Groin injury during Suns game to sideline Ginobili

[ambchang_]

You are now a troll in my eyes. Good job on that.

Just give me a break. Saying that people are unhappy with the Suns being eliminated by the Spurs is a troll? I am sure the Suns fans were all so upset for the Spurs for being hammered by the Nuggets throughout the first round, right? Suns fans root for beautiful basketball, and any physical contact is frowned upon, right?

Do yourself a favour, go get some tape of the 2007 1st round series between the Spurs and the Nuggets, the Spurs dishes as much as they take, but you don't hear about it. Do you know why? Because we don't have a 6'10" 250lb PF/C who goes whining to the media every time there was physical contact.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Do yourself a favour, go get some tape of the 2007 1st round series between the Spurs and the Nuggets, the Spurs dishes as much as they take, but you don't hear about it. Do you know why? Because we don't have a 6'10" 250lb PF/C who goes whining to the media every time there was physical contact.

You are correct. Timmay is 6'11" 260lbs. What constitutes "whining to the media"? Just so we are on even terms. Is it calling a press conference? Answering a question? Talking to a reporter at all? Complaining to the ref? Complaining to anyone about a ref? Let us know, please.

 

[mojorizen7]

armchair trollish behaior should be dealt with accordingly.....

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[ArizonaSportsFan]

Just give me a break. Saying that people are unhappy with the Suns being eliminated by the Spurs is a troll?

No. Of course we were unhappy about being eliminated by the Spurs, and especially soured on how it happened. Isn't that understandable? What IS trollish behavior is coming into the vistors site and calling their All-NBA first team player weak, childish, stupid, ignorant, baby, etc and calling out the fans for believing differently. Wouldn't that be YOUR definition of a troll, too?

Now, Bowen is also an all-NBA player on the defensive side, we just don't really agree on the tactics he uses to garner that vote. You think it great. We don't. No amount of video or diatribe is going to change that because we SEE things differently. Bowen used his elbow in a non-basketball play. Bowen used his forearm in a totally legitimate play. See how easy that is? Neither of us know how much it hurt, if at all. Amare didn't seem to mind any other screens - why would he pick that one, with the game well in hand and the Spurs embarassed, to embellish anything? Makes no sense to me. So I, as a fan, can only look at the result and what I can see. I can measure intent or pain or anything else.

One other thing before this thread gets closed as well. You love to bring up the heel kick from last year. If you actually watch the video, you can see the alleged kick and Amare's reaction to it live. He didn't know what happened, but he reacted like it was a slight sprain or something - kind of that one-footed "quick-hobble", if you know what I mean. It wasn't until after, when he watched the replays, that he saw what happened and was upset by it. He even said as much. Should he have said nothing? Perhaps. But he felt that it was an attempt to injure and he called Bowen on it. Not really "complaining" to the media in my view, but you are welcome to your opinion.

 

[Skkorpion]

I don't like Ginobili hurt because without him, it's unlikely the Spurs beat the Lakers in their last game and that could matter to us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The thing is, back in 2005, the Suns were not critical of the Spurs. most fans accepted that the Suns lost to a better team and moved on, then the whining starts, and it reached a fevered pitch last year.

people didn't whine in 2005 because the Spurs were still at their peak and didn't have to resort to what we saw last year. That 2005 team was probably their best. Horry and Barry were still very good role players and Duncan, Ginobli and Parker were pretty much as fresh and at the peak of their games, seemingly injury free, as opposed to the last couple years when each one of them have had breakdowns. Then, in 2006, no one was whining because, well, that was our "just happy to be there" year IMO where most Suns fans had zero expectations with Amare out. Not to mention, that again, the big 3 for the Spurs were in their prime.

However, last year, it seemed like for the first time, that the Spurs weren't beating us just playing basketball (like they had the previous two years). It seemed like (to me) that the Spurs became the guy at the gym who used to be awesome, but now age had caught up to him, and he became the old guy at the gym who would literally do anything he could to beat his opponent, even if it meant doing shady stuff (like kneeing a guy in the balls, kicking out someone's feet while they jump, body-checking...). And to be honest, I had no problem with that. I looked at last year's series this way, the Spurs started to wonder if they could beat us playing straight up clean basketball, so, being the smart team they were/are, they sought their edge in rising above us from a mental standpoint, frustrating us by beating us up, which literally took us out of our game. It's pretty much what a mediocre Knicks teams did to the Bulls back in 1992 when they had no business taking them to 7 games. I don't look at last year's series as an indictment against the Spurs. I look at it as "why were the Suns mentally weak enough to get goaded into a fight?" I also look at Amare's actions when the Spurs pulled this crap again on Wednesday as disconcerting because it seemed like he didn't learn his lesson from last year.

