth every dime spent x 2.
No one on the Suns is looking that good to be honest so its a bad time for this discussion.
If theres any problem it should be in the fact that we need him to start. That says mouthfuls for the fact that Boris Diaw still hasnt stepped up his offensive game enough to warrant a 50million dollar signing and to proclaimed a starter.
Even with that said I wouldnt give up on either.
 

Errntknght

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greens,
I know he's a 25% 3 point shooter and has averaged less than a half a 3 attempt per game, yet DA wants him to be a 3 point threat. . and so far has 4 3 point attempts a game.

I know he's on played more than 60 games a season twice in the last six seasons. And although he has averaged a great number of minutes in those seasons, you wonder whether the number of minutes played should be reduced to save his body for the long haul. And I know your coach only likes to go seven deep with an eighth guy getting 7 to 10 minutes a game.

What you say is correct but this has been hashed over a hundred times already on here - I thought maybe you had something to add that led you to say that Hill is a square peg in a round hole because it doesn't follow from those threadbare arguments.

Of course D'Antoni wants him to be a three point threat - he wants everyone to be. The question is will he force Grant to bomb away from the arc or will he let him play his game and incorporate his strengths into the offense. If you're convinced of the former then I would agree that D'Antoni is trying to force a square peg in a round hole. IMO, Mike is generally tolerant of the guys defining their own roles - more than most coaches, anyway.

Do the Suns have a place in their offense for Hill's midrange game, for his ability to drive to the hoop and get to the line, for his playmaking skills, for his ability to post up smaller/slower players? So far no one has said 'no' to this question so it looks to me like we have a nice square hole for him.

Yes his durability is a matter for concern but we have to face the fact that if the risk weren't high we almost certainly wouldn't have been able to get him at all. Far from being a square peg for a round hole, he was as good a fit as we could hope for, given the opening we had. One can certainly delve into history and find 'reasons' why the Suns were in such a pickle but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't take their best shot once they're in it.

No one would be shocked if Hill missed 20 games this year but with luck that won't be at playoff time - and given the successes of the Suns training staff they should up the odds in our favor a signifcant amount.

Yes, Hill averaged 4 three point attempts in two games but I think it is significant that they were distributed 7 in the first game and 1 in the second. I interpret that to mean that he was nailing threes in practice and decided he ought see what happened in games - once he found out his 3pt shot wasn't ready for prime time he backed off. I expect he'll keep working on the shot trying to get it to the point its a useful weapon but I don't think he's going to let the quest ruin the rest of his game.
 

TucsonDevil

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Grant hill cost about the same as Sean Marks, if you can get production from either its a bonus and if you can get quality minutes its insane. Right now Grant Hill is playing so so but he is still worth every dime spent x 2.

According to that Logic, Boris Diaw ought to be averaging 30/15/10 - and anything less should be a major let down.
 

Errntknght

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I was thinking of bumping this thread myself... I wonder if cheese is laughing yet...

cheesebeef,
man, you know something's right when both me and Gee agree on something. DA will have to adjust his "system" if this ridiculously offensively talented team is ever going to do anything.

and yes, I hope to laugh at this post later in the season.

Of course, D'Antoni hasn't adjusted his system and he should...
 

Cheesebeef

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I was thinking of bumping this thread myself... I wonder if cheese is laughing yet...

cheesebeef,


Of course, D'Antoni hasn't adjusted his system and he should...

well, then Grant has because in the last couple of games, I've noticed him not being buried in the corner and he was FINALLY working some of the offense when Nash was out, not to mention going to the rack and nailing that mid-range jumper.

Like I said wayyyyy back at the beginning of the thread. Hill definitely doesn't suck, but the way he was being used the first couple games of the season did. At least from the last two games, it appears that's starting to change, which can only help this team move forward. Dude's still got PLENTY of game left.
 

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Hill is 4 for 6 from behing the arc in the last two games, so I'd say taking the 3 is paying dividends. But I don't care -- we can all take credit for being right, just as long as Hill keeps this up!
 
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