Grizzles vs Suns 1/19

[AZZenny]

Pick up their game? Locate it! Bring in the search and rescue dogs! Fire up the GPS!

For a few minutes here and there they looked vaguely familiar, but mostly, they looked - well, stunningly inept.

I can't believe that the only reason they ever run and shoot like real NBA players is Steve Nash. Mind-boggling.

 

[jibikao]

Mmmmm, just checked out NBA.com.

Griz only shot 38% and we shot EVEN WORSE... at 33%??? WTF?

Was Griz's defense that good or we were just plain COLD?

Man.... 5 loss in a row. We are behind Spurs now. sigh....


Is Nash's impact on the team THAT scary? This is beyond scary... really. I mean I thought they were tired on the road and didn't perform that well but we shot even worse at HOME. WTF.

This is getting REALLY ugly....

 

[Chaz]

Mmmmm, just checked out NBA.com.

Griz only shot 38% and we shot EVEN WORSE... at 33%??? WTF?

Was Griz's defense that good or we were just plain COLD?

Man.... 5 loss in a row. We are behind Spurs now. sigh....


Is Nash's impact on the team THAT scary? This is beyond scary... really. I mean I thought they were tired on the road and didn't perform that well but we shot even worse at HOME. WTF.

This is getting REALLY ugly....

Bad breaks, shots going in and out, missed layups, and to many offensive rebounds for Memphis.

 

[binkar]

Should be a fun game to watch/listen to!

You say this EVERY game

 

[minercon]

Amare's game has gone into the tank....and it is not because Nash has not been playing. I began to notice it about 2 games before Nash went down. He is not dunking and seems to have lost his energy. At first I thought maybe he was coming down with a cold as some of the players have had one of late. He is not right. Does one point guard make that big of a difference for this team?

Originally I was dead set against getting Nash. I don't like paying multi bucks for a point guard.....felt the money could be better spent on a center....was I wrong!

As many of you have said...we aren't boxing out, not getting the rebounds, lousy at the 3 point line, and everyone is in a funk.

 

[Joe Mama]

Bad breaks, shots going in and out, missed layups, and to many offensive rebounds for Memphis.

Normally I don't dismiss losses that easily, but I agree with you. Unlike the previous losses where the Suns were outplayed in about every facet of the game I think they lost last night's game because they weren't making shots they usually do make. I thought they're shooting would improve on their home court, but apparently I was wrong.

Q picked a great time to go into one of his shooting lulls. almost all of his three-point attempts last night were wide open. He's just cold. uses still not great on defense, but his rebounding has been very good.

Like the other Shawn Marion just couldn't get anything to go into the basket last night. For the most part his shot selection was good. Simply put, nothing would fall. Same thing goes for JJ. He wasn't taking bad shots. In fact he and Shawn Marion had a lot of good looks at the basket. Their shots wouldn't drop though.

If just one of those guys have been able to shoot the ball decently last night the Suns would have beaten the grizzlies last night. the Suns continued to struggle on the defensive forwards, but their defense looked pretty good. Memphis missed some open shots as well, but most of the credit for the grizzlies' poor shooting percentage should go to the Phoenix Suns defense.

Does anyone still think that Amare Stoudemire is a legitimate MVP candidate? His defense and rebounding were yet again quite pathetic. I won't complain too much about his offense because when the other guys are missing open shots regularly the defenses just pack everything into the middle. Of course it would have helped if he could make a midrange jump shot himself.

I'm still not discouraged by this team. Without the team MVP/Main Man 50 Grand, Steve Nash, the Suns have had to face 4 teams with a combined 29-11 record over the last 10 games. On top of that they played three of those games on the road in a short period of time. I just hope at some point D'Antoni realizes that his team needs some sort of half-court offensive system they can fall back on when the running game isn't going.