And again, I'm not pissed at Bowen for giving Amare an elbow to the chest. When physically you start losing your game, you turn to whatever aspect you can to derail your opponent and apparently, mentally, the Spurs can still get to some of our guys, thus they'll play that card until it fails them, as well they should. However, a lot of fans don't believe in "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" like I do or that a team has to do ANYTHING in their power to win, thus, last year and this year, after the Spurs resorted to that kind of ball, you see a lot of bitching.

My question is this. If these Suns fans haven't bitched about the Spurs previous to last year, as you acknowledged, and now are doing so, couldn't it also be that the Spurs have changed the way they've been playing the last two years as they've gotten a little longer in the tooth?

 

[jbeecham]

The Spurs didn't beat us in 06, the Mavs beat them and then we lost to the Mavs in the WCF. That was the year without Amare and we played the Lakers (1st rd) & Clippers (2nd rd).

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

people didn't whine in 2005 because the Spurs were still at their peak and didn't have to resort to what we saw last year. That 2005 team was probably their best. Horry and Barry were still very good role players and Duncan, Ginobli and Parker were pretty much as fresh and at the peak of their games, seemingly injury free, as opposed to the last couple years when each one of them have had breakdowns. Then, in 2006, no one was whining because, well, that was our "just happy to be there" year IMO where most Suns fans had zero expectations with Amare out. Not to mention, that again, the big 3 for the Spurs were in their prime.

However, last year, it seemed like for the first time, that the Spurs weren't beating us just playing basketball (like they had the previous two years). It seemed like (to me) that the Spurs became the guy at the gym who used to be awesome, but now age had caught up to him, and he became the old guy at the gym who would literally do anything he could to beat his opponent, even if it meant doing shady stuff (like kneeing a guy in the balls, kicking out someone's feet while they jump, body-checking...). And to be honest, I had no problem with that. I looked at last year's series this way, the Spurs started to wonder if they could beat us playing straight up clean basketball, so, being the smart team they were/are, they sought their edge in rising above us from a mental standpoint, frustrating us by beating us up, which literally took us out of our game. It's pretty much what a mediocre Knicks teams did to the Bulls back in 1992 when they had no business taking them to 7 games. I don't look at last year's series as an indictment against the Spurs. I look at it as "why were the Suns mentally weak enough to get goaded into a fight?" I also look at Amare's actions when the Spurs pulled this crap again on Wednesday as disconcerting because it seemed like he didn't learn his lesson from last year.

And again, I'm not pissed at Bowen for giving Amare an elbow to the chest. When physically you start losing your game, you turn to whatever aspect you can to derail your opponent and apparently, mentally, the Spurs can still get to some of our guys, thus they'll play that card until it fails them, as well they should. However, a lot of fans don't believe in "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" like I do or that a team has to do ANYTHING in their power to win, thus, last year and this year, after the Spurs resorted to that kind of ball, you see a lot of bitching.

My question is this. If these Suns fans haven't bitched about the Spurs previous to last year, as you acknowledged, and now are doing so, couldn't it also be that the Spurs have changed the way they've been playing the last two years as they've gotten a little longer in the tooth?

Well put, IMO, cheesebeef. Things have changed in the West, for the Suns as well as the Spurs. Interesting it will be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Spurs didn't beat us in 06, the Mavs beat them and then we lost to the Mavs in the WCF.

i know that, but we still played four (or three) times that season and no one was bitching about them then at the fever pitch they are now.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

The Spurs didn't beat us in 06, the Mavs beat them and then we lost to the Mavs in the WCF. That was the year without Amare and we played the Lakers (1st rd) & Clippers (2nd rd).

Right, but his point was in responding to ambchang that we didn't "whine" about the Spurs that year. We still wanted to beat them, of course. I still remember the block of Duncan by Diaw to preserve the win in Phx. Sarver was a little more calm that year as well.

 

[jbeecham]

I agree with his Cheese's points about 04-05 & 05-06, I just wanted to clarify that we didn't play them in the playoffs in 06.

