Green + Draft = Playoff Roster

[Onery Bird]

In looking at Denny Green's drafts over the last two years I am absolutely amazed. For years the Cardinals were lucky to find 2 or maybe 3 front line players in any given draft year. Often times the results were worse, with the Cardinals getting only 1 or 2, or sometimes no legitimate starters from the draft.

How things have changed in the two years since Geen has come on board. Granted, it may be another year or two before we can fully evaluate the last two drafts, but it appears that Green has stuck gold with his first two drafts.

Green's first draft has yielded six players that have earned serious playing time(Fitzgerald, Leckey, Stepanovich, Docket, Dansby, and Smith). Green's second draft has been equally productive with another six players capturing some starting time(Rolle, Green, Blackstock, Brown, Arrington, and McCoy).

One more draft like the last two and the cupboard will be full. Good starters and depth at most positions. The man can spot talent. I'm convinced that Denny Green is putting together a playoff roster in Arizona. Hallelujah!!!!!

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

You won't find too many people here who will attack DG's draft prowess,

His coaching now..........

 

[dogpoo32]

You won't find too many people here who will attack DG's draft prowess,

His coaching now..........

Agreed. Draft-wise, he is among the best. When it comes to applying this talent, I don't know if he has the leadership skills. I want him to succeed. I want that more than almost anything. But he isn't showing that. If only he could find coaching talent like he does playing talent.

 

[Duckjake]

The key is "legitimate" NFL starters. Bonehead Boone and Company drafted lots of guys who started for the Cardinals. But they would only have been backups, role players, special teams guys or waterboys on other teams.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In looking at Denny Green's drafts over the last two years I am absolutely amazed. For years the Cardinals were lucky to find 2 or maybe 3 front line players in any given draft year. Often times the results were worse, with the Cardinals getting only 1 or 2, or sometimes no legitimate starters from the draft.

How things have changed in the two years since Geen has come on board. Granted, it may be another year or two before we can fully evaluate the last two drafts, but it appears that Green has stuck gold with his first two drafts.

Green's first draft has yielded six players that have earned serious playing time(Fitzgerald, Leckey, Stepanovich, Docket, Dansby, and Smith). Green's second draft has been equally productive with another six players capturing some starting time(Rolle, Green, Blackstock, Brown, Arrington, and McCoy).

One more draft like the last two and the cupboard will be full. Good starters and depth at most positions. The man can spot talent. I'm convinced that Denny Green is putting together a playoff roster in Arizona. Hallelujah!!!!!

Good points.Plus you have the realistic point of view,which others lack, that it takes a couple of years for players to become legitimate NFL starters. People expect Green greats drafts to produce instant stars that year.Look at the improvement of Fotz from year 1 to year 2.The pieces are definitely getting put together for a serious playoff run.I can see possible division title next year and definite wild card contender and then, in year 4, the start of a long sustained dominance of the division.

 

[seesred]

I also agree that Green has put us in a position to be winners year in and year out. The more talent we put on the field via drafts makes it easier to attract FA to come and help us build to a championship level. It takes the good part of three years of drafts, FA's and coaching up to get an NFL team to that special level. You can look at almost any coach's first three years after taking over a down franchise. A good coach will have a stable of players to work with by year three.

GBR
40
Beat the Skins
8-8

 

[Brian]

The key is "legitimate" NFL starters. Bonehead Boone and Company drafted lots of guys who started for the Cardinals. But they would only have been backups, role players, special teams guys or waterboys on other teams.

I was just going to say something along those lines. Just because they get significant playing time on this team, doesn't mean anything.

I like what I have seen so far, but the jury is still out on whether guys like Mitchell, McCoy, Brown, Blackstock, Stepanovich, Smith, Dockett, and Arrington are legitimate NFL starters.

IMHO, the last 2 drafts have definitely produced some bonafide NFL starters like Fitz, Dansby, Green, Leckey and Rolle.

If any of the rest pan out like they are looking like they may, we should be set for years.

 

[JeffGollin]

My only knock on Dennis' personnel prowess has as much to do with Cardinal personnel policies during the past few decades as it does Green.

Namely that we get rid of a lot of players (as in most cases we must) but we get nothing in return. Examples: Pete Kendall for zero. Anthony Clement for zero. Did we get a player or draft pick for Corey Chavous? Did we get fair value for Thomas Jones? Did we get fair value for Simeon Rice? Did we get fair value for David Boston? Did we get anything for Wadsworth?

Admittedly, several of these examples involve injuries or other extenuating circumstances. But my point is that getting nothing for something (whatever the reason) eventually wears away a team's talent base so that we always seem to be in a rebuilding mode - one or two years away from being really good. Other teams experience the same problem, but I think it's more characteristic of the Cardinals than it is most if not all successful teams.

