Has winning camouflaged the Suns weaknesses?

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t think what you describe is unusual. You usually have to strip assets to acquire talent or fit under the cap. Look at the Lakers they essentially gave up every piece of talent but kuzma. Then you build around your stars with component parts. If you don’t sacrifice your talent to acquire the big piece I think you become the Bucks. A good team, but likely never a true championship contender Inless wverything falls your way.

Well, it's not unique, that's for sure. And I'd be okay with it if it brought us 3 stars capable of competing for a championship with average support. But end of career Paul, offense only Booker and offense only Towns just spells postseason disaster to me. And that's while Paul is still relevant.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I also think KAT's defense turns up (Just like Ayton's did) under Monty's tutelage. Effort matters on the defensive end and when you have a frontcourt as bad as theirs is, it makes you a worse player.

He would have Paul and Bridges doing much better work up top and that matters.

Nah. I think that is a big assumption. If KAT hasn't been a defensive player so far, its not likely he will be. And D is essential at the 5.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well, it's not unique, that's for sure. And I'd be okay with it if it brought us 3 stars capable of competing for a championship with average support. But end of career Paul, offense only Booker and offense only Towns just spells postseason disaster to me. And that's while Paul is still relevant.

Yes. I think this is true. Overall KAT is the better player, but I am not sure at all he is the better player for this mix of guys. KAT could play pf, but I cannot see how KAT is attainable without giving up Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nah. I think that is a big assumption. If KAT hasn't been a defensive player so far, its not likely he will be. And D is essential at the 5.

And he has already played for probably the most defensive minded coach in the game today.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team is where it is by developing a defensive identity. Defense makes games winnable when other weaknesses manifest themselves. They need to stick with the plan. I just don't see how KAT fits with what JJ is developing unless its a PF.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You are your record.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I gotta believe PF is the number 1 thing we go after in FA this off-season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Suns opened the season 8-8.

Since that time they are 28-6 (if they win tonight).

Every team has weaknesses. Great teams find a way to win in spite of their weaknesses. They also take advantage of opportunities.

 

[Yuma]

I have been watching the opposite in regards to Ayton. Yes his hands are not ideal, and he doesn't throw down dunks enough. However, just watch how opponents change how they attack us when Ayton goes out. Usually more drives to the rim, more attacking the basket by big men, more offensive boards by the other team, etc. You can tell Ayton's worth more when he's out of the game than when he is in. We need another big that can rebound and block shots. we have wings and guards galore right now. I don't think you blow up a team to add a guy like KAT. I would like to see the Suns add to the Chris Paul, Booker, Ayton, Bridges core. It's all timing. We have this season and next to find a Chris Paul replacement, and a starting PF or to see if Cam Johnson can evolve into our PF. We are closer to a starting five by adding to what we have, rather than trading multiple pieces like Ayton and Bridges for KAT.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have been watching the opposite in regards to Ayton. Yes his hands are not ideal, and he doesn't throw down dunks enough. However, just watch how opponents change how they attack us when Ayton goes out. Usually more drives to the rim, more attacking the basket by big men, more offensive boards by the other team, etc. You can tell Ayton's worth more when he's out of the game than when he is in. We need another big that can rebound and block shots. we have wings and guards galore right now. I don't think you blow up a team to add a guy like KAT. I would like to see the Suns add to the Chris Paul, Booker, Ayton, Bridges core. It's all timing. We have this season and next to find a Chris Paul replacement, and a starting PF or to see if Cam Johnson can evolve into our PF. We are closer to a starting five by adding to what we have, rather than trading multiple pieces like Ayton and Bridges for KAT.

I agree with this but there's two Aytons. There's the frustrating Ayton that can look great one moment and weak the next but whose presence down low makes us a much better team. And then there's the Ayton that disappeared for several games before and after the all star break (plus a few other times earlier in the season). That Ayton, either by choice or reaction to the other team, stands around doing nothing on the perimeter and hurts us simply by being on the court.

We get a lot more of the frustrating but still quite valuable DA than we do the really bad version that kills us on both ends of the court - that's primarily why I wouldn't do a DA for Towns straight up swap even if it were possible. The other reasons are that DA's strengths play more to our weaknesses and there's far more reason to expect him to improve than there is with KAT.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with this but there's two Aytons. There's the frustrating Ayton that can look great one moment and weak the next but whose presence down low makes us a much better team. And then there's the Ayton that disappeared for several games before and after the all star break (plus a few other times earlier in the season). That Ayton, either by choice or reaction to the other team, stands around doing nothing on the perimeter and hurts us simply by being on the court.

We get a lot more of the frustrating but still quite valuable DA than we do the really bad version that kills us on both ends of the court - that's primarily why I wouldn't do a DA for Towns straight up swap even if it were possible. The other reasons are that DA's strengths play more to our weaknesses and there's far more reason to expect him to improve than there is with KAT.

