Hassan Reddick

[dreamcastrocks]

I'd rather save the transition tag for Pat P.

Not me. Reddick gets the tag and we never look back. I'm sure we really want PP back and he wants to be back, we can work our a regular contract. A lot of people here want to move on anyway...

 

[kerouac9]

Overpaying Reddick based on 1 year of production against bad players is EXACTLY the Cards way.

I'm fully expecting them to pay him way too much then he gets 4 sacks next season.

Actually, NOT paying Reddick, having him leave, and then him getting 15 sacks a year is exactly the Cards way:

Kyle Vanden Bosch: 8.75 Gm/year, 1 sk per season with ARI; 14.6 gm/year, 6.8 sk per season after
Calvin Pace: 13.8 gm, 1.9 sack/yr, with ARI; 5.8 sk/year after

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually, NOT paying Reddick, having him leave, and then him getting 15 sacks a year is exactly the Cards way:

Kyle Vanden Bosch: 8.75 Gm/year, 1 sk per season with ARI; 14.6 gm/year, 6.8 sk per season after
Calvin Pace: 13.8 gm, 1.9 sack/yr, with ARI; 5.8 sk/year after

Exactly my thinking.

I think this is totally a Humphries situation where you have to find out if last year was a fluke or not. If so, it’s one year and you’re not saddled with a bad deal. If it wasn’t a fluke, then you’ve just found a great piece of a defensive puzzle.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree about concerns but my question is are there that many examples of guys his age having a big sack year and then not being good after? I've seen it over 30, but in general guys that break out like Reddick did this year generally don't go back to not being good.

Shaq Barrett seems like a good comp 19.5 sacks out of nowhere, but even he this season while nowhere near as good, he still had 8 sacks and was still a major piece of that defense.

If it were my decision that would be the first thing I do, a study of how common it is for someone to do what Reddick did this year and then fall off a cliff. I'm sure there are examples I just can't think of many at his age, unless they had major injuries.

Markus Golden? Travis Laboy?

 

[Russ Smith]

Markus Golden? Travis Laboy?

I don't remember for sure but didn't Golden tear his ACL in there somewhere?

I don't recall with laboy I know the name but I don't remember.

To be clear I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm asking how common is it. If he were 30 or 31 I wouldn't even ask, but he's still 28 and seems to be in his prime right now. a 5 year deal is dodgy he'll be on the way down at the end, but I do think as you said in another post if we let him walk and he gets 15 sacks, that's the Cards way too.

yes he did better against inferior OL's so do 90 percent of the pass rushers in the league, guys like Donald and Chandler Jones who go up against elite pass blockers and beat them are rare, it's why they make so much money when you have one.

 

[TJ]

I'd rather pay Golden $4-5 mil than Reddick $13-15 mil.

 

[Stout]

Franchise tag for Reddick would be madness.

 

[wit3card]

10 mio for Reddick okay, a good 4 year deal that pays him less than 10 this year and later more would be nice. But than you have already most of our money spent.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Haven’t read all the way through but people wanting to go cheap on Golden are wrong. That’s the old Cardinals way. Pay the better player. I’m not saying overpay Reddick but offer him fair deal rather than settling for Golden.
The Giants overpaid Golden and look what that got them.

 

[phillycard]

I'm glad for Reddick. I think the Cards Org needs to have a strong word with itself over how it misused Reddick and where he could be as a player right now had we not wasted 3 years of his career trying to play him out of position.

Having said all that, Reddick sounds a little too big for his boots in this quote. Yes, he had a nice season, but you have to factor in that all but one of his sacks came against rookies, first year starters or backups. It's not like he's been blowing up Andrew Whitworth and Trent Williams. His only sack against anyone noteworthy was McGlinchy in the 2nd SF game but McGlinchy saw him well past the QB. Beathard held the ball too long and Reddick got him coming back the other way.

He had a 5 game stretch against good O lines (except Miami) where he didn't record a sack or a QB hit with 4 TFL's over the 5 games. Against Miami (PFF rank 28), Bills (10), Seahawks (14), Patriots (4), Rams (3).

