Heroes and Goats: WAS @ ARI

[Chopper0080]

Not signing an aging Campbell and paying him $17.5M a year was the right decision for the Cardinals at the time. Signing Gresham for $8M a year was the wrong decision. The Cardinals won't be able to cut Gresham till next season.

We will disagree on this it seems. Having Campbell to play base DE would have been great for this defense, just like it is for the Jags. Great players impact the games. fringe FA players generally do not.

The money is a joke. What does the 17.5 this year and 14.5 next year cost us? Bucannon this year at 8.7 mil? Gresham's cap hit of 7.2 mil this year and 8.25 next year. Maybe we have to structure a contract a little differently for 2018. All we did is overpay for multiple replaceable players instead of overpaying for an irreplaceable player. Oh darn, we can't pay our kicker 3.5 mil. We can't give Sam Bradford 10 mil this season.

 

[kerouac9]

Not signing an aging Campbell and paying him $17.5M a year was the right decision for the Cardinals at the time. Signing Gresham for $8M a year was the wrong decision. The Cardinals won't be able to cut Gresham till next season.

I hope we win the cap management trophy at the end of the year.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We will disagree on this it seems. Having Campbell to play base DE would have been great for this defense, just like it is for the Jags. Great players impact the games. fringe FA players generally do not.

The money is a joke. What does the 17.5 this year and 14.5 next year cost us? Bucannon this year at 8.7 mil? Gresham's cap hit of 7.2 mil this year and 8.25 next year. Maybe we have to structure a contract a little differently for 2018. All we did is overpay for multiple replaceable players instead of overpaying for an irreplaceable player. Oh darn, we can't pay our kicker 3.5 mil. We can't give Sam Bradford 10 mil this season.

Perhaps... or, maybe the team didn't want to get locked into the deal beyond 2018. Calais was never gonna take a 1 year contract and I think it should be interesting to see how he holds up this year (FWIW, I am a HUGE CC fan!). Deone is likely gone after this season, and same for Gresham. As I see it, the team did what they did to add to their options in 2019.

 

[kerouac9]

Perhaps... or, maybe the team didn't want to get locked into the deal beyond 2018. Calais was never gonna take a 1 year contract and I think it should be interesting to see how he holds up this year (FWIW, I am a HUGE CC fan!). Deone is likely gone after this season, and same for Gresham. As I see it, the team did what they did to add to their options in 2019.

The Jags can release Campbell after this season, free up $9 million in cap room, and only carry $5M in dead money.

 

[MadCardDisease]

We will disagree on this it seems. Having Campbell to play base DE would have been great for this defense, just like it is for the Jags. Great players impact the games. fringe FA players generally do not.

The money is a joke. What does the 17.5 this year and 14.5 next year cost us? Bucannon this year at 8.7 mil? Gresham's cap hit of 7.2 mil this year and 8.25 next year. Maybe we have to structure a contract a little differently for 2018. All we did is overpay for multiple replaceable players instead of overpaying for an irreplaceable player. Oh darn, we can't pay our kicker 3.5 mil. We can't give Sam Bradford 10 mil this season.

The defense played just fine without Campbell last year.

Sure if the Cardinals knew that they were moving to a 4-3 two years down the road it would be nice to have CC at DE this year. However if you are going with a youth movement and rebuilding, where does a 32 year old DE making $17.5M a year fit in?

 

[kerouac9]

The defense played just fine without Campbell last year.

Sure if the Cardinals knew that they were moving to a 4-3 two years down the road it would be nice to have CC at DE this year. However if you are going with a youth movement and rebuilding, where does a 32 year old DE making $17.5M a year fit in?

The Pro Bowl, I guess.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The Pro Bowl, I guess.

So you are saying that if CC was currently on the Cardinals they would be a Super Bowl Contender right now.

 

[kerouac9]

So you are saying that if CC was currently on the Cardinals they would be a Super Bowl Contender right now.

I don't know. I'm guessing we'd be better than we are right now. It's difficult to think that Wilk's "scheme" requires bad players along the DL.

 

[MadCardDisease]

We can't give Sam Bradford 10 mil this season.

Lets not forget that the Cardinals very aggressively went after Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins in FA before ending up with Bradford the bridesmaid. The reason they were able to be as aggressive for those players is that they had money saved from not re-signing players like CC, Jefferson, and Swearinger.

The Cardinals knew that they would eventually need a starting QB to replace Palmer. That is the biggest reason CC isn't on the roster today. The Cardinals already had Jones, Peters and Golden on the roster. CC was a luxury and QB was a bigger need.

 

[kerouac9]

Lets not forget that the Cardinals very aggressively went after Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins in FA before ending up with Bradford the bridesmaid. The reason they were able to be as aggressive for those players is that they had money saved from not re-signing players like CC, Jefferson, and Swearinger.

The Cardinals knew that they would eventually need a starting QB to replace Palmer. That is the biggest reason CC isn't on the roster today. The Cardinals already had Jones, Peters and Golden on the roster. CC was a luxury and QB was a bigger need.

Alex Smith wasn't a free agent. He was traded before offseason even officially began. He was traded eight days after Steve Wilks was hired.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Alex Smith wasn't a free agent. He was traded before offseason even officially began. He was traded eight days after Steve Wilks was hired.