04-05 we basically had 5 guys play all the minutes and played ultra-small all the time. I don't think any Suns fans expected us to beat the Spurs that year and we were just happy to watch how successful our team was. It really didn't help when Joe Johnson broke his eye socket in the Dallas series either.

05-06 Playing without Amare and trading Joe Johnson for Diaw & picks, signing Raja & KT (who missed the 2nd half of the year and basically all of the playoffs). I really didn't expect the Suns to make the playoffs, nevermind get to the WCF.....that was a real cinderella run. This was also the year Barbosa missed 20-25 games after Ginobilli flopped into his knee (Nov 21st 2005).

I think what started the majority of the bitching was when SA put Bowen on Nash and it became extremely apparent just how much fouling the Spurs got away with. When Bowen was guarding Marion, we didn't notice Bowen because Marion always disappeared against the Spurs. Once we saw bowen bumping, slapping & grabbing Nash on basically every single play without being called for fouls then the real bitching and hatred started.

 

[Evil Ash]

people didn't whine in 2005 because the Spurs were still at their peak and didn't have to resort to what we saw last year. That 2005 team was probably their best. Horry and Barry were still very good role players and Duncan, Ginobli and Parker were pretty much as fresh and at the peak of their games, seemingly injury free, as opposed to the last couple years when each one of them have had breakdowns. Then, in 2006, no one was whining because, well, that was our "just happy to be there" year IMO where most Suns fans had zero expectations with Amare out. Not to mention, that again, the big 3 for the Spurs were in their prime.

However, last year, it seemed like for the first time, that the Spurs weren't beating us just playing basketball (like they had the previous two years). It seemed like (to me) that the Spurs became the guy at the gym who used to be awesome, but now age had caught up to him, and he became the old guy at the gym who would literally do anything he could to beat his opponent, even if it meant doing shady stuff (like kneeing a guy in the balls, kicking out someone's feet while they jump, body-checking...). And to be honest, I had no problem with that. I looked at last year's series this way, the Spurs started to wonder if they could beat us playing straight up clean basketball, so, being the smart team they were/are, they sought their edge in rising above us from a mental standpoint, frustrating us by beating us up, which literally took us out of our game. It's pretty much what a mediocre Knicks teams did to the Bulls back in 1992 when they had no business taking them to 7 games. I don't look at last year's series as an indictment against the Spurs. I look at it as "why were the Suns mentally weak enough to get goaded into a fight?" I also look at Amare's actions when the Spurs pulled this crap again on Wednesday as disconcerting because it seemed like he didn't learn his lesson from last year.

And again, I'm not pissed at Bowen for giving Amare an elbow to the chest. When physically you start losing your game, you turn to whatever aspect you can to derail your opponent and apparently, mentally, the Spurs can still get to some of our guys, thus they'll play that card until it fails them, as well they should. However, a lot of fans don't believe in "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" like I do or that a team has to do ANYTHING in their power to win, thus, last year and this year, after the Spurs resorted to that kind of ball, you see a lot of bitching.

My question is this. If these Suns fans haven't bitched about the Spurs previous to last year, as you acknowledged, and now are doing so, couldn't it also be that the Spurs have changed the way they've been playing the last two years as they've gotten a little longer in the tooth?

I'll disagree with you somewhat in the "mentally weak" portion of this but I do agree with the majority of it. Amare and Diaw had a normal reaction to having their best player being hit with a cheap shot right in front of them. I'd expect pretty much anybody to react that way in that situation (Lakers if Kobe was hit like that, Duncan for the Spurs, etc).

The league reaction was bothered the overwhelming majority of us, especially with what happened in the offseason (more on that later). Their interpretation of a "rule not open for interpretation" ruined what was a very even series at the time. The Spurs were a damn good team and may very well have still won the series even without the incident. I'll even say that they were winning the series 3-2 with 3 legit wins but the result of game 5 still comes into question because of the league's (and specifically David Stern's) reaction to the incident strictly enforcing a poorly worded rule that left plenty of it up for interpretation. Then he went into a state of hiding and when speaking proved how much of self-absorbed jackass he was (and he still proves this almost daily now). That's what ruined a damn good series for Suns fans and casual fans alike.

The incident and the league's reaction now even looks worse after they didn't enforce a rule regarding the officials and gambling. These rules weren't written poorly and left little up for interpretation but still didn't enforce them and instead decided to change the rules instead allowing all of the refs (with one obvious exception) to keep their jobs. Hypocracy at its finest.