It continually puts the wind at our front.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Namely that we get rid of a lot of players (as in most cases we must) but we get nothing in return. Examples: Pete Kendall for zero. Anthony Clement for zero. Did we get a player or draft pick for Corey Chavous? Did we get fair value for Thomas Jones? Did we get fair value for Simeon Rice? Did we get fair value for David Boston? Did we get anything for Wadsworth?

Does anybody ever get fair market return for a player they don't want anymore??

Did the 9ers get fair market for TO??

Like a garage sale, when it becomes known you no longer want it, nobody is going to offer up much. Taking it off your hands is reward enough.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

My only knock on Dennis' personnel prowess has as much to do with Cardinal personnel policies during the past few decades as it does Green.

Namely that we get rid of a lot of players (as in most cases we must) but we get nothing in return. Examples: Pete Kendall for zero. Anthony Clement for zero. Did we get a player or draft pick for Corey Chavous? Did we get fair value for Thomas Jones? Did we get fair value for Simeon Rice? Did we get fair value for David Boston? Did we get anything for Wadsworth?

Admittedly, several of these examples involve injuries or other extenuating circumstances. But my point is that getting nothing for something (whatever the reason) eventually wears away a team's talent base so that we always seem to be in a rebuilding mode - one or two years away from being really good. Other teams experience the same problem, but I think it's more characteristic of the Cardinals than it is most if not all successful teams.

It continually puts the wind at our front.

Being Free agents, as is the case with some of those you've mentioned, is more than a simple extenuating circumstance...

 

[Pariah]

Anthony Clement for zero.

Anthony Clemment was probably worth zero, or close to it. Shelton, on the other hand, is a starter and we could have gotten something for him (though it would have been better to retain him).

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Anthony Clemment was probably worth zero, or close to it. Shelton, on the other hand, is a starter and we could have gotten something for him (though it would have been better to retain him).

The problem with Shelton is nobody wanted him with the contract he had.

 

[Pariah]

The problem with Shelton is nobody wanted him with the contract he had.

I did.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I did.

That is where me and you differ.....I had a Sam Adams party when he was officially gone.

 

[Pariah]

That is where me and you differ.....I had a Sam Adams party when he was officially gone.

Why? Because he's worse that Ross and Wakefield at RT? Oh, wait, he's not...so it must be that you celebrated the fact the Bidwills saved some money. Weeeee! Someone else is richer and our offensive line is worse! What fun!

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Why? Because he's worse that Ross and Wakefield at RT? Oh, wait, he's not...so it must be that you celebrated the fact the Bidwills saved some money. Weeeee! Someone else is richer and our offensive line is worse! What fun!

He stole my daughter's loli pop and I caught him urinating in public.

 

[Pariah]

He stole my daughter's loli pop and I caught him urinating in public.

I love loli pops, and if it weren't for this damned shy bladder of mine, I'd be peeing everywhere.

You are only strengthening my resolve for Shelton with statements like this.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I love loli pops, and if it weren't for this damned shy bladder of mine, I'd be peeing everywhere.

You are only strengthening my resolve for Shelton with statements like this.

Loli pops are 1970s.....let the lil' girls have them. Now if it would have been an Ice Cream sandwhich............

 

[joeshmo]

I like what I have seen so far, but the jury is still out on whether guys like Mitchell, McCoy, Brown, Blackstock, Stepanovich, Smith, Dockett, and Arrington are legitimate NFL starters.

I dont think all of those guys have to be starters. You arent going to get a starter from rounds 1 through 7, that just isnt possible. We you have to hope for is for starters in rounds 1 and 2 and maybe round 3 as well later on and solid contributers and depth in the laters rounds.

With that I think that Smith and McCoy have already proven to be good backups and excelled when needed to. As for Mitchell he hasnt had the playing time to be in a successfull situation but he is the teams 2nd leading special teams tackler, that is pretty good value for a really late 5th round pick.

As for the day one picks, Blackstock, JJ, Step, Dockett, and Brown. Step is a 3rd rounder and isnt a starter but can be argued he would make a pretty good backup, thats not great value for a 3rd rounder but it is still better then average. Blackstock with his one chacne starting played well and has showed some great promise, for a very late 3rd rounder for his first year lookslike pretty good value. Dockett was a good value his first year, but regressed having a down year compared to last, will he recover from his sophmore slump. He is still good value for a 3rd round pick though. Brown has showed progress but he was a 3rd rounder for a reason he needs seasoning, but he has showed progress for the future, another good value IMO. As for JJ you would like a little more production then he has had, but he to has showed progress and are the coaches doing the smart think in bringing him along slowly?