As a part of the trade Alex Smith signed a 4 year $94M contract extension.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/1...y-chiefs-washington-redskins-contract-details

 

[kerouac9]

As a part of the trade Alex Smith signed a 4 year $94M contract extension.

https://www.thephinsider.com/2018/1...y-chiefs-washington-redskins-contract-details

Okay. What does that have to do with him being traded?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Okay. What does that have to do with him being traded?

LOL... you're being overly obtuse. That's funny.

 

[kerouac9]

Okay, so as far as I can tell there were stories like this floating around after the Chiefs were eliminated from the playoffs, but there's nothing to suggest that the Cards "very aggressively went after" Alex Smith two months before the new league year began.

 

[Chopper0080]

So you are saying that if CC was currently on the Cardinals they would be a Super Bowl Contender right now.

I am saying that I wouldn't have to hear about he Cardinals needing to build up their defensive lines. I wouldn't be hearing about Benson Mayowa starting at DE. OR that the Cardinals hopes and dreams at the 3T are tied to Robert Nkemdiche. How about Corey Peters being our second best defensive linemen.

It's different from the Khalil Mack situation, but not too far from it. We made a decision to not pay our Pro Bowl defensive linemen and now are talking about using a first round pick to draft a defensive linemen who hopefully turns into a pro bowler.

 

[Chopper0080]

The main point is that we totally had the ability to pay Calais Campbell, but the organization chose not to. Now we have threads about how poor the defensive front 7 play is. This is what happens when an organization goes cheap on top level players.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The main point is that we totally had the ability to pay Calais Campbell, but the organization chose not to. Now we have threads about how poor the defensive front 7 play is. This is what happens when an organization goes cheap on top level players.

Hindsight is beautifully 20/20, heh?

Do you think Keim knew we would be going to a 4-3 when the CC decision was made? And, I would imagine that even if he did know it, I don't think he would've changed his plan.

 

[TJ]

Unless Calais was willing to take a significant hometown discount, the team wasn't going to be able to re-sign him. Unsure why people keep ruminating over this.

 

[Chopper0080]

Unless Calais was willing to take a significant hometown discount, the team wasn't going to be able to re-sign him. Unsure why people keep ruminating over this.

Because that is a false statement. We chose not to re-sign him. We could have, and we would have been fine with the cap, but we chose not to.

 

[Chopper0080]

Hindsight is beautifully 20/20, heh?

Do you think Keim knew we would be going to a 4-3 when the CC decision was made? And, I would imagine that even if he did know it, I don't think he would've changed his plan.

Are you insinuating now that Calais Campbell was not impactful as a 3-4 DE? Because that is completely false. The Jags signed him as a 3-4 DE and moved him because they were so impressed with his play. We knew exactly what he was and the professional he is, and we wanted to haggle over money. Now we are talking about potentially using a top 10 draft pick on a defensive linemen because we need to build up the lines.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Are you insinuating now that Calais Campbell was not impactful as a 3-4 DE? Because that is completely false. The Jags signed him as a 3-4 DE and moved him because they were so impressed with his play. We knew exactly what he was and the professional he is, and we wanted to haggle over money. Now we are talking about potentially using a top 10 draft pick on a defensive linemen because we need to build up the lines.

Not at all. CC was incredibly productive in the 3-4. I think we've been suggesting that he would be equally, if not more productive in the 4-3.
Anyway, we may very well be thinking about using a first round pick on a d-lineman...though, isn't Keim a best player available guy? Who knows how that will shake out and who knows how it would've played out even had the Cards kept CC who will be 33 years old entering the 2019 season.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not at all. CC was incredibly productive in the 3-4. I think we've been suggesting that he would be equally, if not more productive in the 4-3.
Anyway, we may very well be thinking about using a first round pick on a d-lineman...though, isn't Keim a best player available guy? Who knows how that will shake out and who knows how it would've played out even had the Cards kept CC who will be 33 years old entering the 2019 season.

Of course we know how it would have went. He would have been a top end player on our team. We would have had more depth along whatever defensive line that we would have been employing. We would have been fine in terms of our salary cap. We would have been able to cut him after this season and only incur 5 mil in dead space in doing so.

It isn't hindsight. It is foresight, and our front office doesn't seem to have much of it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It isn't hindsight. It is foresight, and our front office doesn't seem to have much of it.

Locking up DJ & PP would suggest they have a bit of foresight... And they tied with Badger and got out of that deal with minimal damage IIRC.
Seriously though, what do you really expect from this team this year? Knowing that we had Bradford at QB with a rookie as the backup, and no legit #2 WR... if had kept CC, what would you expect? For me, I fully expected a sub-par year this season. Even if we had kept Calais, I still would've pegged this team to miss the post season...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Unless Calais was willing to take a significant hometown discount, the team wasn't going to be able to re-sign him. Unsure why people keep ruminating over this.

unsure why you keep ignoring that if the team simply gave Calais Gresham's money, they could have afforded him.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Can someone direct me to all the 'pay the man' posts going in FA and the subsequent complaints that the Cards should have paid Calais the coin rec'd from the Jags.

Seem to recall that most thought $8 to $10m over 3 years was a good offer, no more.