Grizzlies trying to dump...

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fordronken

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Chaplin said:
This post smacks of defeatism. If this team had been together 3 years already and had a horrid record against San Antonio, then I think your post applies. But right now? Ridiculous.

What will this team be like next year? It will be pretty awesome, actually--we'll see A LOT of national games on television and a lot of attention on us. We will have a year of experience under our belts. We will have a legitimate MVP candidate in Amare Stoudemire. We will have 4 guys worth of being All-Stars.

Next year might not see a big difference in who's on the team, but the Phoenix Suns in 2005-2006 are going to be one of the top 3 teams in the NBA. Count on it. I guarantee our chances in this series would have increased tenfold if this team had a year of experience under their belts.

I tend to agree with you. But as I said, I'm just a little scared about whether this type of team has the ability to beat a team like San Antonio. And if there were changes that needed to be made to create a more conventional lineup, it seems like now would be the time, while all our players are probably as valuable as they will ever be. I just don't want look three years from now, as Steve Nash begins to severely decline and say, "They just couldn't do it with that style."

I'm probably wrong. I hope I am. There isn't anybody in the world who wouldn't rather see this starting five win a championship next year, or any year. This team brought me more fun and joy than I've had from a basketball team, probably ever. But three or four straight 60 win seasons and conference finals exits would mean a lot less to me than any one championship. I really don't know what would give the Suns a better chance, but I'm openly wondering. I'm not trying to sound defeatist, I just think this team has a window to win a championship, and I don't know whether not making certain moves would close that window considerably.

Chalk it up as losing-series-emotions if you want. But I'm just debating, maybe mostly with myself, what it will take to give this team the best possible chance of winning a title.
 

Chaplin

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I think you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

This team is capable of playing great defense. We've shown that--we just don't do it anything near consistent. If we play defense like we can play CONSISTENTLY, then we will be unstoppable.

Can you imagine Amare NOT being afraid of fouling? I think one of the biggest things were missing on the defensive side of the floor is not skills, it's CONFIDENCE. None of our guys, except with maybe Joe Johnson, is great at deciding to do something and then sticking with it (that's probably not exactly true--once Amare decides to become the scorer, he REALLY becomes the scorer!).

We need an attitude adjustment, not a major trade. Again.
 
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fordronken

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Chaplin said:
I think you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

This team is capable of playing great defense. We've shown that--we just don't do it anything near consistent. If we play defense like we can play CONSISTENTLY, then we will be unstoppable.

Can you imagine Amare NOT being afraid of fouling? I think one of the biggest things were missing on the defensive side of the floor is not skills, it's CONFIDENCE. None of our guys, except with maybe Joe Johnson, is great at deciding to do something and then sticking with it (that's probably not exactly true--once Amare decides to become the scorer, he REALLY becomes the scorer!).

We need an attitude adjustment, not a major trade. Again.

I hope you're right, and I hope it happens.
 

frankiekazoo

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not a snowball's chance in hell are they going to blow this team up. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Suns are gonna stick with this style of play no matter what.

All we need is some depth; i honestly feel Hunter could be the guy - well, at least half the guy - for next year. We still start stoudemire and Marion at the 5 and 4, learn to incorporate a real five for around 15 - 30 minutes a game, play some defense, maintain the run and gun, and once the WCF's hit next year (cause we are going there again...and again...and again), with the better defense and better 1-1 defender we can throw at Duncan, along with the greater experience and confidence of the existing guys, we'll be right.
Only issue is cost of course - that becomes clearer in time.

As for now we are tinkering, not self destructing.
 

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Marc Stein on the offseason:
______________________

SAN ANTONIO -- The story has been told more than once this season, but the storytellers don't always get Amare Stoudemire's killer quote just right.

To punctuate his plea to Steve Nash to come to Phoenix last July, in a room filled with Suns lobbyists, this is what Stoudemire really said:

"We get you," Amare told Nash, "and it's a wrap."

Translation: Phoenix gets Nash, Amare announced, and the city can start planning championship parades.

Swiping Nash from the Mavs was a huge step. Now comes the hard part: building on this season's success.
It sounded outlandish at the time, even to Nash, but it turns out Stoudemire wasn't far off. In Year 1 of Nash's second stint as a Sun, with Nash not even unanimously expected to make Phoenix a playoff team, Stoudemire and his new pick-and-roll partner led the Suns to the best record in the league and into the Western Conference finals.

So even if they can't do the impossible and rally out of a 3-0 hole in these Western Conference finals -- a deficit from which no team in NBA history has ever rallied to win a series -- they will still have come a lot closer to wrapping up a title than anyone except the braggadocious Stoudemire dared to imagine.

Only now the Suns also know, by getting reasonably close, how much more it's going to take to put the ultimate seal on a season.

It's going to take a lot more money, for starters.

As all contending teams discover eventually, NBA contention is expensive. Just keeping this group together will be costly for new Suns owner Robert Sarver, who already splashed out a shade under $110 million in guaranteed deals last summer to add Nash and Quentin Richardson to the Stoudemire-Shawn Marion-Joe Johnson triumvirate.

The pieces snapped together better than anyone in the desert could have dreamed, but it only gets more pricey from here. Stoudemire is soon eligible for a contract extension that will undoubtedly make him a maximum-salary player. Johnson is a free agent, too, who's likely to command an average yearly salary richer than Richardson's $7 million, with the only break tied to the possibility that contract lengths could be shorter in the league's next collective-bargaining agreement.

