Hartwell vs Hayes

[mdsisquo]

I must say that the idea of signing Hartwell isn't very thrilling to me. I think he is an above average starter, but why would we throw big $$$ at him when we have an equally promising and younger player in Hayes. Would Hartwell really be that much of an improvement over Hayes? We don't know becuase Hayes has never started a season. However, I think Hayes has the potential to be pretty darn good. Give him a season to see what he's made of. Hayes has earned it. Hayes is going to be about 10 times cheaper, and he may very well end up being the better football player.

 

[vince56]

The dude had 96 tackles last year playing alongside Ray Lewis. 142 tackles 2 years ago.

 

[vince56]

plus... Hartwell's exactly 2 days older than me & wears # 56. That's just cool

 

[spanky1]

Hartwell is prime rib.....not that Hayes is chopped liver. The perfect combo is Hartwell at the "mike" and Hayes at the "will". Both Hayes and Darling can play the "mike" as well if necessary through injury.

Hayes struggled as the defensive signal caller.....Hartwell has been there and done that......and in the absense of a run stuffing NT, Hartwell provides some very needed horsepower in the middle.

 

[Jttsaz]

Chiefs | Negotiating with Hartwell - from www.KFFL.com
Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:35:05 -0800

Adam Teicher, of the Kansas City Star, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have held contract talks with free agent LB Ed Hartwell (Ravens), but no deal appears imminent.

 

[mdsisquo]

Hartwell is prime rib.....not that Hayes is chopped liver. The perfect combo is Hartwell at the "mike" and Hayes at the "will". Both Hayes and Darling can play the "mike" as well if necessary through injury.

Hayes struggled as the defensive signal caller.....Hartwell has been there and done that......and in the absense of a run stuffing NT, Hartwell provides some very needed horsepower in the middle.

Hartwell was the defensive signal caller for the Ravens? What did Ray Lewis have to say about that?

I disagree about Hartwell being Prime Rib. I think he is good to above average.....but NO ONE really knows. He is still an unknown. He played with Ray Lewis, Suggs, Reed, McAllistar, Baxter etc. Was he really that good, or was he simply a product of the system?


The good teams get to be good by knowing when to promote a youngster to a starting role. This saves them a lot of money since they don't have to throw big money at a FA. I think Hayes is ready for the job. He's looked good, he's fast, he has insincts. Maybe he will struggle as a signal caller, but I'm sure thats fairly common for first year MLB's. Hayes could end up being a better player than Hartwell. He could be a bust. But I think we all agree he has the potential to be a pretty darn good player. He's going to be very cheap for us this year. He's looked good in the few chances he has had. If we don't give him a shot, we'll never know if he's the answer. Hayes should be given a chance to show us what he has to offer.

 

[vince56]

I think Hayes is ready for the job. He's looked good

uhm...when did he look good?

The only lasting memory I have of Hayes playing this last year was when he was reading run on a pass play and left New England's TE wide open in the endzone for a TD.

 

[az1965]

I trust Green knows what he is doing. If he thinks Hayes is not ready for the prime time and he needs to bring in someone to stuff the middle then I'm all for it.

 

[mdsisquo]

uhm...when did he look good?

The only lasting memory I have of Hayes playing this last year was when he was reading run on a pass play and left New England's TE wide open in the endzone for a TD.

Last game of the season, the occasional down here and there. He played a bit on 3rd downs too.

 

[vince56]

Last game of the season, the occasional down here and there. He played a bit on 3rd downs too.

Well you got me there, I wasn't at the Bucs game. What impressed you?

 

[KingofCards]

I'd take Hartwell in a second. The goal is to increase the talent level of the team.

I've never seen Hayes make a play except on special teams.

 

[mdsisquo]

Well you got me there, I wasn't at the Bucs game. What impressed you?

Well, i wasn't there either, but I watched it. He's just an intense player with lots of hustle. He lays to Hammer on people (and I mean HARD) and he's a pretty fast. He's a lot like the man he will be replacing (Mckinnon) but more athletic. I'm not calling him a pro-bowler yet, but I think he has the potential to be. He's still raw, but the talent is there. Birds gotta spread it's wings and try to fly sometime.

 

[Phlegyas]

I remember a Pittsburgh Panther fan on here saying that losing Fitzgerald hurt, but that he was missing Gerald Hayes more; he said that without Hayes, they just haven't been able to stop the run.

 

[mdsisquo]

I'd take Hartwell in a second. The goal is to increase the talent level of the team.

I've never seen Hayes make a play except on special teams.

Increase the talent level, where it's needed the most. This Offseason thats OL, DL, CB, FS, RB, TE, QB. That is where we need to be focused on. MLB is not a prority (IMO). You can't just go out and sign everyone who you think is a good player, did that work for washington? It's simple to say "increase talent, sign better players" but it doesn't work like that. You have to seperate the positions that NEED to be upgraded from the others. I would say that MLB is not a NEED position for us this offseason.

 

[Phlegyas]

An idea: perhaps Green is interviewing Hartwell because he wants a future replacement for Darling. Darling is 30 years old, but is still good.

 

[KingofCards]

Increase the talent level, where it's needed the most. This Offseason thats OL, DL, CB, FS, RB, TE, QB. That is where we need to be focused on. MLB is not a prority (IMO). You can't just go out and sign everyone who you think is a good player, did that work for washington? It's simple to say "increase talent, sign better players" but it doesn't work like that. You have to seperate the positions that NEED to be upgraded from the others. I would say that MLB is not a NEED position for us this offseason.

