Has Cam Johnson displaced Oubre?

[1Sun]

Free Agency/Draft Needs
1. Back-up big, as Baynes is likely to walk and Suns are unlikely to bring back Frank/Diallo.

2. PG of the future, as Ricky will probably be gone in two years and Payne is probably not starting PG material (although he’s playing his ass off and appears to be a clear rotation player on a good team).

3. Wing Depth, as Kelly is probably gone either this year or next. Bridges and Cam are both solid wing pieces, but the Suns could use another guy of their general description that also has some dribble drive/pass ability.

All of these needs underscore the need for perimeter defense as the Suns have struggled mightily to contain dribble penetration all year (which stresses Ayton and risks foul trouble for everyone as well as unlocks open threes for opponents).

The Suns need a big that can switch and harass ball-handlers, a wing that can do the same, and a PG that can do the same whilst not being targeted too heavily as a post mismatch.

I believe Suns have ~$20MM in space

FA/Draft Picks (based on above)
1. Mason Plumlee, UFA, coming off 3/41 as a guy playing 20mpg, but a very valuable 20mpg, worth about 4 wins per year. A very good passer (which is helpful on a team with cutters and shooters), rim protector, and rebounder, as well as perimeter defender. He’s 30, but very durable. He can’t shoot/stretch, and is an awful ft shooter; but he’s smart and athletic so he is still north of 60TS%. A lob threat. He would be a good guy to offer 3/30-35; I think he will come down a bit given his age and the fact that he was probably projected to play more minutes when he signed 3/41.

2. Fred Van Vleet, UFA, coming off 2/18. Plays bigger than he is (in all ways), he’s kind of a rich man’s Jevon Carter: tough and elite creator, very good shooter off actions and great at spotting up. He’s 26, and due for a huge payday. 4/80 would be fair for him, as he’s probably better value than Brogdon who signed that deal last year. He would displace Ricky as starter, but Ricky as back-up PG sounds pretty damn cool. Booker and Ayton would benefit greatly from this signing.

3. Nesmith/Okoro/Maxey are all guys I like, as they have good ft rates and decent ast rates; I feel like these numbers are good proxies for creation/dribble skills. A guy like Vassell is intriguing, but I’m not sure of his offensive toolkit and you can only have so many stand still guys on offense.

Biggest need by far is a starting power forward that brings toughness, athleticism, interior defense and rebounding.

 

[Dr dumas]

Not discounting how impressive Monty has the Suns playing in the Bubble, but could you imagine how much better off we would be, now and into the future, if we had at power forward exactly what Warren is giving the Pacers? For one thing, we would have clinched our first playoff berth in a decade months ago.

That is the one key piece we are currently missing, and we HAD it only for James Jones to give it away.

I’m not really sure TJ is the missing piece. This Suns team has had no issues scoring and TJs defen

Biggest need by far is a starting power forward that brings toughness, athleticism, interior defense and rebounding.

When I think of TJ, Toughness, rebounding and interior defense sure don’t come to mind..

 

[JCSunsfan]

Good grief. TJ Warren and Devin Booker are two alpha scorers. They were not going to mix on the same team. We kept the right one. We should have gotten more for the other one, but getting Rubio and adding Cam was very good for team building. Good GM's need to look at the team they are building, not just the assets they are accumulating. McD was an asset guy. Look where that got us.

This is my last post on TJ.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Biggest need by far is a starting power forward that brings toughness, athleticism, interior defense and rebounding.

I don’t disagree with those needs, but the problem is that it’s hard to find a guy like that who also can stretch the floor on offense, so Ayton’s rim runs aren’t clogged up.

Maybe a guy like Okongwu can develop from outside (good ft rate and percentage), but he was 1/4 from 3 on the year.

I do think Okungwu would be a great pick at 10 based on his other traits, especially if Suns can’t get someone like Plumlee.

 

[95pro]

Jeremi Grant for pf anyone?

 

[Mainstreet]

Jeremi Grant for pf anyone?

This is one of the players I have my eye on.

 

[1Sun]

Jeremi Grant for pf anyone?