I would have loved to have seen what would have happened in a fair and what was to that point a very even series but unfortunately we'll never know. What a shame

The Spurs now have seemed to have become very old, very quickly and it now looks as though most teams have overtaken them. They just seem slow out there. Could things change come playoff time? Sure. The Spurs could be half-assing it until the playoffs for all we know. I just hope this time if we indeed do face them that we won't need a ruling from the league's front office again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll disagree with you somewhat in the "mentally weak" portion of this but I do agree with the majority of it. Amare and Diaw had a normal reaction to having their best player being hit with a cheap shot right in front of them. I'd expect pretty much anybody to react that way in that situation (Lakers if Kobe was hit like that, Duncan for the Spurs, etc).

It would have been a reaction to jump up and get pissed, but to run on the court and for Amare to REALLY push his way in there and have to be held back and then, almost get goaded into doing the same this this week to me screams mental weakness over composure and awareness. I actually don't think Diaw was going to fight. He seemed to react and then run (insert French joke here), but Amare was mentally weak (and unfortunately to me, continues to be so in really frustrating moments... fts, lapses in defense, wanting to fight Bowen again), there's no doubt in my mind about it.

As far as expecting anyone to react that way and bringing up Kobe... I didn't see a single Laker jump off the bench when Raja clotheslined Kobe. And that was about as cheap as cheap shots get and a hell of a lot more violent. Last year's team was just wound to tight and the Spurs applied the right pressure until they got them to explode. That's mental weakness. It's what the Heat did to the Knicks (led by Ewing and Starks who were as mentally weak as they get)

 

[ambchang_]

You are correct. Timmay is 6'11" 260lbs. What constitutes "whining to the media"? Just so we are on even terms. Is it calling a press conference? Answering a question? Talking to a reporter at all? Complaining to the ref? Complaining to anyone about a ref? Let us know, please.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...YSA060505.1C.BKNspurs.ginobili.2e1a8dfd4.html
http://community.foxsports.com/blog...are_Stoudemire_Adds_Fuel_To_San_Antonios_Fire
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2872357

I would call this whining to the media.

 

[Evil Ash]

It would have been a reaction to jump up and get pissed, but to run on the court and for Amare to REALLY push his way in there and have to be held back and then, almost get goaded into doing the same this this week to me screams mental weakness over composure and awareness. I actually don't think Diaw was going to fight. He seemed to react and then run (insert French joke here), but Amare was mentally weak (and unfortunately to me, continues to be so in really frustrating moments... fts, lapses in defense, wanting to fight Bowen again), there's no doubt in my mind about it.

As far as expecting anyone to react that way and bringing up Kobe... I didn't see a single Laker jump off the bench when Raja clotheslined Kobe. And that was about as cheap as cheap shots get and a hell of a lot more violent. Last year's team was just wound to tight and the Spurs applied the right pressure until they got them to explode. That's mental weakness. It's what the Heat did to the Knicks (led by Ewing and Starks who were as mentally weak as they get)

Fair enough. However I would like to point out that when a Spurs player was hit earlier in the game Tim Duncan and another Spurs player left the Spurs bench to argue (sorry my memory is failing me at the moment). Since there wasn't a fight the players weren't suspended.

So would it be fair to ask if that was "mental weakness" also?

I understand what you're saying and agree with the overwhelming majority of it but I still wish that we could see what would happen in a fair series. As you pointed out the Suns were no longer just cowering in fear to them.

 

[ambchang_]

No. Of course we were unhappy about being eliminated by the Spurs, and especially soured on how it happened. Isn't that understandable? What IS trollish behavior is coming into the vistors site and calling their All-NBA first team player weak, childish, stupid, ignorant, baby, etc and calling out the fans for believing differently. Wouldn't that be YOUR definition of a troll, too?

Quote me. Quote me where I have said Stoudemire is childish, stupid, ignorant, baby on this site. I may have made fun of him in being soft.

Now, Bowen is also an all-NBA player on the defensive side, we just don't really agree on the tactics he uses to garner that vote. You think it great. We don't. No amount of video or diatribe is going to change that because we SEE things differently. Bowen used his elbow in a non-basketball play. Bowen used his forearm in a totally legitimate play. See how easy that is? Neither of us know how much it hurt, if at all. Amare didn't seem to mind any other screens - why would he pick that one, with the game well in hand and the Spurs embarassed, to embellish anything? Makes no sense to me. So I, as a fan, can only look at the result and what I can see. I can measure intent or pain or anything else.