I think MLB is an absolute NEED position for this offseason.

Hayes is over-rated high on this board and McKinnon is done. LIke I said. I watch every game and have only seen Hayes do anything on special teams. We having a glaring weakness up the middle stopping the run. Also coverage problem on underneath passes to the tight end.

Signing Ed Hartwell is not at all comparable to Daniel Snyder and the Washington Redskins.

In order to be truely competitive the way Dennis Green and I want them. The Cardinals NEED to upgrade the talent level at almost EVERY position. MLB while not a BLARING weaknesses, is certainly not a strong point with Hayes, in fact I would consider it to be mediocre at best.

Sign Hartwell.

 

[mdsisquo]

An idea: perhaps Green is interviewing Hartwell because he wants a future replacement for Darling. Darling is 30 years old, but is still good.

Maybe, but I don't think it would be wise to spend a couple mill a year for someone to eventually take over for Darling. Maybe he is going to send Darling to the bench, but that doesn't make sense either because Darling played very well last year. It's not necessary for us to sign Hartwell, we are good at LB. We need to focus on other areas.

 

[mdsisquo]

I think MLB is an absolute NEED position for this offseason. Hayes is only rated high on this board and McKinnon is done.

Signing Ed Hartwell is not at all comparable to Daniel Snyder and the Washington Redskins.

In order to be truely competitive the way Dennis Green and I want them. The Cardinals NEED to upgrade the talent level at almost EVERY position. MLB while not a BLARING weaknesses, is certainly not a strong point with Hayes, in fact I would consider it to be mediocre at best.

Sign Hartwell.

OK, we can agree to disagree on this i suppose. I just don't wanna see us waste all that money on Hartwell when there is a chance Hayes will be better, and cost a fraction of the price.

 

[joeshmo]

I would say that MLB is not a NEED position for us this offseason.

27th ranked run D says it is a huge need. And why couldnt Hayes beat out McKinnon for the starting job even though we needed a change to help stop the Run.

The only reason Hayes started towards the end was just an audition.

When Hayes did come in there wasnt any noticable improvement between him and McKinnon.

 

[joeshmo]

OK, we can agree to disagree on this i suppose. I just don't wanna see us waste all that money on Hartwell when there is a chance Hayes will be better, and cost a fraction of the price.

"A chance Hayes will be better", Hartwell already is a lot better.

 

[arthurracoon]

27th ranked run D says it is a huge need.

 

[mdsisquo]

You guys are acting like ONE player is going to fix all of our defensive woes. Don't you see that CB, DT, DE and FS are bigger needs? Do you understand that if we were to sign Hartwell he would take up a lot of our cap space for this offseason? Thats not a good thing when we have so many other needs. Why has everyone soured on Hayes in the last couple of days? What happened to the Darling/Hayes/Dansby is an excellent group talk? I think everyone on this board just likes to disagree with me. Hayes will be good, if not very good. Worst case is we have a very cheap starter for a year, we upgrade it next offseason and then we have a very cheap back-up. OR, we have a very cheap starter who turns out to be a very good player.

 

[KingofCards]

You guys are acting like ONE player is going to fix all of our defensive woes. Don't you see that CB, DT, DE and FS are bigger needs? Do you understand that if we were to sign Hartwell he would take up a lot of our cap space for this offseason? Thats not a good thing when we have so many other needs. Why has everyone soured on Hayes in the last couple of days? What happened to the Darling/Hayes/Dansby is an excellent group talk? I think everyone on this board just likes to disagree with me. Hayes will be good, if not very good. Worst case is we have a very cheap starter for a year, we upgrade it next offseason and then we have a very cheap back-up. OR, we have a very cheap starter who turns out to be a very good player.

We aren't acting like one player is going to fix all of defensive woes, were did you get that from?

Ed Hartwell will fix all of our middle linebacker woes. He is probably the best player we have coming in at all.

 

[azdad1978]

You guys are acting like ONE player is going to fix all of our defensive woes. Don't you see that CB, DT, DE and FS are bigger needs? Do you understand that if we were to sign Hartwell he would take up a lot of our cap space for this offseason? Thats not a good thing when we have so many other needs. Why has everyone soured on Hayes in the last couple of days? What happened to the Darling/Hayes/Dansby is an excellent group talk? I think everyone on this board just likes to disagree with me. Hayes will be good, if not very good. Worst case is we have a very cheap starter for a year, we upgrade it next offseason and then we have a very cheap back-up. OR, we have a very cheap starter who turns out to be a very good player.

Anytime we can add a beast MLB in the middle we take it, plus with Ronnie Mac leaving we need anoth MLB anyway. It makes us put the best LB crew on the field with Dansby,Hartwell,Hayes and Darling when we shift to 3-4 formations.

 

[Snakester]

You guys are acting like ONE player is going to fix all of our defensive woes. Don't you see that CB, DT, DE and FS are bigger needs? Do you understand that if we were to sign Hartwell he would take up a lot of our cap space for this offseason? Thats not a good thing when we have so many other needs. Why has everyone soured on Hayes in the last couple of days? What happened to the Darling/Hayes/Dansby is an excellent group talk? I think everyone on this board just likes to disagree with me. Hayes will be good, if not very good. Worst case is we have a very cheap starter for a year, we upgrade it next offseason and then we have a very cheap back-up. OR, we have a very cheap starter who turns out to be a very good player.

I have to agree with you on this one. We have our MLB already in Gerald Hayes. We have so many other holes to fill, why in the world would we spend a bunch of money on a player that we have no need for.