I would be SUPER wary about overpaying a guy where all his production was against sub par tackles.

PS - As I haven't seen it mentioned the Cards had PFF's 12th ranked O line this year. Their highest ever PFF rank since they started in 2006.

Great Eval BC. Adds some much needed perspicuity to his situation.

 

[legend]

I hope he stays.
It's not just the sack total. His closing speed on Russel Wilson . . like a big cat. He did lose contain on some plays as did Golden.
Jones and Reddick bookends should set the tone with Simmons cleaning up the leaks. Baker and Thompson . .
A couple of corners and this defense is nice.

 

[Chopper0080]

It all depends on the plan.

(This is going to have a bunch of "if's" in it)

IF Reddick is not willing to take a 10 mil or less deal, I get letting him go and think it is a justifiable move.

IF that happens, Golden gets locked in at probably 4 to 5 mil.

IF Reddick walks you HAVE to be able to put that money towards a top offensive linemen like Scherff or Thuney or Linsley. HAVE TO.

Also, you HAVE to get either a top CB OR a top WR.

This way you can enter the draft being able to pick an EDGE player in round 1. Ojulari, Ossai, Rousseau, Parsons (who I feel is actually more of a small EDGE player), or my personal favorite Oweh. All are pretty good fits at 16 in terms of need and value in this scenario.

 

[juza76]

It all depends on the plan.

(This is going to have a bunch of "if's" in it)

IF Reddick is not willing to take a 10 mil or less deal, I get letting him go and think it is a justifiable move.

IF that happens, Golden gets locked in at probably 4 to 5 mil.

IF Reddick walks you HAVE to be able to put that money towards a top offensive linemen like Scherff or Thuney or Linsley. HAVE TO.

Also, you HAVE to get either a top CB OR a top WR.

This way you can enter the draft being able to pick an EDGE player in round 1. Ojulari, Ossai, Rousseau, Parsons (who I feel is actually more of a small EDGE player), or my personal favorite Oweh. All are pretty good fits at 16 in terms of need and value in this scenario.

I don't see any pass rushers worth the 16 pick in the draft

 

[kerouac9]

Haven’t read all the way through but people wanting to go cheap on Golden are wrong. That’s the old Cardinals way. Pay the better player. I’m not saying overpay Reddick but offer him fair deal rather than settling for Golden.
The Giants overpaid Golden and look what that got them.

Markus Golden got a 1-year, $3.75 million contract that ended up being worth $4.75 mil based on incentives from the Giants. Only $2.25 million was guaranteed on that deal.

For that they got 16 starts, 10 sacks, 13 tackles for loss, and 27 QB hits.

Wildly, that earned him almost no interest in the open market, and he signed another version of the contract last May.

 

[TJ]

10 mio for Reddick okay, a good 4 year deal that pays him less than 10 this year and later more would be nice. But than you have already most of our money spent.

I don’t think he takes it, but this would be fair compensation, tbh

 

[Solar7]

Also, you HAVE to get either a top CB OR a top WR.

Unfortunately there won't be any top CBs. But I get the rest of your point.

 

[cardpa]

It all depends on the plan.

(This is going to have a bunch of "if's" in it)

IF Reddick is not willing to take a 10 mil or less deal, I get letting him go and think it is a justifiable move.

IF that happens, Golden gets locked in at probably 4 to 5 mil.

IF Reddick walks you HAVE to be able to put that money towards a top offensive linemen like Scherff or Thuney or Linsley. HAVE TO.

Also, you HAVE to get either a top CB OR a top WR.

This way you can enter the draft being able to pick an EDGE player in round 1. Ojulari, Ossai, Rousseau, Parsons (who I feel is actually more of a small EDGE player), or my personal favorite Oweh. All are pretty good fits at 16 in terms of need and value in this scenario.

