Have you seen this?

[Makeplays]

Hey All!

I'm new to this forum so go easy on me.

Man, I really have to get something off my chest.

Why oh why does Steve Nash double down and cheat away from his guy every time the ball goes down low or swings away from him?

Am I the only guy who see's this? I mean it drives me nuts. He's always out o' position and gives up the J. If you haven't noticed, take a look @ the next game and it will drive you nuts.

I would understand if doubling down lead to jarring the ball loose a couple of times a game, but seriously why double down on Biedrins? Are you serious?

This is a defensive liability and one of the reasons why we are always out of position every honking game!!

Comments?

PS Glad to be here!

 

[dodie53]

nash has the mentality to always help his teammates (his an assist man),
even on defense.

 

[Makeplays]

nash has the mentality to always help his teammates (his an assist man),
even on defense.

I totally understand he does. And he is a great player. But he is really out o' position every game. In my opinion, you don't double down on a center that has no offensive skills.

 

[elindholm]

Seriously, what's with all the new anti-Nash trolls? Has Cuban hired a bunch of new interns?

 

[Makeplays]

Seriously, what's with all the new anti-Nash trolls? Has Cuban hired a bunch of new interns?

When you play like a mid tier player and you have star status you're not immune to taking criticism. So me questioning Nash makes me a troll? Nice to meet you too!

 

[elindholm]

When you play like a mid tier player and you have star status you're not immune to taking criticism. So me questioning Nash makes me a troll? Nice to meet you too!

Cha-ching, you made your twelve bucks this hour! Now go ask Mark if you can take a bathroom break.

 

[Makeplays]

Cha-ching, you made your twelve bucks this hour! Now go ask Mark if you can take a bathroom break.

What the hell are you talking about? I think YOU'VE been trolling around here too long. You're pretty delusional.

If you can't handle criticisms on a Phoenix Suns forum with a Phoenix Suns team in the doldrums then maybe you should step away for a bit.

But what do I know? I work for Mark Cuban...whatever that means.

Thanks for the entertainment.

 

[nowagimp]

Hey All!

I'm new to this forum so go easy on me.

Man, I really have to get something off my chest.

Why oh why does Steve Nash double down and cheat away from his guy every time the ball goes down low or swings away from him?

Because he has played 4 years with amare down there? Maybe its a porter strategy to limit fouls ont he suns foul prone big men. I dont recall this last year when DA was coach (the doubleteam help on shaq). I also think its stupid, and I see nash following the ball around on defense way too much. Exactly why does the defensive weak link chase the ball on defense? I just dont recall this AT ALL with DA.

 

[nowagimp]

One thing I have noticed is that with the porter defense, screens just free up the opponents shooter so easily it makes me want to puke. Doesnt anybody fight through screens anymore? These kinds of defensive tangibles are completely absent on this team. Good defenders are tough to screen, not "easy as pie".

 

[Covert Rain]

To be honest Steve Nash doubling down is not a primary concern of mine. It's Steve Nash leading the league in Turnovers Per game at the guard position. It's Steve Nash being #2 overall in the NBA in turnovers. What concerns me more is Steve Nash being one of the top 10 worst defensive guards in the league.

Honestly, how can you play defense with no defensive skills and turning the ball over which leads to a ton of easy baskets???

You need to be 4 starters strong on defense to hide Steve's inept defense. Then he also needs to get turnover in control. If your not going to do that, you might as well trade him.

 

[elindholm]

I think YOU'VE been trolling around here too long.

Wait, are you new to the board or not? In your first post you said you were new, and now you claim to have an impression of what I've been doing for "too long."

If you've been lurking for any amount of time, you would know that people on this board comment on Nash's defensive deficiencies, including the very issue you pointed out, constantly. It is a known issue.

Since, in your opening post, you professed to know nothing of any previous discussion here, the only possibilities are that you are (a) brand new, (b) dense, or (c) stirring the pot just for a kick. You seem pretty well in control of the language, so we'll rule out (b). It took you only four posts to call someone out for what they've been doing "too long" and to get self-righteous with your own interpretation of the board's mission, so we can rule out (a). That leaves only one option.

You are invited to point out any flaws you detect in my analysis.

 

[nowagimp]

To be honest Steve Nash doubling down is not a primary concern of mine. It's Steve Nash leading the league in Turnovers Per game at the guard position. It's Steve Nash being #2 overall in the NBA in turnovers. What concerns me more is Steve Nash being one of the top 10 worst defensive guards in the league.

Honestly, how can you play defense with no defensive skills and turning the ball over which leads to a ton of easy baskets???

You need to be 4 starters strong on defense to hide Steve's inept defense. Then he also needs to get turnover in control. If your not going to do that, you might as well trade him.

Yeah steve nash is a bad defender, but he wasnt guarding stephen jackson last night, or brandel Roy when he dropped the NBA season high of 52 points on the suns heads. You cant blame steve nash for the warriors going inside on the suns and getting all those easy baskets. $ strong on defense isnt necessary to hide nash, but the suns have only 1 defender that doesnt have glaring weaknesses(Hill). With that defense you cant cover anyone on help, nobody.


