Haason Reddick getting praise

[Stout]

I am so, so, soooo sick and tired of people defending our first round picks by giving them a pass for a 'learning year', that they'll be good in their 'second year'. You CANNOT do that with first-round picks in the modern cap era. As long as they're not total busts (which you also want to avoid) they need to contribute day one. Otherwise you're wasting a full year of a short enough contract. That's one of the problems that I had with this pick, with it not at all being BPA and with a star player at a position of need available being two others. Thus far, I don't have a ton of faith that I'll be proven wrong, though I'd like to be.

 

[cardncubfan]

I am so, so, soooo sick and tired of people defending our first round picks by giving them a pass for a 'learning year', that they'll be good in their 'second year'. You CANNOT do that with first-round picks in the modern cap era. As long as they're not total busts (which you also want to avoid) they need to contribute day one. Otherwise you're wasting a full year of a short enough contract. That's one of the problems that I had with this pick, with it not at all being BPA and with a star player at a position of need available being two others. Thus far, I don't have a ton of faith that I'll be proven wrong, though I'd like to be.

So you are expecting all 32 of the first round picks to start this year? How many do you think start every year? 31 since all but our first round pick starts? I doubt if 16 of them are starters. In this day & age with college football the way it is it just doesn't happen.

 

[Stout]

So you are expecting all 32 of the first round picks to start this year? How many do you think start every year? 31 since all but our first round pick starts? I doubt if 16 of them are starters. In this day & age with college football the way it is it just doesn't happen.

Way to try to change my point--that we need to stop drafting first-rounders for NEXT year. First rounders shouldn't be developmental players, especially when it's the past three in a row for us.

 

[Mitch]

Way to try to change my point--that we need to stop drafting first-rounders for NEXT year. First rounders shouldn't be developmental players, especially when it's the past three in a row for us.

Agreed. In the age of the salary cap, first rounders should be able to contribute immediately.

Part of the problem with the Cardinals is...they keep drafting 1st rounders whom they ask to play a new position, which triples the learning curve.

 

[juza76]

u can be wrong evaluating players, i dont blame keim for that
i just think he should stop drafting players and playing them in a position they dont know well
ILB is about instict, recongnizing a play,must use their judgment on every snap and know their role in that play, is about fractions of seconds
u have or u dont
bucannon is an example of player playing out of position with zero instict to play ILB

bucannon analysis before the draft
weakness reported
Struggles to recover from missteps and will not track anyone down from behind. Some tightness in his hips. Takes some inaccurate angles. Man-coverage limitations (struggles to mirror slot receivers). Can be overaggressive and miss tackles. Does not always arrive under control in space. Lacks discipline on the field and makes too many mental mistake

 

[Mitch]

u can be wrong evaluating players, i dont blame keim for that
i just think he should stop drafting players and playing them in a position they dont know well
ILB is about instict, recongnizing a play,must use their judgment on every snap and know their role in that play, is about fractions of seconds
u have or u dont
bucannon is an example of player playing out of position with zero instict to play ILB

bucannon analysis before the draft
weakness reported
Struggles to recover from missteps and will not track anyone down from behind. Some tightness in his hips. Takes some inaccurate angles. Man-coverage limitations (struggles to mirror slot receivers). Can be overaggressive and miss tackles. Does not always arrive under control in space. Lacks discipline on the field and makes too many mental mistake

Confidence comes from familiarity and being able to play fast without having to think too much...all of which takes time, especially when a player is learning a new position.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Agreed. In the age of the salary cap, first rounders should be able to contribute immediately.

Part of the problem with the Cardinals is...they keep drafting 1st rounders whom they ask to play a new position, which triples the learning curve.

I agree about the switch change but if Humphries becomes a legit LT and Robert the Niche is a constant force this year, I have no problem drafting on talent knowing there will be a learning curve when we are drafting late in the draft

 

[Cardiac]

1st Rd picks get a standard 4 yr contract with a 5th year option so the wringing of hands about length of contract are misplaced.

Typically the worse the team the higher they pick and it's also easier for a rookie to start because the team lacks talent.

In the Cards case they were picking in the mid to late twenties and don't have huge holes on the roster. Hump was not needed to start immediately and he didn't earn it over Massie who by the way got a decent contract in FA.

Bucannon wasn't drafted as an ILBer but Dwashout caused the position change.

Diche had an ankle sprain most of last year and had some maturing to do. We were already deep on the Dline and he was a pick with the eye on the future. I for one LOVE that this team can draft with an eye on future needs instead of having to fill immediate holes on the roster. Not saying that happens a 100% of the time but far more than anytime in this franchises past.