Now even with Steve Nash I expect San Antonio to kill the Suns Friday night. Unless they catch fire from outside I think the Suns will lose by 15-20 points. I still won't be discouraged though. As I said after their last meeting I think that is just a very bad matchup for Phoenix even with Steve Nash in the lineup.

Joe Mama

 

[AZZenny]

Does anyone still think that Amare Stoudemire is a legitimate MVP candidate?

Nope.

 

[jibikao]

Normally I don't dismiss losses that easily, but I agree with you. Unlike the previous losses where the Suns were outplayed in about every facet of the game I think they lost last night's game because they weren't making shots they usually do make. I thought they're shooting would improve on their home court, but apparently I was wrong.

Q picked a great time to go into one of his shooting lulls. almost all of his three-point attempts last night were wide open. He's just cold. uses still not great on defense, but his rebounding has been very good.

Like the other Shawn Marion just couldn't get anything to go into the basket last night. For the most part his shot selection was good. Simply put, nothing would fall. Same thing goes for JJ. He wasn't taking bad shots. In fact he and Shawn Marion had a lot of good looks at the basket. Their shots wouldn't drop though.

If just one of those guys have been able to shoot the ball decently last night the Suns would have beaten the grizzlies last night. the Suns continued to struggle on the defensive forwards, but their defense looked pretty good. Memphis missed some open shots as well, but most of the credit for the grizzlies' poor shooting percentage should go to the Phoenix Suns defense.

Does anyone still think that Amare Stoudemire is a legitimate MVP candidate? His defense and rebounding were yet again quite pathetic. I won't complain too much about his offense because when the other guys are missing open shots regularly the defenses just pack everything into the middle. Of course it would have helped if he could make a midrange jump shot himself.

I'm still not discouraged by this team. Without the team MVP/Main Man 50 Grand, Steve Nash, the Suns have had to face 4 teams with a combined 29-11 record over the last 10 games. On top of that they played three of those games on the road in a short period of time. I just hope at some point D'Antoni realizes that his team needs some sort of half-court offensive system they can fall back on when the running game isn't going.

Now even with Steve Nash I expect San Antonio to kill the Suns Friday night. Unless they catch fire from outside I think the Suns will lose by 15-20 points. I still won't be discouraged though. As I said after their last meeting I think that is just a very bad matchup for Phoenix even with Steve Nash in the lineup.

Joe Mama

I really don't know what to say. I really don't think this team would lose so many games without Nash. I am a Nash fan but I REFUSE to think Suns is that bad without Nash. Suns performs WORSE in almost every category. We are not talking about 1-5pt differences, we are talking about 25%-30% drop in almost all categories. This is beyond scary. I mean Kobe-less Lakers even won a few games... sigh.

I do think that the opponents we played are better but our average loss doesn't seem like we are even "close" to beat the team. We got blown our 2-3 times.

I have to admit that I have HIGH expectation on Wed's game against Griz with or WITHOUT Nash. With Nash, I expect a blowout win, without Nash, I expect a close win. But instead, we lost by 9pts...

Ok, so our defense gets better by holding the opponents under 40% but what about our offense? 33%!!!!!

I don't know if the team knows how to use Amare effectively besides Nash. He only took 11 shots in 36mins. That's no way to be effective for him. Amare is an offense machine at this moment so if he can't produce offensively, I don't know what he can do (boxing out?). Obviously our shots don't go in so I don't know why didn't make plays for Amare. At least Amare going inside may draw fouls... and I don't expect us getting any offensive rebounds if we miss.

I still strongly believe that the team is suffering from some kind of Mental Disease. The players have had it TOO GOOD with Nash. They don't need to work hard for their shots because Nash will set up for them. The team doesn't need to run WITHOUT THE BALL because Nash penetrates the defense for them and all they need to do is to shoot the ball.

In the game against Spurs, they know how to frustrate Nash and secure most of the passing lanes. In that case, if we can't play any half court offense, we are DOOMED. Period. Nash can play half court games but if the players just stand there waiting for him to creat SOMETHING, they are wrong. I see that too many times in Mavs playoffs game. All the players were just standing there waiting for Nash to create something. He ain't GOD you know.