On offense, the league is starting to find ways to stop the shaq on the low block game. They now bring doubleteam schemes and try to take away his passing lanes, and while this has occured shaqs asst/min numbers have dropped to a lower level. The suns coaching staff needs to figure out how to counter and punish those double teams without turning the ball over, its not rocket science. If they keep up with the same stupid game plan, being too predictable going down low, the turnovers will stay high. They need to puinish the use of all those defenders in the lane area. Unfortunately matt barnes has apparently become a mason, his is a disaster area as a shooter. The suns roster doesnt have proven shooters to play in place of barnes, a "kerrduh"! Barnes is a good value at the min, but he is not and has never been a proven consistent perimeter shooter, just a streaky one.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

:

Wait, are you new to the board or not? In your first post you said you were new, and now you claim to have an impression of what I've been doing for "too long."

If you've been lurking for any amount of time, you would know that people on this board comment on Nash's defensive deficiencies, including the very issue you pointed out, constantly. It is a known issue.

Since, in your opening post, you professed to know nothing of any previous discussion here, the only possibilities are that you are (a) brand new, (b) dense, or (c) stirring the pot just for a kick. You seem pretty well in control of the language, so we'll rule out (b). It took you only four posts to call someone out for what they've been doing "too long" and to get self-righteous with your own interpretation of the board's mission, so we can rule out (a). That leaves only one option.

You are invited to point out any flaws you detect in my analysis.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah steve nash is a bad defender, but he wasnt guarding stephen jackson last night, or brandel Roy when he dropped the NBA season high of 52 points on the suns heads. You cant blame steve nash for the warriors going inside on the suns and getting all those easy baskets. $ strong on defense isnt necessary to hide nash, but the suns have only 1 defender that doesnt have glaring weaknesses(Hill). With that defense you cant cover anyone on help, nobody.

Night in and night out Nash is bad. Statistically he is the 8th worst defending guard in the league. For every example you site is not his fault, I can give you about 5 that were.

Shaq has improved this team from being dead last in the NBA in defense of the Center (pre Shaq trade) to position to #15. That is no insignificant feat.

I guarantee you bring in a PF, who can defend and rebound better then Amare, you will see an instant improvement on this team. At the very least if you did that things would probably improve.

However, there is no way you keep Steve Nash and his turnover rate without significantly improving the rest of the defense on this team. There just is no point.

 

[Makeplays]

Wait, are you new to the board or not? In your first post you said you were new, and now you claim to have an impression of what I've been doing for "too long."

If you've been lurking for any amount of time, you would know that people on this board comment on Nash's defensive deficiencies, including the very issue you pointed out, constantly. It is a known issue.

Since, in your opening post, you professed to know nothing of any previous discussion here, the only possibilities are that you are (a) brand new, (b) dense, or (c) stirring the pot just for a kick. You seem pretty well in control of the language, so we'll rule out (b). It took you only four posts to call someone out for what they've been doing "too long" and to get self-righteous with your own interpretation of the board's mission, so we can rule out (a). That leaves only one option.

You are invited to point out any flaws you detect in my analysis.

Seriously. I am new to the board. I'm just making an observation. That's all.

You called me a troll and an agent for Cuban how else should I respond?

Lets start all over. I don't wanna argue with ya. I just think Nash is out of position a lot in games. It happened last year and the year before.

Me and my buddies are always wondering why mediocre guards play the suns and seem to have career games every time.

 

[elindholm]

Me and my buddies are always wondering why mediocre guards play the suns and seem to have career games every time.

Partly because Nash is a poor defender, partly because the Suns' help defense is the worst in the history of the NBA, and partly because Porter's defensive schemes seem designed to get opposing players wide-open looks from their favorite spots on the floor.

 

[Griffin]

However, there is no way you keep Steve Nash and his turnover rate

Nash's turnovers per game are 0.2 higher than last year and same as two years ago at 3.8. Yet the team as a whole turns the ball over 2 more times per game (from 14th worst to 2nd worst in the league) at 15.9 this year. The main problem is not Nash's turnovers. Plug in just about any other point guard into his role and turnovers will go up still. He is the primary ball handler and plays heavy minutes, so he will lead the team in turnovers. The difference this year is bad spacing on offense, players not paying attention, not expecting the ball, etc. Also there are tons of unforced turnovers from players like Barnes who try to make passes that they are not accustomed to making.

 

[nowagimp]

Partly because Nash is a poor defender, partly because the Suns' help defense is the worst in the history of the NBA, and partly because Porter's defensive schemes seem designed to get opposing players wide-open looks from their favorite spots on the floor.