I just took a look at Spotrac and they have Golden's Free Agent value at $13.5 million per year or 4 years for $54 million. Doesn't sound like he is gettable at $4 to $5 million. Not sure what other sited have him pegged at.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/markus-golden-16782/market-value/

 

[Chopper0080]

Unfortunately there won't be any top CBs. But I get the rest of your point.

Ronald Darby is fine. Shaq Griffin is fine.

The problem with Peterson was that he is a man CB whose skills are deteriorating and he struggles in zone. Expect significantly more zone from the Cardinals if they are without Peterson which works better for their talent TBH.

 

[Chopper0080]

I just took a look at Spotrac and they have Golden's Free Agent value at $13.5 million per year or 4 years for $54 million. Doesn't sound like he is gettable at $4 to $5 million. Not sure what other sited have him pegged at.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/markus-golden-16782/market-value/

Yeah...spotrac and OTC's market value numbers are kinda like PFF's OL grades. When the numbers don't match your eyes, the numbers are wrong.

Markus Golden is not going to make more money per year vs any other year in his entire career in a down market, deep in EDGE rushers, and at 29 years old.

He had 4.5 sacks...those aren't the numbers that get pass rushers 13.5 mil per year at 29. Also, he is probably between the 10th and 15th best EDGE player in this FA class. It is not happening.

 

[Solar7]

Ronald Darby is fine. Shaq Griffin is fine.

The problem with Peterson was that he is a man CB whose skills are deteriorating and he struggles in zone. Expect significantly more zone from the Cardinals if they are without Peterson which works better for their talent TBH.

Ronald "about to be on his 4th team" Darby, who had zero picks last year and gave up more yardage than Peterson?

Shaq Griffin who played for the 2nd worst pass defense in the league, one that was on pace to shatter the record for most yards allowed? Who gave up only 20 less yards and one more TD than Pat P despite playing in 4 less games?

Sorry, neither of those guys are "fine" as our #1 CB if we want to improve, not in my book.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Not me. Reddick gets the tag and we never look back. I'm sure we really want PP back and he wants to be back, we can work our a regular contract. A lot of people here want to move on anyway...

We need 2 CBs better than last year's version of PP. If there is one better in FA, I say get him, then draft the best we can get in Rs 1/2. By the way, how far down the CB draft rankings could we go and get one = or > PP?

Could either Bobby Brown, A&M, or that Osa kid from ucla be good enough for the edge player we need this year. We could probably get one of them in R 5, aye?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Markus Golden got a 1-year, $3.75 million contract that ended up being worth $4.75 mil based on incentives from the Giants. Only $2.25 million was guaranteed on that deal.

For that they got 16 starts, 10 sacks, 13 tackles for loss, and 27 QB hits.

Wildly, that earned him almost no interest in the open market, and he signed another version of the contract last May.

I had thought he signed for about 10mill after his good season.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We need 2 CBs better than last year's version of PP. If there is one better in FA, I say get him, then draft the best we can get in Rs 1/2. By the way, how far down the CB draft rankings could we go and get one = or > PP?

Could either Bobby Brown, A&M, or that Osa kid from ucla be good enough for the edge player we need this year. We could probably get one of them in R 5, aye?

Exactly. So why are we concerned about possibly giving the tag to PP? He isn't worth it anymore.

 

[GatorAZ]

We’re stuck needing him not all that different from DJ’s situation last year. I said I would’ve overpaid DJ to see if he could produce two years in a row and I feel the same way about Reddick. If he can prove it two years in a row I can live with paying him big $ the following offseason. Of course they did the opposite with DJ and it looks like a wise extension. I’m guessing transition tag.

 

[GuernseyCard]

We’re stuck needing him not all that different from DJ’s situation last year. I said I would’ve overpaid DJ to see if he could produce two years in a row and I feel the same way about Reddick. If he can prove it two years in a row I can live with paying him big $ the following offseason. Of course they did the opposite with DJ and it looks like a wise extension. I’m guessing transition tag.

Yes. Transition Tag but I wouldn't be surprised to see them use the time available to negotiate a longer-term agreement and lower his 2021 cap hit.