 

[conraddobler]

I dont think all of those guys have to be starters. You arent going to get a starter from rounds 1 through 7, that just isnt possible. We you have to hope for is for starters in rounds 1 and 2 and maybe round 3 as well later on and solid contributers and depth in the laters rounds.

With that I think that Smith and McCoy have already proven to be good backups and excelled when needed to. As for Mitchell he hasnt had the playing time to be in a successfull situation but he is the teams 2nd leading special teams tackler, that is pretty good value for a really late 5th round pick.

As for the day one picks, Blackstock, JJ, Step, Dockett, and Brown. Step is a 3rd rounder and isnt a starter but can be argued he would make a pretty good backup, thats not great value for a 3rd rounder but it is still better then average. Blackstock with his one chacne starting played well and has showed some great promise, for a very late 3rd rounder for his first year lookslike pretty good value. Dockett was a good value his first year, but regressed having a down year compared to last, will he recover from his sophmore slump. He is still good value for a 3rd round pick though. Brown has showed progress but he was a 3rd rounder for a reason he needs seasoning, but he has showed progress for the future, another good value IMO. As for JJ you would like a little more production then he has had, but he to has showed progress and are the coaches doing the smart think in bringing him along slowly?

The theme there is value, we got value at the picks we need to get value from instead on wildy flailing around and hiting a bonus good pick every 5 or 6 we got solid value up and down the draft.

Not everyone of them will set the world on fire but bottom line our draft is now in the top 10 instead of bottom ten and that means that sooner or later we will be a top 10 team not a bottom 5 team.

 

[BACH]

I dont think all of those guys have to be starters. You arent going to get a starter from rounds 1 through 7, that just isnt possible. We you have to hope for is for starters in rounds 1 and 2 and maybe round 3 as well later on and solid contributers and depth in the laters rounds.

With that I think that Smith and McCoy have already proven to be good backups and excelled when needed to. As for Mitchell he hasnt had the playing time to be in a successfull situation but he is the teams 2nd leading special teams tackler, that is pretty good value for a really late 5th round pick.

As for the day one picks, Blackstock, JJ, Step, Dockett, and Brown. Step is a 3rd rounder and isnt a starter but can be argued he would make a pretty good backup, thats not great value for a 3rd rounder but it is still better then average. Blackstock with his one chacne starting played well and has showed some great promise, for a very late 3rd rounder for his first year lookslike pretty good value. Dockett was a good value his first year, but regressed having a down year compared to last, will he recover from his sophmore slump. He is still good value for a 3rd round pick though. Brown has showed progress but he was a 3rd rounder for a reason he needs seasoning, but he has showed progress for the future, another good value IMO. As for JJ you would like a little more production then he has had, but he to has showed progress and are the coaches doing the smart think in bringing him along slowly?

Just the fact that 20 of the 21 players drafted in the last 3 drafts shows that we have had some great drafts. I really like the idea of drafting players that slide on draft day. Dansby, Dockett, Green and Blackstock have all provide nice value.

BTW. Step and Brown were both 4th rounders....

 

[joeshmo]

Why? Because he's worse that Ross and Wakefield at RT? Oh, wait, he's not...so it must be that you celebrated the fact the Bidwills saved some money. Weeeee! Someone else is richer and our offensive line is worse! What fun!

Shelton as a RT, blah. He played just as good at RT as has a healthy Ross IMO. Shelton is not suited for the RT role at all. But as a LT it isnt even fair. But I agree he should not have been let go without someone giving us compensation for him. There is no way we shouldnt have been given at least a conditional pick. We had the money to keep him and he seemed to not be the type of guy that would cause a problem in the locker room if not happy.

And no one saved any money, did you see what they are paying Ross.

 

[Duckjake]

Why? Because he's worse that Ross and Wakefield at RT? Oh, wait, he's not...so it must be that you celebrated the fact the Bidwills saved some money. Weeeee! Someone else is richer and our offensive line is worse! What fun!

I thought he was worse than Ross and Wakefield at RT. Now he was probably just as good as either Ross or Wakefield at RT.

But knowing the Cards they probably couldn't run block if they did play with two guys at RT.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I almost forgot the 'Shelton would have been our savior' commentary, almost as funny as the similar Kendall arguments from a year ago.

 

[Pariah]

I almost forgot the 'Shelton would have been our savior' commentary, almost as funny as the similar Kendall arguments from a year ago.

Get over it. No one said that these guys alone would be a "saviour," just that without them our line is weaker and paper thin. It's all relative, and when you prop those guys up against what we have behind our starters, they look pretty good.