Bingo, bingo and bingo. Nash is the suns worst weakness defensively, the help defense is the worst I have ever seen in the NBA, and in porters plan to protect our big man foul machines(amare, shaq), we tempt the opposition to take wide open looks and they shoot lights out on many nights. On some nights the suns let these guys shoot uncontested from the foul line. We didnt allow that in high school, disgusting. If this team is a surs makeover, its only in appearance as the spurs goal is to contest all shots. Watching hill watch(not defend) stephen jackson shoot, I got the distinct feeling he knew he was playing with fire, but that apparently was the plan.

 

[Makeplays]

Partly because Nash is a poor defender, partly because the Suns' help defense is the worst in the history of the NBA, and partly because Porter's defensive schemes seem designed to get opposing players wide-open looks from their favorite spots on the floor.

Yes indeed. I would like to see true man to man and no double downs and have the center or 3 or 4 beat the suns. Not jump shots.

Seriously, you tube the suns defense and watch him cheat far away from his guy

 

[elindholm]

Seriously, you tube the suns defense and watch him cheat far away from his guy

Why would I need YouTube? I watch dozens of games a year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nash's turnovers per game are 0.2 higher than last year and same as two years ago at 3.8. Yet the team as a whole turns the ball over 2 more times per game (from 14th worst to 2nd worst in the league) at 15.9 this year. The main problem is not Nash's turnovers. Plug in just about any other point guard into his role and turnovers will go up still. He is the primary ball handler and plays heavy minutes, so he will lead the team in turnovers. The difference this year is bad spacing on offense, players not paying attention, not expecting the ball, etc. Also there are tons of unforced turnovers from players like Barnes who try to make passes that they are not accustomed to making.

Nash's turnovers have always been a problem. The big difference is we had guys around him who took care of the ball extremely well. You surround Nash with guys with average hands it only exposes Nash's turnover rate.

This is not about Nash's assist to turnover ratio because he obviously makes up for many turnovers.

What this is about is that if this team ever hopes to win a title, they need to get better defensively. When you have a guard who is defensively weak and provides numerous easy buckets off of turnovers to the other team....you will be hard pressed to turn the Suns into a defensive oriented team.

Now factor in that we are the 9th worst in the NBA at defending form the Power Forward position (thank you Amare). How the heck can this team get better without changing the PF and PG positions????

 

[Makeplays]

Nash's turnovers have always been a problem. The big difference is we had guys around him who took care of the ball extremely well. You surround Nash with guys with average hands it only exposes Nash's turnover rate.

This is not about Nash's assist to turnover ratio because he obviously makes up for many turnovers.

What this is about is that if this team every hopes to win a title, they need to get better defensively. When you have a guard who is defensively weak and provides numerous easy buckets off of turnovers....you will be hard pressed to turn the Suns into a defensive oriented team.

Now factor in that we are the 9th worst in the NBA at defending form the Power Forward position. How the heck can this team get better without changing the PF and PG positions????

yep it has to be the coach and culture...

 

[shazaam6]

Partly because Nash is a poor defender, partly because the Suns' help defense is the worst in the history of the NBA, and partly because Porter's defensive schemes seem designed to get opposing players wide-open looks from their favorite spots on the floor.

Sad but true.

Makeplays I say the same thing about the Suns defense. They have been leaving someone open for years. Wide open jumpers is one of the "preferred" outcomes we force the other teams into with our "help" defense.

Nash isn't the only one who needs to stick to his man. I would like to see no double teams. (except on Kobe and LeBron) Just to see how badly we get burned. Is a wide open jumper harder to shoot than a jumper with a hand up because you never left your guy open?

Bottom line. Man up on defense and stop wandering---mentally and physically.

 

[Makeplays]

Sad but true.

Makeplays I say the same thing about the Suns defense. They have been leaving someone open for years. Wide open jumpers is one of the "preferred" outcomes we force the other teams into with our "help" defense.

Nash isn't the only one who needs to stick to his man. I would like to see no double teams. (except on Kobe and LeBron) Just to see how badly we get burned. Is a wide open jumper harder to shoot than a jumper with a hand up because you never left your guy open?

Bottom line. Man up on defense and stop wandering---mentally and physically.

Thank you bro. Straight up defense requires grit and being the guy who basically molests you on the court even when you don't have the ball. Why can't the thinking minds of the Suns mngt see this?

 

[Makeplays]

Bingo, bingo and bingo. Nash is the suns worst weakness defensively, the help defense is the worst I have ever seen in the NBA, and in porters plan to protect our big man foul machines(amare, shaq), we tempt the opposition to take wide open looks and they shoot lights out on many nights. On some nights the suns let these guys shoot uncontested from the foul line. We didnt allow that in high school, disgusting. If this team is a surs makeover, its only in appearance as the spurs goal is to contest all shots. Watching hill watch(not defend) stephen jackson shoot, I got the distinct feeling he knew he was playing with fire, but that apparently was the plan.

Have you noticed that the spurs won't even let a "called off" continuation shot not even make it through the cylinder? They jump and goal tend it right out the cylinder. That is their culture.

If you realize that wide open J's are not even acceptable @ the H.S level, why doesn't Porter, Nash and Kerr realize that this is the gaping hole on the port side of the USS Phoenix Suns?