We could do worse, but in my opinion we could also do better. His lack of size concerns me.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Jeremi Grant for pf anyone?

love him, but he’s not UFA until next summer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Jeremi Grant for pf anyone?

No thanks. He isn't horrible but he's just not the answer IMO and who would he replace on the roster? Personally, I'd rather focus on Bridges, Oubre and Saric plus whoever we draft which leaves little time for someone like Grant.

People talk about who we need, I think more about who we need to keep. And given our horrible roster turnover for the past 6 years or so, I think keeping our roster intact will gain us far more than the addition of any mediocre player, especially one that would need minutes to keep him happy.

Draft reasonably well, continue developing Ayton and keep the roster together and we'll be an elite team in 3 years, maybe sooner. Keep throwing players against the wall to see who sticks and we'll be the same mess we've been for several years now. JMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

love him, but he’s not UFA until next summer.

Jerami Grant has a player option for the upcoming season for $9,346,153 but I think he is worth more than that or at least he was before the financial woes that will confront many NBA teams.

Nuggets do have Bird Rights.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Related to this discussion, Suns should definitely retain Saric and can go over the cap to do so.

 

[1Sun]

Related to this discussion, Suns should definitely retain Saric and can go over the cap to do so.

Only if he is willing to be a back-up, and then only if the version of him he get is the version we have seen in the Bubble. He is not good enough to start for a team that wants to make the playoffs. Heck, he wasn't good enough to remain in our rotation earlier this season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good grief. TJ Warren and Devin Booker are two alpha scorers. They were not going to mix on the same team. We kept the right one. We should have gotten more for the other one, but getting Rubio and adding Cam was very good for team building. Good GM's need to look at the team they are building, not just the assets they are accumulating. McD was an asset guy. Look where that got us.

This is my last post on TJ.

The two alpha scorer comment doesn’t hold water when you see a team like warriors effectively used Durant and curry, Heat integrated three alpha scorers, as did the Celtics. Championship teams can do it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The two alpha scorer comment doesn’t hold water when you see a team like warriors effectively used Durant and curry, Heat integrated three alpha scorers, as did the Celtics. Championship teams can do it.

I could see two players like Giannis and Devin working together, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the TJ and Devin combo was not working. It's my take. I was, and still am, a Warren fan.

 

[95pro]

The two alpha scorer comment doesn’t hold water when you see a team like warriors effectively used Durant and curry, Heat integrated three alpha scorers, as did the Celtics. Championship teams can do it.

The warriors are shooters as opposed to dominating the ball and being scorer. Swing the pass to any one of those 3 and they can knock down a beyond 3 pointer. Thats what made Green look so good.

TJ isn't a catch and shoot type of player.

I wouldn't say Book and TJ are alpha scorers, but it's the way they score. Book was more of a 3pt shooter when drafted but had evolved to an elite scorer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The warriors are shooters as opposed to dominating the ball and being scorer. Swing the pass to any one of those 3 and they can knock down a beyond 3 pointer. Thats what made Green look so good.

TJ isn't a catch and shoot type of player.

I wouldn't say Book and TJ are alpha scorers, but it's the way they score. Book was more of a 3pt shooter when drafted but had evolved to an elite scorer.

Lebron/wade/bosh weren’t shooters.

pierce and kg weren’t shooters (Allen was).

no one can convince that their styles precluded having them on the same team.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Only if he is willing to be a back-up, and then only if the version of him he get is the version we have seen in the Bubble. He is not good enough to start for a team that wants to make the playoffs. Heck, he wasn't good enough to remain in our rotation earlier this season.

He seems more than willing to be a back-up now, and that’s with Oubre and Baynes out. He is easily good enough to be a rotation player on a playoff team; he does lots of good stuff and crushes bench bigs. He does have a low ceiling in terms of who he can play against—he’s not guarding Anthony Davis or Giannis—but he is very useful as a bench piece.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

The two alpha scorer comment doesn’t hold water when you see a team like warriors effectively used Durant and curry, Heat integrated three alpha scorers, as did the Celtics. Championship teams can do it.