Either way, Phoenix is soon looking at a starting lineup in which no one earns less than that $7 million annually. Which doesn't even account for the obvious upgrades the Suns need on their bench to compete with a deep contender like San Antonio.

"We've accomplished everything we accomplished this season with the fourth-lowest payroll in the league, and that's obviously something we're proud of," said Suns president Bryan Colangelo. "But we know the reality is that it won't last like that forever, because with success comes payment to those who've made you successful.

"We've got a new owner who understands what it's all about. We fully intend to do everything possible to keep our core together."

The Spurs faced a similar reality after winning their 2003 championship, with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili still on their rookie contracts. Spurs owner Peter Holt, like Sarver a staunch advocate of staying as far as away from luxury-tax territory as possible, has since extended himself farther than ever before, re-signing Parker and Ginobili to extensions worth a combined $118 million.

Even with Parker, Ginobili and newcomer Brent Barry taking less money to be with the Spurs than they probably could have received elsewhere -- and with Bruce Bowen actually reducing his annual salary in exchange for some added security to help make room for Barry -- San Antonio is looking at a franchise-record payroll in the $60 million range for the 2006-07 season. That's a virtual certainty if the Spurs, as you'd expect, sign Nazr Mohammed to an extension.

Soon Sarver will have to decide how far he's willing to go. And with the league office pushing for an even more stringent luxury tax in the next labor agreement, pushing the payroll toward the $60 million mark could take the actual costs well past $70 million.

The good news? Nash and Stoudemire form an enticing base to build around, like Tim Duncan down here. It's quite conceivable that veteran free agents will be willing to take a bit less to come to sunny Phoenix in future off-seasons, as Barry did for the chance to play with Duncan, because Nash is so fun to play with and because of Stoudemire's seemingly limitless potential.

As Spurs coach Gregg Popovich gushed earlier in this series, Nash and Stoudemire "are making (John) Stockton and (Karl) Malone look like Laurel and Hardy out there with their pick-and-roll this season."

Factor in Marion's versatility, as an All-Star power forward who does it with a three-man's frame, and the Suns have a trio that should keep them among the West's elite for a while, no matter who else surrounds those three ... and even if Johnson, a restricted free agent, is unexpectedly set free. It's the finishing of Stoudemire and Marion - with an assist from the league's crackdown on physical contact on the perimeter -- that separates the Suns from Nash's old team in Dallas and Sacramento and any of their recent run-first forerunners. Unlike the Mavericks and Kings, Phoenix is a high-octane team that consistently scores at the rim. The Suns proved it again Game 3, their only game below triple digits in the playoffs so far, when the stat sheet nonetheless credited the visitors with a 54-50 edge in points in the paint, even when it seemed as though San Antonio had shredded Phoenix inside.

Yet the holes are undeniable. The Suns have virtually no bench beyond thirtysomething swingman Jim Jackson and can't survive long-term relying almost exclusively on five or six guys. And when faced with a precision opponent in the Spurs' class, Phoenix has found its lack of interior defense to be fatal. Which explains why Colangelo, even before this series started, acknowledged that "we won't stop looking for a true five" to allow Stoudemire to return to his natural power forward spot, as Amare desires.

Colangelo, though, believes that the Suns have already completed the toughest task by luring Nash away from the Mavericks and pairing him with Stoudemire to establish the platform.

"We are a work in progress whereas San Antonio is a more defined product," Colangelo said. "But we've progressed a lot further a lot faster than anyone anticipated. It gives you a taste of what winning is like. And with a piece like Steve in place, you want to try to keep this thing together. Barring any kind of (major) injury, you can forecast a very nice run for this franchise."

Said Marion: "I'm not the owner. I'm not the GM. All I can say is I think they see something special being started here.

"They love it. The fans love it. Everybody loves it."

Nash included. His first reaction to the Stoudemire sales pitch back in July was to stifle a laugh in front of the Suns' recruiters, because he couldn't believe what he was hearing from the kid. He couldn't believe Stoudemire would speak so matter-of-factly about working on his game to the point that defenses would have to triple-team him.

Yet the more he listened, Nash was moved. And sold. "I like your confidence," he told Stoudemire.

Now the confidence comes from Nash. Asked about the Suns' future on the eve of a Game 4 that could end his storybook season, the reigning MVP insists that this won't be the peak.

"We're going to learn from what's happened (against the Spurs) and keep growing," Nash said, dismissing fears that his bosses won't keeping adding to the core.

"I think we're going to keep doing good things."
 

Treesquid PhD

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I would like to see the core together for a few years before we start trading away everybody again. It seems many have already forgotten what a great season this has been as one poster put it, I find it funny that so many are ready to trade Marion, let JJ go and or trade Q. For a slower team with marginally backups or old men like Dalembiert (Sorry he is a back up) and PJ Brown.

You remove a piece of the core and who says this will be a team that even gets as far as they did? Moving key pieces in and out surely can't be favorable to chemistry every year.

Holes? Yep but they should fill them with Better Role players not deal away starters after a trip to the WCF...I mean were we not bitching about JC and BC for not keeping the core together just last year? The outrage was there for Tony Delk, Rodney Rodgers, Steph, etc.. I don't see how there cannot be more advocation for keeping the core and improving the bench.

Many on this board want to give poor perfroming players like Barbosa ( He will NEVER be a star, I would bet you my car and house) more time but want to blow up the core of the team after getting beat by a great team like SA (who has built a core). Sorry but I totally do not understand this mentality.
 
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