Of course it made sense, he had been crying about Bowen for a year. What I can say is that Stoudemire seems to be perfectly fine once the whistle was blow for a timeout. Great stuff.

One other thing before this thread gets closed as well. You love to bring up the heel kick from last year. If you actually watch the video, you can see the alleged kick and Amare's reaction to it live. He didn't know what happened, but he reacted like it was a slight sprain or something - kind of that one-footed "quick-hobble", if you know what I mean. It wasn't until after, when he watched the replays, that he saw what happened and was upset by it. He even said as much. Should he have said nothing? Perhaps. But he felt that it was an attempt to injure and he called Bowen on it. Not really "complaining" to the media in my view, but you are welcome to your opinion.

He didn't know he was kicked in the heel? This is awesome.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Fair enough. However I would like to point out that when a Spurs player was hit earlier in the game Tim Duncan and another Spurs player left the Spurs bench to argue (sorry my memory is failing me at the moment). Since there wasn't a fight the players weren't suspended.

So would it be fair to ask if that was "mental weakness" also?

It would be fair to ask, but the answer would still be no. I already said it's okay to jump up and get pissed, which is what Duncan did, barely ending up on the court before he backed off. But he in no way rushed the court the way Amare did. And if that did escalate into a fight (which it didn't because the Spurs WERE mentally tougher than we were and didn't take every little thing to be the end all be all) and Duncan still rushed the court, than yeah, it would have been weak. But it wasn't a fight, he didn't rush the court, so no it wasn't mentally weak.

 

[nashman]

If Amare is soft Ambdouche what the hell is your boy TD? Your a TOOL!

 

[Cheesewater]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...YSA060505.1C.BKNspurs.ginobili.2e1a8dfd4.html
http://community.foxsports.com/blog...are_Stoudemire_Adds_Fuel_To_San_Antonios_Fire
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2872357

I would call this whining to the media.

So anytime anyone is being interviewed and they say something you don't like or agree with it's whining? Hooray! We now know what is acceptable. Thank you thank you thank you.

 

[ambchang_]

(some level-headed explanation for what was felt, which I respect.
My question is this. If these Suns fans haven't bitched about the Spurs previous to last year, as you acknowledged, and now are doing so, couldn't it also be that the Spurs have changed the way they've been playing the last two years as they've gotten a little longer in the tooth?

The Spurs went 16-4 in last year's playoffs, which is really indicative of how well they are playing. The Nuggets series was 10x more physical than the Suns one, and the Jazz and Cavs series were also extremely physical. Nobody talked about it because opposing teams weren't crying about it. Go look at those tape, and I can guarantee that some fans will be hiding behind a pillow by seeing how those physically those games played.

If the Suns have not complained about the Spurs the last couple of years, chances are, nobody would be even talking about it.

The Spurs looks a little slow this year, but last year, they were at the top of their games.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...YSA060505.1C.BKNspurs.ginobili.2e1a8dfd4.html
http://community.foxsports.com/blog...are_Stoudemire_Adds_Fuel_To_San_Antonios_Fire
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2872357

I would call this whining to the media.

Seriously? These are your examples of whining to the media. The first has a paraphrase from Amare that says Manu did a "great acting job". He says himself in that article that he does a great acting job. "What Ginobili admits to occasionally doing is exaggerating contact that has already been made." Acting.

The second article is regarding Bowen's kick to Amare's heal. It is an opinion piece, which in my opinion was one-sided as to how one side was complaining and how the other would use it to their advantage. "Bruce Bowen does appear to make a kicking motion towards Amare on the play but why say something now?" Because perhaps someone asked him about it? Should Amare say "Nothing happened and we hope for more of the same?" The guy just got through a tough rehab stretch the previous season. Was he too sensitive? Perhaps. The facts are there. Either bury them or not. Why did Amare bring it up? Did someone in the Phx media ask him about it? The SA media? Well, why and how was it brought up? Oh, you don't know?

The third is about the suspension and might as well have been penned by Horry himself. That was a ridiculous article. Having Horry call someone out, or attempt to, for embellishment just takes the cake. I mean - wow! Stoudemire brings up Duncan because A LOT of people were bringing up Duncan and Bowen (I believe) leaving the bench and entering the floor when Elson was upended. The proof is there, it was deemed not suspendable, but Amare and the Suns felt slighted on that. Not dissimilar to winning at all costs, right? Like a hip check, and elbow, a knee, etc from the Spurs.