KD and Curry have limitless range and are great ball handlers and passers. TJ is a bucket but he can’t create looks for others.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Lebron/wade/bosh weren’t shooters.

pierce and kg weren’t shooters (Allen was).

no one can convince that their styles precluded having them on the same team.

pierce and KG definitely were shooters; pierce from 3 and KG from long2.

lost in this Booker/TJ discussion is that TJ never got to play with this leveled-up SuperBooker that’s emerged lately. And SuperBooker has not played with leveled-up GodShootingRange Warren. Decent chance the current versions of these guys would fit pretty well. But they’d need DA playing elite defense to survive on that end.

 

[1Sun]

He seems more than willing to be a back-up now, and that’s with Oubre and Baynes out. He is easily good enough to be a rotation player on a playoff team; he does lots of good stuff and crushes bench bigs. He does have a low ceiling in terms of who he can play against—he’s not guarding Anthony Davis or Giannis—but he is very useful as a bench piece.

Agreed, if this remains the version we would get. He was terrible and virtually unplayable earlier in the season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

pierce and KG definitely were shooters; pierce from 3 and KG from long2.

lost in this Booker/TJ discussion is that TJ never got to play with this leveled-up SuperBooker that’s emerged lately. And SuperBooker has not played with leveled-up GodShootingRange Warren. Decent chance the current versions of these guys would fit pretty well. But they’d need DA playing elite defense to survive on that end.

Chemistry is a delicate thing. Not sure which would have made the most difference. What I do know is that we had already had seen the Book/TJ combo and it did not go far. If we could have added Rubio with Book and TJ, maybe that would have worked. But Book and TJ without Rubio was going nowhere.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

KD and Curry have limitless range and are great ball handlers and passers. TJ is a bucket but he can’t create looks for others.

Same was said about pierce through his early career.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

pierce and KG definitely were shooters; pierce from 3 and KG from long2.

lost in this Booker/TJ discussion is that TJ never got to play with this leveled-up SuperBooker that’s emerged lately. And SuperBooker has not played with leveled-up GodShootingRange Warren. Decent chance the current versions of these guys would fit pretty well. But they’d need DA playing elite defense to survive on that end.

Pierce and KG were no more shooters than are booker or the last two seasons of warren.

 

[GatorAZ]

Pierce and KG were no more shooters than are booker or the last two seasons of warren.

For the era Pierce shot a lot of 3’s. In 2002 he was top-5 in attempts and hit 40%.

 

[Mainstreet]

No thanks. He isn't horrible but he's just not the answer IMO and who would he replace on the roster? Personally, I'd rather focus on Bridges, Oubre and Saric plus whoever we draft which leaves little time for someone like Grant.

People talk about who we need, I think more about who we need to keep. And given our horrible roster turnover for the past 6 years or so, I think keeping our roster intact will gain us far more than the addition of any mediocre player, especially one that would need minutes to keep him happy.

Draft reasonably well, continue developing Ayton and keep the roster together and we'll be an elite team in 3 years, maybe sooner. Keep throwing players against the wall to see who sticks and we'll be the same mess we've been for several years now. JMO.

The equation has evolved especially during the restart in Orlando.

Saric looks like a solid power forward off the bench if he accepts this role and providing the Suns can keep him on a reasonable contract.

Also Cam Johnson looks like he can play the power forward position as well. Also we know Bridges and Oubre play well together at forward. So Bridges, Oubre, Cam Johnson and Jerami Grant would be a bit redundant. They are very similar players and no need for the Suns do overpay for a starter in free agency. Although I still like Grant I'm not feeling the need as I did earlier.

This doesn't mean the Suns do not need to strengthen the power forward position but rather they don't necessarily need to add a starter unless they want to trade a forward for one but this is really another discussion.

The Suns might be wise to look at 4/5 players that have length, rebound and protect the rim. A draft pick could help plus of course there is free agency.

Jordan Clarkson is looking awfully good as a free agent target.

Of course a lot of things can change with the draft and what happens with Saric.