I don't know what to expect on Friday. I hope we can light up the SOLAR ENERGY inside us and kick Spurs butt to prove that we are on track again. I mean we can lose all these 5 games but if we win ONE Spurs game, people will believe in us AGAIN and I think we can beat Spurs. They are not that dominating. I refuse to think that way. Spurs is not the Bulls. Anybody has a chance to beat Spurs. Spurs has weakness. Their perimeter defense and pick&roll defense are weak. Duncan is not good at rotating and that's why Sonics kicked their butts. This also means if Q puts up another 0/7 game, we are doomed.

 

[SirStefan32]

Does anyone still think that Amare Stoudemire is a legitimate MVP candidate?

Nope.

Nope, not even close. He doesn't even deserve to be an all-star let alone MVP. Without Nash, he's been pretty much useless, along with Johnson, Marion, and Richardson.

They flat out suck. You'd think that they would figure out a way to adjust to playing without Nash in five bloody games.

Disgusting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nope, not even close. He doesn't even deserve to be an all-star let alone MVP. Without Nash, he's been pretty much useless, along with Johnson, Marion, and Richardson.

They flat out suck. You'd think that they would figure out a way to adjust to playing without Nash in five bloody games.

Disgusting.

well, the flat out sucking part is kinda harsh (even if arguably true), but man i gotta agree, in five games you gotta figure sumpin' out. seems d'antoni is somewhat exposed as a purely systems coach. he's got his system and if it don't work he can't make adjustments. bummer.

 

[Chaplin]

Nope, not even close. He doesn't even deserve to be an all-star let alone MVP. Without Nash, he's been pretty much useless, along with Johnson, Marion, and Richardson.

They flat out suck. You'd think that they would figure out a way to adjust to playing without Nash in five bloody games.

Disgusting.

Well you're REAL favorite team is doing ok, so why don't you watch them instead?

 

[SirStefan32]

You are refering to????

 

[jibikao]

Nope, not even close. He doesn't even deserve to be an all-star let alone MVP. Without Nash, he's been pretty much useless, along with Johnson, Marion, and Richardson.

They flat out suck. You'd think that they would figure out a way to adjust to playing without Nash in five bloody games.

Disgusting.

Wow wow.... hold on. This is a bit too harsh. I know we lost 5 games but you sound like we are the weakest team in NBA. lol

5 games is not enough to adjust the system they've been so familar with for the past 30+ games. And besides, they played on a very tiring Road Trip. Last night is the only game they should have won because they were at home and they have no excuse for "no time to rest" or "no practice".

It's a good test for the young guys.

 

[Wally]

....

Does anyone still think that Amare Stoudemire is a legitimate MVP candidate? His defense and rebounding were yet again quite pathetic. I won't complain too much about his offense because when the other guys are missing open shots regularly the defenses just pack everything into the middle. Of course it would have helped if he could make a midrange jump shot himself.

I'm still not discouraged by this team. Without the team MVP/Main Man 50 Grand, Steve Nash, the Suns have had to face 4 teams with a combined 29-11 record over the last 10 games. On top of that they played three of those games on the road in a short period of time. I just hope at some point D'Antoni realizes that his team needs some sort of half-court offensive system they can fall back on when the running game isn't going.

Now even with Steve Nash I expect San Antonio to kill the Suns Friday night. Unless they catch fire from outside I think the Suns will lose by 15-20 points. I still won't be discouraged though. As I said after their last meeting I think that is just a very bad matchup for Phoenix even with Steve Nash in the lineup.

Joe Mama

Joe,
I think that with Nash back & if we see about a 25 minute time of Amare & Hunter on the floor at the same time we can get the win against SA.

In Amare's defense, he made it clear from the start that he didn't want to be the center of this team and he has expressed it again during the season. He is getting beat up on a daily basis and my guess is he's reflecting this in his play.