Funny side not IMO is that Pro Football Reference site gives a grade to each player. Brady had a score of 13, Wentz 10, Diche 0 and Goff -2.

Bosa who had 10.5 sacks had a grade of 6, he played in 12 games and started 11.

If you want to find a fault with SK's draft philosophy one could argue he swings for the fences too often. Hump, Diche, HB and Chad Williams are some examples of this. Maybe my koolaid altered brain is forgetting some whiffs but the track record is pretty good so far.

My belief is that SK is trying to balance the desire to win now with the need to build for the future. Does he draft a player with a higher floor at a position of need that can start immediately or does he trust his board and draft the best player left on his draft board (understanding that need is factored in on these rankings).

 

[BigRedRage]

No ones picking on him, but he's expected to make an immediate impact. That was the book on him when he was drafted in the top 10. Top 10 picks don't sit on the bench in the NFL. Anything less than 6 sacks and 45% of the defensive snaps should be troubling.

Deone Bucannon is no great shakes. If a top 10 pick can't beat him out, that's a bad sign. Kevin Minter couldn't oust the hollowed out shell of Larry Foote in his second year and many y'all were saying it was no problem.



Sorry. That's his job. No one in the NFL is on scholarship or keeping up the team GPA.

I still think he will be an immediate impact as a situational pass rusher. All the comments are more about how he is not ready to be a starting ILB yet....which is expected.

He was drafted to play with Deone, not to put him on the bench.

 

[kerouac9]

I still think he will be an immediate impact as a situational pass rusher. All the comments are more about how he is not ready to be a starting ILB yet....which is expected.

He was drafted to play with Deone, not to put him on the bench.

Maybe, but I think he was drafted to replace Deone, who is going into his option year next year and has been suffering from a lingering ankle injury.

 

[BigRedRage]

FYI, to stout too, you do not have to be a 16 game starter to be a big contributor to the team in your first year.

 

[BigRedRage]

Maybe, but I think he was drafted to replace Deone, who is going into his option year next year and has been suffering from a lingering ankle injury.

I'm on record saying this year he is a situational pass rusher that is being groomed to be a starting ILB next year so even if you are right, everything is on schedule as expected.

 

[JeffGollin]

To me, the issue here is less whether Reddick should be picked on and more the question of "how he's doing" and what his future looks like.

No rap on Haasan but, until I see otherwise on the field, I'll feel more hopeful about Bubba and Bynes and more nervous about Reddick.

 

[cardncubfan]

I am so, so, soooo sick and tired of people defending our first round picks by giving them a pass for a 'learning year', that they'll be good in their 'second year'. You CANNOT do that with first-round picks in the modern cap era. As long as they're not total busts (which you also want to avoid) they need to contribute day one. Otherwise you're wasting a full year of a short enough contract. That's one of the problems that I had with this pick, with it not at all being BPA and with a star player at a position of need available being two others. Thus far, I don't have a ton of faith that I'll be proven wrong, though I'd like to be.

So you are expecting all 32 of the first round picks to start this year? How many do you think start every year? 31 since all but our first round pick starts? I doubt if 16 of them are starters. In this day & age with college football the way it is it just doesn't happen.

Way to try to change my point--that we need to stop drafting first-rounders for NEXT year. First rounders shouldn't be developmental players, especially when it's the past three in a row for us.

I'm pretty sure Reddick will contribute day one & probably Budda. Not sure what more that you want. Would you prefer that we had starters that sucked so the first round pick would start from day one? We are lucky that we have a very good team where we can let our picks ''learn'' for a year before they play full time. The Browns for instance don't have that luxury. Neither do the 49ers.

 

[Stout]

I'm pretty sure Reddick will contribute day one & probably Budda. Not sure what more that you want. Would you prefer that we had starters that sucked so the first round pick would start from day one? We are lucky that we have a very good team where we can let our picks ''learn'' for a year before they play full time. The Browns for instance don't have that luxury. Neither do the 49ers.

Well, I'm glad you have a crystal ball with the ability to see the future. I'm still concerned about him--and especially the position he has to hold down--going into the season.

Believe it or not, I used to have the exact same opinion as you on 1st rounders. It used to be insane to have to rely on them, and only the bad teams had to do it. Unfortunately, in the latter salary cap era, you really, REALLY need to hit on 1st-rounders. The 'only crappy teams start their 1st rounders' trend is a thing of the past. And, let's be realistic, we don't have the luxury of having a team so good we don't need our 1st-rounders. I think we proved that last year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

How the hell can anyone here make any negative conclusions on Reddick two preseason games into his rookie season unless he was totally atrocious, which he has not... this is complete lunacy in my opinion

 

[kerouac9]

So you are expecting all 32 of the first round picks to start this year? How many do you think start every year? 31 since all but our first round pick starts? I doubt if 16 of them are starters. In this day & age with college football the way it is it just doesn't happen.