So please show some "whining to media" examples that amount to more than op-ed pieces.

Thanks.

 

[ambchang_]

So anytime anyone is being interviewed and they say something you don't like or agree with it's whining? Hooray! We now know what is acceptable. Thank you thank you thank you.

Unlike you, I never said that certain behaviour is acceptable or unacceptable.

And yeah, so what is your definition of whining? Didn't I see you talking about the Spurs being whiners? Is that acceptable btw?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The Spurs went 16-4 in last year's playoffs, which is really indicative of how well they are playing. The Nuggets series was 10x more physical than the Suns one, and the Jazz and Cavs series were also extremely physical. Nobody talked about it because opposing teams weren't crying about it. Go look at those tape, and I can guarantee that some fans will be hiding behind a pillow by seeing how those physically those games played.

If the Suns have not complained about the Spurs the last couple of years, chances are, nobody would be even talking about it.

The Spurs looks a little slow this year, but last year, they were at the top of their games.

The reason why there was so much complaining about that series, because it is not just the Suns fans complaining. Everyone but Spurs fans thought they got a raw deal. It's not that hard to understand. Seriously.

I understand that the Spurs/Nuggets series was physical. It wasn't completely one sided though either.

 

[ambchang_]

Seriously? These are your examples of whining to the media. The first has a paraphrase from Amare that says Manu did a "great acting job". He says himself in that article that he does a great acting job. "What Ginobili admits to occasionally doing is exaggerating contact that has already been made." Acting.

The second article is regarding Bowen's kick to Amare's heal. It is an opinion piece, which in my opinion was one-sided as to how one side was complaining and how the other would use it to their advantage. "Bruce Bowen does appear to make a kicking motion towards Amare on the play but why say something now?" Because perhaps someone asked him about it? Should Amare say "Nothing happened and we hope for more of the same?" The guy just got through a tough rehab stretch the previous season. Was he too sensitive? Perhaps. The facts are there. Either bury them or not. Why did Amare bring it up? Did someone in the Phx media ask him about it? The SA media? Well, why and how was it brought up? Oh, you don't know?

The third is about the suspension and might as well have been penned by Horry himself. That was a ridiculous article. Having Horry call someone out, or attempt to, for embellishment just takes the cake. I mean - wow! Stoudemire brings up Duncan because A LOT of people were bringing up Duncan and Bowen (I believe) leaving the bench and entering the floor when Elson was upended. The proof is there, it was deemed not suspendable, but Amare and the Suns felt slighted on that. Not dissimilar to winning at all costs, right? Like a hip check, and elbow, a knee, etc from the Spurs.

So please show some "whining to media" examples that amount to more than op-ed pieces.

Thanks.

I didn't go through what the articles were saying word by word, but the essense is:
Stoudemire complained about Ginobili as a flopper (he also said he was dirty after game 2 last year, which is a real noodle-scratcher).
He complained about Bowen being dirty after an incident where he couldn't even feel.
He complained about a rule that has been in place for more than a decade, and has been enforced every single time. And to say that Horry penned it is just ludicrous. I am sure Horry would know Stoudemire and Diaw would jump out of their seats, charging ahead with no assistant coaches pulling them back with that hard foul. In fact, a similar incident happened with Baron Davis nailing Derek Fisher in the Utah-GS series, you don't see anybody from the Jazz charging the court now do you?

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Spurs went 16-4 in last year's playoffs, which is really indicative of how well they are playing. The Nuggets series was 10x more physical than the Suns one, and the Jazz and Cavs series were also extremely physical. Nobody talked about it because...

those three teams were PATHETIC and completely outclassed (much like we were the previous two years), thus the Spurs didn't have to resort to being the old man in the gym (i.e. kneeing people in the balls, cutting their feet out from under them or body-checking their best player in a game that was over.) 16-4 really isn't indicative of how great the Spurs were playing but was more a reflection on how weak the competition was last year. You know that and I know that. The Nuggets? Come on. The 51 win Jazz team who only got to the WCF because Dallas choked against GS? That team was a year away and everyone knew it. And the freaking Cavs? Give me a break. I've admitted to the flaws my team has, it would be nice if you weren't such a ridiculous homer and could do the same.