Two bigs in the game at the same time causes problems for the opposing team and I prefer Hunter over Jake, Vroman & Lampe at this time. D'Antoni sees two bigs as somthing that slows the team down. On the other hand, D'Antoni has said that "the coaches" were going to work Vroman into the lineup. This was before last night's loss and a DNP for Vroman.

 

[Chaz]

In Amare's defense, he made it clear from the start that he didn't want to be the center of this team and he has expressed it again during the season. He is getting beat up on a daily basis and my guess is he's reflecting this in his play.

So his worst game of the season was the one where they did start a center?

This makes no sense.

Amare was just not aggressive last night. He would get an offense rebound and dribble it out and reset the offense instead of attacking the basket. I don't know what the reason was.

Tired or concussed or something.

 

[AZZenny]

LOL - I wondered if he's as stunned and nonplussed by how freaking BAD they are without Nash as the rest of us - if it crumbles our sand castle, think what it must be like for some of the players, to discover that as a group they 'flat out suck' without little Stevie, that all their self-proclaimed talent, athleticism, rahrah gets them exactly nowhere. Not only have to shake their self-confidence, but I would think it has to rattle their confidence in the coaches and each other.

 

[jibikao]

Did anybody think maybe Amare is saving energy for Friday night?

I mean they really have played a lot of games.

Winning Spurs will get rid of almost all the negative images we have now. Yes, we lose when Nash is out but Nash is not out for like 1 or 2 weeks. Nash is not that injury proned and his injury will only make our priority straight - we need a backup PG and Barbosa is not good enough this year.

 

[Skkorpion]

Missing the point guard doesn't explain not blocking out, not getting to loose balls, not rebounding, or other ills. Maybe the bubble really has burst. We'll see.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Missing the point guard doesn't explain not blocking out, not getting to loose balls, not rebounding, or other ills. Maybe the bubble really has burst. We'll see.

Actually, I think it does. In a running game, these ills of poor coaching are definitely smoothed over. Against well coached and disciplined teams, in a slow down game, even when the teams have inferior talent, it is no surprise teams such as Utah and Memphis beat the Suns. They are a fundimentally poor team that hides it with unparalleled athleticism, and most importantly Nash, the catalyst of the running game. Really, as exciting as this year has been, does this really shock anyone?

 

[AZZenny]

You mean poor in the fundamentals, as opposed to fundamentally poor players, I assume.
Damn those fundamentals, first they sink the DBacks, now they trip up the Suns.

But I have to sort of agree - much as I like DAntoni's wit and appreciate the game he's gotten them to play, and even his guts for pushing it so hard, this little belch in the road really made me wonder if he can adapt to changed circumstances, adjust the style to the players he has, coach them to their strengths rather than throw his hands up in the air and pray for a Nash clone. It really makes them look undisciplined and unschooled.

One Trick Pony?

 

[elindholm]

Really, as exciting as this year has been, does this really shock anyone?

I'm not shocked by the basic issue, but I am shocked by the degree. The team just looks flat-out awful. I figured they'd still look like a low playoff seed without Nash. After all, they have looked okay this season when he's been resting during games.

 

[baltimorer]

Really, as exciting as this year has been, does this really shock anyone?

I'm not shocked by the basic issue, but I am shocked by the degree. The team just looks flat-out awful. I figured they'd still look like a low playoff seed without Nash. After all, they have looked okay this season when he's been resting during games.

Why would they be a playoff seed?

This is basically the same team that played last year after the Marbury trade. They might even be worse, because they signed Q but also lost McDyse, who had some nice games and added muscle and an overall presence downlow.