He is like that even during the same games. Look at the Bulls game. He was so frustrating to watch but he made some key plays in the second half that helped fuel the team overcoming then down the stretch. If there was a poster child for frustrating player...I swear.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is like that even during the same games. Look at the Bulls game. He was so frustrating to watch but he made some key plays in the second half that helped fuel the team overcoming then down the stretch. If there was a poster child for frustrating player...I swear.

Yeah, that's the good Ayton I was talking about - the one who frustrated the heck out of us but still helped us win. The really, really bad Ayton we've only seen for maybe a dozen games scattered throughout this season but mostly in the games just before and just after the break.

That Ayton version we saw around the mid-season break? I'd have traded him for scraps just to avoid the possibility we'd end up having to give him the max. The Ayton we've seen for most of the season though, might not be worth the max to some here but he's closer to warranting it than a lot of young players are when they get their first max deal. And I wouldn't think of trading that Ayton for Towns.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not so much teams will always play big against the Suns, it's that opponents will game plan to get Ayton in foul trouble and attack the interior.

The game will slow down and get more physical.

One can see playoff teams already stocking up on big men such as Dedmon, Griffin, Ilyasova, Cousins and Dieng. These are fouls to give.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's not so much teams will always play big against the Suns, it's that opponents will game plan to get Ayton in foul trouble and attack the interior.

The game will slow down and get more physical.

One can see playoff teams already stocking up on big men such as Dedmon, Griffin, Ilyasova, Cousins and Dieng. These are fouls to give.

Ayton likes defending on the perimeter more than the post. Its the place where his combination of size and mobility gives him the most advantage. Defending the interior doesn't take as much speed. It's more about determination and strength.

Is it just me, or does Ayton seem a little less muscular now than when he entered the league? Makes me wonder about PED use in college.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton likes defending on the perimeter more than the post. Its the place where his combination of size and mobility gives him the most advantage. Defending the interior doesn't take as much speed. It's more about determination and strength.

Is it just me, or does Ayton seem a little less muscular now than when he entered the league? Makes me wonder about PED use in college.

It's more about how teams will scheme to beat the Suns especially in the playoffs. Without much big man depth behind Ayton, opponents will be constantly looking to get him in foul trouble. The Suns really take a hit when he goes to the bench particularly if Saric is not playing well.

Maybe those who followed Ayton in college will know more about his build.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's more about how teams will scheme to beat the Suns especially in the playoffs. Without much big man depth behind Ayton, opponents will be constantly looking to get him in foul trouble. The Suns really take a hit when he goes to the bench particularly if Saric is not playing well.

Maybe those who followed Ayton in college will know more about his build.

Handsome Frank makes a huge difference when he is available and healthy. He allows for Ayton to sit some.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton likes defending on the perimeter more than the post. Its the place where his combination of size and mobility gives him the most advantage. Defending the interior doesn't take as much speed. It's more about determination and strength.

Is it just me, or does Ayton seem a little less muscular now than when he entered the league? Makes me wonder about PED use in college.

Huh, that’s interesting bc this season I think his perimeter defense has really fallen off compared to last year and I think his post defense has improved greatly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Huh, that’s interesting bc this season I think his perimeter defense has really fallen off compared to last year and I think his post defense has improved greatly.

that might be true, but when he talks, he always talks about wanting to defend outside, and he really struggles against interior-type bigs like Embiid and Gobert.

He just plain struggles with bigs that are bigger than him--unless they are just total stiffs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

that might be true, but when he talks, he always talks about wanting to defend outside, and he really struggles against interior-type bigs like Embiid and Gobert.

He just plain struggles with bigs that are bigger than him--unless they are just total stiffs.

I don't believe this holds up as well as you seem to think it does. It was true his rookie year but it's not exactly accurate this season. He's played very well against several of the bigger centers although yes, he struggles to score inside against big guys. But that's true of most bigs when they go up against the two you mentioned.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Huh, that’s interesting bc this season I think his perimeter defense has really fallen off compared to last year and I think his post defense has improved greatly.

in a shocking turn of events... I agree!

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't believe this holds up as well as you seem to think it does. It was true his rookie year but it's not exactly accurate this season. He's played very well against several of the bigger centers although yes, he struggles to score inside against big guys. But that's true of most bigs when they go up against the two you mentioned.

Well. We will see how it goes tonight.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well. We will see how it goes tonight.

Yes we will but it will not change the past. He's still capable of disappearing against any big man, good or bad, huge or skinny, tall or short.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

camouflaged

BIM

 

[JCSunsfan]

that might be true, but when he talks, he always talks about wanting to defend outside, and he really struggles against interior-type bigs like Embiid and Gobert.

He just plain struggles with bigs that are bigger than him--unless they are just total stiffs.

well alrighty then. I’ll just go wipe the egg off my face.

 

[Cheesebeef]

well alrighty then. I’ll just go wipe the egg off my face.

eat it when it tastes as good as tonight!