Heroes and Goats: WAS @ ARI

[MadCardDisease]

unsure why you keep ignoring that if the team simply gave Calais Gresham's money, they could have afforded him.

You still would have to pay a TE then and the going rate for an average TE was around $4-6M per year that offseason. Not sure how you can turn $2-3M into $15M?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Can someone direct me to all the 'pay the man' posts going in FA and the subsequent complaints that the Cards should have paid Calais the coin rec'd from the Jags.

Seem to recall that most thought $8 to $10m over 3 years was a good offer, no more.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/cc-to-the-jaguars.247522/page-5#post-3474875

Cardinals would have been stupid to match an offer like that. You don't get better losing a player like Campbell, but it doesn't mean it wasn't smart to let someone else pay him that contract.

Good luck to him.

 

[cardpa]

I thought it was a mistake not to resign CC and I still stand by that. I wonder how different the Dline would be if you still had CC here and OCs had to account for him? I think that is something people are forgetting. CC commanding double team blocking means others on the Dline are getting one on one blocking.

 

[Cardiac]

I'm pretty sure I was on the we couldn't/shouldn't sign CC to that huge contract, I was wrong. Think about the Rams Dline and if we had CC we would be on or near the same level.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You still would have to pay a TE then and the going rate for an average TE was around $4-6M per year that offseason. Not sure how you can turn $2-3M into $15M?

Actually, we wouldn't have had to. Reports were we were looking at giving Campbell 10 per year, right? If you give 4 of Gresham's to Campbell (14 per is what he got) you have on of the best DE in football locked up and considering how much of a waste of space Gresham is (and WAS back then), you can't tell me you couldn't replace his production or lack thereof with 3 million bucks, or if need be, find another million bucks to free up to get one of those guys you mentioned above.

I don't know how people are arguing this whether they made the call or not back in the day. The Jags had enough foresight to see how valuable Campbell would be, the Cardinals didn't and instead spent big money on a guy who produced next to nothing but headaches from stupid personal foul penalties at a position that wasn't even valued in Arians' system.

 

[cardncubfan]

Hindsight is always 20/20. If CC would have fallen off the map there would be a bunch of I told you so's. I guess you have that no matter what happens.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hindsight is always 20/20. If CC would have fallen off the map there would be a bunch of I told you so's. I guess you have that no matter what happens.

sorry... this just isn't true. A guy who's averaged 400 yards and 4 TDs per season over the course of his entire career is NOT a good TE by any stretch. He's ok... not much more, not much less. He'll make some big plays... he'll drop some big plays and he'll bring some toughness... with a side of stupidity that costs us with head-scratching personal fouls. Even saying he's solid is being generous. He's a guy, IMO... and giving that guy 6 million bucks seems like a lot when you look at what that 6 million could have gone toward if we lose CC.

That was my post from BEFORE we lost CC. It ain't hindsight when you're saying it AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED.

And even if others are using hindsight... isn't that how you're supposed to judge if your GM is making the right moves? You know... by seeing if they actually worked?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Actually, we wouldn't have had to. Reports were we were looking at giving Campbell 10 per year, right? If you give 4 of Gresham's to Campbell (14 per is what he got) you have on of the best DE in football locked up and considering how much of a waste of space Gresham is (and WAS back then), you can't tell me you couldn't replace his production or lack thereof with 3 million bucks, or if need be, find another million bucks to free up to get one of those guys you mentioned above.

I don't know how people are arguing this whether they made the call or not back in the day. The Jags had enough foresight to see how valuable Campbell would be, the Cardinals didn't and instead spent big money on a guy who produced next to nothing but headaches from stupid personal foul penalties at a position that wasn't even valued in Arians' system.

Even you thought that amount of money for Campbell was crazy back then.

Lets say the Cardinals signed Campbell to the same contract that the Jags did. CC would have the Highest cap hit for the Cardinals this year as a 32 year old DE ($17.5M). The Cardinals would have zero money to sign a starting QB with no guarantees of drafting a good QB in the draft and no QBs on the roster.

Then CC would be the second highest paid player on the Cardinals as a 33 and 34 year old in the following two years(2019, 2020). That is completely insane. There is no way the Cardinals invest that amount of money into an aging DE.

CC worked out for the Jags because they have such a young defense. His leadership was exactly what they needed and they had the cap space at the time to over pay for him. When all of their young studs on defense start coming up for contract Extensions, sadly CC will be the first to go.

 

[MadCardDisease]

That was my post from BEFORE we lost CC. It ain't hindsight when you're saying it AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED.

But this is what you said when it did happen:

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3474430/

And that was when it was thought to only be $14M per year. Then we found out later it was actually $15M per year.

 

[cardncubfan]

That was my post from BEFORE we lost CC. It ain't hindsight when you're saying it AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED.

And even if others are using hindsight... isn't that how you're supposed to judge if your GM is making the right moves? You know... by seeing if they actually worked?

Did I say anything about you? Did I say anything that wasn't true?

 

[TJ]

unsure why you keep ignoring that if the team simply gave Calais Gresham's money, they could have afforded him.

Because Calais is making on avg 15 mil/season for four years. At the time, Jacksonville was considered to have overspent for him, and it still could haunt them in the backend if Father Time catches up to him.

Gresham, although grossly overpaid, is making ~7 mil/season.

The offer that Keim made to CC was between 10-11 mil/season for 3 years, IIRC. Denver was something like 13 mil/season for 4 years.

It literally was an either/or situation between CC and Jones. Unsure why people have selective amnesia about this situation because it was only discussed hourly on the board during the time.

 

[Chopper0080]

Locking up DJ & PP would suggest they have a bit of foresight... And they tied with Badger and got out of that deal with minimal damage IIRC.
Seriously though, what do you really expect from this team this year? Knowing that we had Bradford at QB with a rookie as the backup, and no legit #2 WR... if had kept CC, what would you expect? For me, I fully expected a sub-par year this season. Even if we had kept Calais, I still would've pegged this team to miss the post season...

Disagree...those were moves you had to make. Re-signing Patrick Peterson should be a given. You shouldn't get extra credit for that. Same with Chandler Jones.

 

[Cardiac]

Disagree...those were moves you had to make. Re-signing Patrick Peterson should be a given. You shouldn't get extra credit for that. Same with Chandler Jones.

But the Pats traded Jones because they knew he was going to make big bucks. K Mack gets traded instead of re-signed by the Raiders.

Yes PP and CJ were "givens" but not all teams make that happen so some credit goes to Keim and the Cards for getting them done. I can think of countless times "givens" weren't re-signed by this team, it went on for decades.