Steve Nash gets guys dunks, and a dunk is the most energizing play in basketball. Not only does it energize the crowd, which infuses energy in the players by itself, but it also energizes the team. It's a lot easier to dig down on defense when you've just flushed the ball through the rim on a half-court alley-oop pass from Nash than when you've just clanked another 18-footer. That's not to give all the credit to Nash, because without the athleticism of Amare, Q, Hunter, and Marion, most of these plays wouldn't happen. However, Nash brings the best out of players, and the same cannot be said of Leandro Barbosa.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

They deleted Dice, but added Hunter who has a similar role on this team. It isn't like Dice was playing 30mpg.

Plus, you have to figure in player improvements. This team is so young that a lot of players had an improvement over the summer.

JJ and Amare both should be a lot better. Barbosa should be as well, but injuries and sickness has hurt him a lot this year. Casey is playing better then usual too.


Anyways, this team isn't playing like it used to. That isn't all on Nash being gone, but I think it is related. I bet the players are fighting a psychological battle with themselves right now. They need to prove to themselves that can still play their game without Nash. No one expects them to win a ton, but they should be around .500 without him and not look completely lost 95% of the game.

 

[jibikao]

They deleted Dice, but added Hunter who has a similar role on this team. It isn't like Dice was playing 30mpg.

Plus, you have to figure in player improvements. This team is so young that a lot of players had an improvement over the summer.

JJ and Amare both should be a lot better. Barbosa should be as well, but injuries and sickness has hurt him a lot this year. Casey is playing better then usual too.


Anyways, this team isn't playing like it used to. That isn't all on Nash being gone, but I think it is related. I bet the players are fighting a psychological battle with themselves right now. They need to prove to themselves that can still play their game without Nash. No one expects them to win a ton, but they should be around .500 without him and not look completely lost 95% of the game.

Exactly!! There were many moments when Nash was resting on the bench. I refuse to think Suns is only a 3-tier team when Nash is not playing. We may not beat the elite teams but who can without their star player?

I think the young players are just going through mental battles right now. That happens to all inexperience, young players but when they fought through this Mental Wall, they will flourish just like they did in the first 31 games.

Nash is coming back tomorrow and this should help the young players to gain back their confidence, We may even see Q's streaky threes!!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Really, as exciting as this year has been, does this really shock anyone?

I'm not shocked by the basic issue, but I am shocked by the degree. The team just looks flat-out awful. I figured they'd still look like a low playoff seed without Nash. After all, they have looked okay this season when he's been resting during games.

Yeah, I suppose in terms of degree it is surprising. I mean, to go from a team that was embarassing almost everyone in the league to a team that is worse than mediocre, it's amazing. You could see in games where the tempo would slow down though, that the Suns would often go on huge runs by running the other team out of the gym, then slow the game down, and the other team would work their way back into the game, even pretty bad teams. Then, the Suns would pick up the tempo, and win handily, ala professional wrestling.

The most disappointing aspect of this, by far, is the complete void of any leadership with the loss of Nash. Marion and Q have regressed, and seem to hurt the team more than help them. This isn't a huge shock, because this is more like Marion looked like last year and why many of us were willing to trade him. Worst of all, Amare seems to be more and more disinterested as the season goes on. Even without Nash, in the last few months last year, he dominated pretty much every game. Since Nash has been out, he has looked completely lost. I'd love to have him watch Dwight Howard, another high schooler with less experience, box out and play defense.

Look, I think IF this team stays healthy, and can get the running game started, they have an excellent chance of beating a team first round, but beware a well coached and disciplined team, that can slow down the Suns. I expect this team to win first round, but lose in the second, a good accomplishment, but still, I feel that with a few moves before the trading deadline, and the consistent use of the bench from the beginning of the season, that this team had the potential to do more than a one and done this year. At this point, I am sure all of us expected a hell of a lot more from the bench, and at least a few of the players to step up. Most of the guys on the bench now look like guys that won't be in the NBA in a few years, it's just a shame that they haven't had any opportunity to grow this year, especially a guy like Lampe, who has shown progression, like in the New Jersey game.

My brief thoughts on the season so far.