Almost every 1st round pick in 2016 started 12 games or more. Had to get pretty deep into the draft after Goff to find someone who didn't.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Wonder if DWash regrets not taking our minimum deal yet.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[eastcoastSUN]

Wonder if DWash regrets not taking our minimum deal yet.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

Most likely... since his activity on social media (i.e. Instagram) is filled with posts about "work ethic", etc. So we didn't hear from him at all during his long suspension (absolutely nothing on social media, etc.) and now he is posting 2-3x a day. Where was all of this activity the last few years, esp. two years ago when we could have really used him in the playoff run... I kind of want to troll him on social media but I feel like as an ASFN member, I'm better than that...

 

[Stout]

How the hell can anyone here make any negative conclusions on Reddick two preseason games into his rookie season unless he was totally atrocious, which he has not... this is complete lunacy in my opinion

I don't think anyone's doing that yet. For my part, I'm just responding tot he sentiment that it'd be perfectly fine if he gets a pass year, a developmental year...a redshirt year, if you will. That would be pretty far from fine, IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

I don't think anyone's doing that yet. For my part, I'm just responding tot he sentiment that it'd be perfectly fine if he gets a pass year, a developmental year...a redshirt year, if you will. That would be pretty far from fine, IMO.

I'm surprised if anyone thinks it will be a redshirt year. I doubt he will be starting at all barring injury but I expect him to play a lot of situational ball for us this year and probably ST.

 

[oaken1]

I don't think anyone's doing that yet. For my part, I'm just responding tot he sentiment that it'd be perfectly fine if he gets a pass year, a developmental year...a redshirt year, if you will. That would be pretty far from fine, IMO.

maybe that's what that "5th" year is for that all the first round picks have in their contract.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think that having the talent to be a Top 10 pick in the NFL draft probably should put this all on a sliding scale.

I tend to agree with you quite a bit, but you're out to lunch on this one. Talent level and draft selection have ZERO impact on familiarity with position. To go from putting your hand in the dirt on one side of the defense in a forward momentum position to a stand up, middle of the field, read and diagnose position is a TOTAL CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE AND RESPONSIBILITY. Frankly it's why I wasn't a fan of the draft pick in the first place. It's a lot of conjecture about what the guy SHOULD be able to do rather than knowing or seeing what he is ACTUALLY capable of. That said, we did draft him, so we have to understand, and expect, the transition to take time.

Budda was a safety in college. Bynes has been a ILB. They understand the concepts of their positions even if there are tweaks to the position from defense to defense. They can take their knowledge and experience and translate it (how often have you heard a player say the basics between one system and another are similar but they have to get used to naming conventions and nuances?). A player like reddick doesn't have that knowledge and experience of the position to do that.

 

[Ronin]

Craig Grialou‏Verified account@CraigAZSports 4m4 minutes ago
Arians, "Just continued growth, he's improved so much" re: Reddick; wants to see him rush from outside, natural position

 

[kerouac9]

I tend to agree with you quite a bit, but you're out to lunch on this one. Talent level and draft selection have ZERO impact on familiarity with position. To go from putting your hand in the dirt on one side of the defense in a forward momentum position to a stand up, middle of the field, read and diagnose position is a TOTAL CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE AND RESPONSIBILITY. Frankly it's why I wasn't a fan of the draft pick in the first place. It's a lot of conjecture about what the guy SHOULD be able to do rather than knowing or seeing what he is ACTUALLY capable of. That said, we did draft him, so we have to understand, and expect, the transition to take time.

Budda was a safety in college. Bynes has been a ILB. They understand the concepts of their positions even if there are tweaks to the position from defense to defense. They can take their knowledge and experience and translate it (how often have you heard a player say the basics between one system and another are similar but they have to get used to naming conventions and nuances?). A player like reddick doesn't have that knowledge and experience of the position to do that.

I watched film on Reddick from Temple last year. He played frequently from a two-point stance, and often from within the tackle box. We're not talking about converting Simeon Rice to an ILB.

The biggest thing is him reading keys in the run game. He was a defensive back in high school, so he should know how to cover in a zone and in space. I expect him to be an immediate situational blitzer in passing downs—somewhere where both Deone Bucannon and Kevin Minter seemed to adapt a strategy of running into the nearest blocker until the play was complete.

I may have worded my argument poorly. IMO, talent closes the gap on experience. A very talented first-round pick playing at a new position should be able to at least narrow the gap on an undrafted or street free agent playing their 8th season.